trimm Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Yes, you fear us. That's why you need us out of the way. Your coalition has someone already in mind for your next tiff, but you need us busy and out of the way for it. I don't know how the target is, but it's the only logical reason for you to need us locked down. It could even be someone among your own side. But there's definitely someone else who needs to be taken out and needs to be taken out while the NPO is.. pre-occupied. Wonder who it is.You're right, it is very pragmatic. So I wonder which ally or neutral menace the knife in the back is meant for. Or they need you out of the way for the very reasons I stated. You are the logical opponent, the head of a naturally oppositional power sphere, and the target of some serious grudges, both recent and long standing. So no, fear has little to do with it, and will have even less to do with it once you are done having teeth firmly kicked it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) Or they need you out of the way for the very reasons I stated. You are the logical opponent, the head of a naturally oppositional power sphere, and the target of some serious grudges, both recent and long standing. So no, fear has little to do with it, and will have even less to do with it once you are done having teeth firmly kicked it. Â You're not very bright are you? Of course we're currently the head of the oppositional power sphere.. but.. you want to keep us out of the way for a while, and that implies a motive a bit more than just wanting our teeth firmly kicked in. There's something more to this. Â So while our teeth are kicked in and we're busily trying to regrow them months down the road.. who else gets bit by the ones with teeth remaining? Someone is scheming beyond this war. Â The fact you don't seem to know implies 3 things. 1. As minister of finance of Argent you're not privy to the plan. 2. You're being blatantly naive not to give it away for Argent.. or 3. Argent doesn't know because it's potentially part of a target group or not intended to be involved. Edited January 31, 2014 by Maelstrom Vortex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daenerys Targaryen Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014  Umm.. fraid I don't mind control the leadership of other AAs... so no.. I nor the NPO have no control over who the coalition's next target will be. By the way you think we're all part of some semi-sentient collective scheming who we're going to trash next regardless as to which side we're on. I'm fairly certain it doesn't work that way. How do I know the ones arrayed against it? Deduction dear Watson. People are so predictable and their behaviors like telegraphs.  Sorry.. no. I don't think I want to steal any plays from NpO's playbook. Not that they aren't clever.. we just have.. stylistic differences. "When you play the game of thrones, you win or you die, There is no middle ground" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimm Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 You're not very bright are you? Of course we're currently the head of the oppositional power sphere.. but.. you want to keep us out of the way for a while, and that implies a motive a bit more than just wanting our teeth firmly kicked in. There's something more to this. Â So while our teeth are kicked in and we're busily trying to regrow them.. who else gets bit by the ones with teeth remaining? Let's try to keep this civil, shall we? You are the current head of the opposing sphere, and will continue to be so. Thus, it makes perfect sense to keep you knocked down for as long as possible. Secondly, you continue to overlook the very real fact that many of those seeking to impose terms upon you have very strong and persistant grudges against you. Which is also, in their minds, a pretty compelling reason to keep you down as long as possible. Given the generally fractious nature of coalitions here, I highly doubt there is some nefarious future plot going that extends beyond seeing NSO/NG/NPO get theirs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) Let's try to keep this civil, shall we? You are the current head of the opposing sphere, and will continue to be so. Thus, it makes perfect sense to keep you knocked down for as long as possible. Secondly, you continue to overlook the very real fact that many of those seeking to impose terms upon you have very strong and persistant grudges against you. Which is also, in their minds, a pretty compelling reason to keep you down as long as possible. Given the generally fractious nature of coalitions here, I highly doubt there is some nefarious future plot going that extends beyond seeing NSO/NG/NPO get theirs. Â I've been in this world a very long time. If you don't think that plot doesn't already exist.. you're not thinking far enough ahead. I give my more serious enemies.. some credit for having good heads on their shoulders. But it's good to know you willfully underestimate the danger of your own allies. Â Â "When you play the game of thrones, you win or you die, There is no middle ground" Â Death is but a door, time is but a window. What was will be, what is shall be no more. .... Â See? I can spout witticisms all day, but that hardly contributes to the discussion. Your rhetoric leaves your commentary empty and void of value. Edited January 31, 2014 by Maelstrom Vortex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimm Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 I've been in this world a very long time. If you don't think that plot doesn't already exist.. you're not thinking far enough ahead. Â I am far from new to this place, and I truly think you are giving the brain trust, if it can so be called, behind this coalition WAY too much credit if you really think their machinations extend at all beyond what I have described them as. To put it simply, NPO is almost certainly being offered these terms out of a pragmatic desire to neutralize you as a threat to the power sphere currently opposing you for awhile coupled with a more emotional need to settle some scores, and that is just about as far as anyone in opposition to you is carrying their thinking. The political acumen in combination with unity of purpose to do anything beyond that does not exist in either coalition participating here, if it has ever existed on Bob in the last 3 to 4 years or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 I am far from new to this place, and I truly think you are giving the brain trust, if it can so be called, behind this coalition WAY too much credit if you really think their machinations extend at all beyond what I have described them as. To put it simply, NPO is almost certainly being offered these terms out of a pragmatic desire to neutralize you as a threat to the power sphere currently opposing you for awhile coupled with a more emotional need to settle some scores, and that is just about as far as anyone in opposition to you is carrying their thinking. The political acumen in combination with unity of purpose to do anything beyond that does not exist in either coalition participating here, if it has ever existed on Bob in the last 3 to 4 years or so. With how many wars have targeted NPO lately, these terms offered to NPO seem more like an offer for them to voluntarily damage themselves to make it easier on whatever alliances are pushing these terms to put NPO in the same position where they need to accept terms in the next war against them again, then the next one after that, etc. If that is the case it makes much more sense for NPO to continue fighting until they are given a reasonable peace and damage their enemies as their NS goes down, instead of voluntarily reducing their strength as those opposing them rebuild for next time during that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 I am far from new to this place... Â Â I'm aware of that. However, you may also want to be aware that how you perceive it as a member of Argent may be intended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimm Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 With how many wars have targeted NPO lately, these terms offered to NPO seem more like an offer for them to voluntarily damage themselves to make it easier on whatever alliances are pushing these terms to put NPO in the same position where they need to accept terms in the next war against them again, then the next one after that, etc. If that is the case it makes much more sense for NPO to continue fighting until they are given a reasonable peace and damage their enemies as their NS goes down, instead of voluntarily reducing their strength as those opposing them rebuild for next time during that. Uh, what? The last war that targeted Pacifica directly was NPO/DH, and that is pretty frakking far from being lately. As much as folks want to spin these terms into some sort of grand conspiracy against Pacifica, it just is not the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daenerys Targaryen Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Death is but a door, time is but a window. What was will be, what is shall be no more. .... Â See? I can spout witticisms all day, but that hardly contributes to the discussion. Your rhetoric leaves your commentary empty and void of value. Â A discussion? I thought this was a lecture. I'll take my wisdom else where tyvm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Uh, what? The last war that targeted Pacifica directly was NPO/DH, and that is pretty frakking far from being lately. As much as folks want to spin these terms into some sort of grand conspiracy against Pacifica, it just is not the case. Its not very long ago in the time frame things happen in CN. The Karma War was a long time ago. The BiPolar War was more recent, but pretty far back. The Equillibrium War where NPO pushed for all their opponents to get white peace and the NPO/DH War, much more recent. All of these wars are much more recent than what certain alliances want to continuously punish NPO for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimm Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 I'm aware of that. However, you may also want to be aware that how you perceive it as a member of Argent may be intended. You might not be aware of this, but as long as I have been in Argent I have been a real outlier when it comes to the thinking on folks on our side of the web. I also know just how much credit the people leading the charge over on this side of the web deserve for smart thinking, because I had the misfortune to work with a good number of them for a long time. Truthfully, there is no fire behind the smoke you think you see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimm Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Its not very long ago in the time frame things happen in CN. The Karma War was a long time ago. The BiPolar War was more recent, but pretty far back. The Equillibrium War where NPO pushed for all their opponents to get white peace and the NPO/DH War, much more recent. All of these wars are much more recent than what certain alliances want to continuously punish NPO for. You have got to be joking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 You have got to be joking. Is there any other reason NPO deserves special punishment for coming to the assistance of an ally under attack than what they did pre-Karma War? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimm Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) Is there any other reason NPO deserves special punishment for coming to the assistance of an ally under attack than what they did pre-Karma War? Yes, multitudes of them which I have elucidated previously in this very same thread. ETA: Also, as I have previously mentioned, deserves has jack squat to do with anything. Politics. Edited January 31, 2014 by trimm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Yes, multitudes of them which I have elucidated previously in this very same thread. So many you didn't mention one of importance in response and instead direct people to read through 43 pages of mostly nonsense to maybe find what you're hinting at. All I need is one good reason to be convinced, not whatever nonsense reasons you don't think are even worth repeating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daenerys Targaryen Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 With how many wars have targeted NPO lately, these terms offered to NPO seem more like an offer for them to voluntarily damage themselves to make it easier on whatever alliances are pushing these terms to put NPO in the same position where they need to accept terms in the next war against them again, then the next one after that, etc. If that is the case it makes much more sense for NPO to continue fighting until they are given a reasonable peace and damage their enemies as their NS goes down, instead of voluntarily reducing their strength as those opposing them rebuild for next time during that. While continuing the war may be beneficial for the NPO, what about her allies? Some of these AA's getting rolled were just honoring treaties. NPO should bite the bullet, come to a agreement and relieve the pressure off their fellow coalition members. Overall, they're losing much more by prolonging this war. It wouldn't suprise me if some of their allies are already planning to move away from them after the wars all done and dusted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) Is there any other reason NPO deserves special punishment for coming to the assistance of an ally under attack than what they did pre-Karma War?Because despite pushing through a white peace they literally orchestrated it so that DH/TOP would....something.$%&@ if I even know what's going on.While continuing the war may be beneficial for the NPO, what about her allies? Some of these AA's getting rolled were just honoring treaties. NPO should bite the bullet, come to a agreement and relieve the pressure off their fellow coalition members. Overall, they're losing much more by prolonging this war. It wouldn't suprise me if some of their allies are already planning to move away from them after the wars all done and dusted.Anyone who's rolled over was rolled over before peace talks even began. TOP & co. made certain of that. Edited January 31, 2014 by Neo Uruk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurnipCruncher Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 While continuing the war may be beneficial for the NPO, what about her allies? Some of these AA's getting rolled were just honoring treaties. NPO should bite the bullet, come to a agreement and relieve the pressure off their fellow coalition members. Overall, they're losing much more by prolonging this war. It wouldn't suprise me if some of their allies are already planning to move away from them after the wars all done and dusted. NPO are getting screwed for honouring a treaty. Try again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) While continuing the war may be beneficial for the NPO, what about her allies? Some of these AA's getting rolled were just honoring treaties. NPO should bite the bullet, come to a agreement and relieve the pressure off their fellow coalition members. Overall, they're losing much more by prolonging this war. It wouldn't suprise me if some of their allies are already planning to move away from them after the wars all done and dusted. There are alliances on the Polar side who are mostly hiding in peace mode and struggling, its not just alliances on NPO's side who are having a tough time. We've already seen one alliance switch away from the Polar side, its not unreasonable to think things will continue to get worse for their coalition the longer this drags out as well. This fight isn't so one sided NPO should bend to whatever demands are made to save their allies from a little more fighting. Edited January 31, 2014 by Methrage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Kremlin Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) Is there any other reason NPO deserves special punishment for coming to the assistance of an ally under attack than what they did pre-Karma War? Â Deserve got nothing to do with it. Edited January 31, 2014 by Joe Kremlin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caladin Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) Karma is long passed and justifying your demanded terms of surrender by comparisons to what NPO demanded during the hegemony seems, from the perspective of an outsider, somewhat ludicrous.Of course, by this I don't mean to say that they are reasonable or unreasonable, just that the justification some are using for them is nuts. Edited January 31, 2014 by Caladin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Deserve got nothing to do with it. A fight to see who ends up on top, I can respect that I suppose. Although if deserve has nothing to do with it, if they fight long enough they should be able to get white peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daenerys Targaryen Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) Anyone who's rolled over was rolled over before peace talks even began. TOP & co. made certain of that. Except for NPO. Â NPO are getting screwed for honouring a treaty. Try again. They all are except NSO. My point is the NPO hold all the cards for their coalition since none will surrender until the NPO settle first. Â There are alliances on the Polar side who are mostly hiding in peace mode and struggling, its not just alliances on NPO's side who are having a tough time. We've already seen one alliance switch away from the Polar side, its not unreasonable to think things will continue to get worse for their coalition the longer this drags out as well. This fight isn't so one sided NPO should bend to whatever demands are made to save their allies from a little more fighting. But regardless the numbers are on the Polar side. They cant win. Â Edit: Unless Polar or TOP switches side then wont be much changing. Also all these alliances doing the rolling are all those most recently rolled. Polar in bipolar, XX in Grudge and Dave, TOP in Eq. If that counts for something being more battle hardened. Good to see them on the side doing the rolling this time. Edited January 31, 2014 by Daenerys Targaryen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurnipCruncher Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 It's all to do with DH/Karma/Eq/Politics/they deserve it/8 days or something. But don't go thinking NPO was in any way the actual target of this war. No. No way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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