a question of this war.

[Link Gaetz]

Dont be impatient. There are many more nukes to buy and launch before that point.

This.  It's not like we get a war this interesting around here more than once in a blue moon.  What's the rush for peace?

[Dochartaigh]

Just because someone declares war on your alliance does not give you property of their defensive war slots. The basis for AI's declaration was based on the false premises  that we were war slot filling because Admin deleted our wars.

 

Just because Umbrella has an internal policy does not mean they have any ownership over said slots as well mate. See, this cuts both ways. Something you are failing to realize. One day, I hope that a rogue attacks Umbrella, just to have his/her defensive war slots taken by many, many other alliances. Then we shall see what Umbrella truly thinks about this whole scenario. I should say that every alliance creates their own version of BIBO, just for that sole purpose.

[Caliph]

Just because Umbrella has an internal policy does not mean they have any ownership over said slots as well mate. See, this cuts both ways. Something you are failing to realize. One day, I hope that a rogue attacks Umbrella, just to have his/her defensive war slots taken by many, many other alliances. Then we shall see what Umbrella truly thinks about this whole scenario. I should say that every alliance creates their own version of BIBO, just for that sole purpose.

You don't understand what BIBO is then if you think random alliances declaring on a nation is at all related to BIBO.  Umbrella took Puppet's slots once and only once.  Not twice, not three times, but once.  When AI and friends attacked us of course we shifted focus away from Puppets and onto the much bigger threat  of Duckroll.

[IYIyTh]

Just because someone declares war on your alliance does not give you property of their defensive war slots. The basis for AI's declaration was based on the false premises  that we were war slot filling because Admin deleted our wars.

I hope you continue to think this in the future!

[Amossio]

Whatever happens slots were just a poor excuse for inevitable war that would have gone ahead despite the circumstance. Finally it happened, now we can all just get our nuclear frustrations over and come out of the war closet!

[Manis B]

just because an Umb rogue hit AI doesnt mean that NATO, TIO, and NPO cant hit you.

:v

[Vhalen]

I fail to see the morality discussion at hand when discussing. 

 

 

 

This pact is signed by a majority of Umbrella, just because other alliances and admin fail to recognize our pacts doesn't mean they don't exist. Therefor you are infringing on our rights to attack BIBO signatories. No where in the game is it required that you nuke people you are at war. If you want to debate whether or not Umbrella was slot filling go forth and accuse us of it I honestly don't care, but the facts are we will continue to enforce BIBO as we see fit even if our wars are continue-sly deleted under false premises. Until war slot filling is outlined and defined with a policy I will continue to inform you that Umbrella didn't do anything wrong regarding attacking Puppets since there is no policy to enforce with regards to the matter. By definition of a war as long as we inflict damage to Puppets in any form it is therefor a valid war.

 

If you want to actually turn this into a morality debate then the question at hand is as follows;

 

It's always wrong when the rogues previous alliance attacks said rogue.

OR

It's never wrong when the rogues previous alliance attacks said rogue. 

 

Edit: It doesn't vary by alliance since this is a morality debate. If this was an anthropological point of view then sure we could bring cultural variances brought by alliances into the debate.

 

The question at hand with war slot filling also hasn't been answered at all since we have yet to determine at what point a war stops becoming slot filling and starts becoming an actual war. Does it require one ground attack to be considered a war? Does it require two ground attacks to be considered a war? Does it require just one air attack to be considered a war? Or maybe two air attacks? Just because we may or may have not done the bare minimum when it comes to attacking Puppets doesn't make it an invalid war.

 

However this discussion is irrelevant with the current war since answering the problem wouldn't change the current outcome of what has already happened.

As far as this goes, I'm far enough removed that I don't really give a rat's posterior, but I presume it was considered slot filling because there weren't nukes in play?

 

Your quote about BIBO, which seems to have mysteriously disappeared from my quotomat, says: "Signatories of it agreed to receive nukes if they ever chose to leave Umbrella." Since you can't aid people nukes, this seems pretty clear. Am I missing something?

[Caliph]

As far as this goes, I'm far enough removed that I don't really give a rat's posterior, but I presume it was considered slot filling because there weren't nukes in play?

 

Your quote about BIBO, which seems to have mysteriously disappeared from my quotomat, says: "Signatories of it agreed to receive nukes if they ever chose to leave Umbrella." Since you can't aid people nukes, this seems pretty clear. Am I missing something?

 

Ya, the part where Duckroll countered those who hit Puppets and started a huge war.  Suddenly in the sceme of things Puppets was a much less threat than the whole of Duckroll and their coalition. 

[Tick1]

Just because Umbrella has an internal policy does not mean they have any ownership over said slots as well mate. See, this cuts both ways. Something you are failing to realize. One day, I hope that a rogue attacks Umbrella, just to have his/her defensive war slots taken by many, many other alliances. Then we shall see what Umbrella truly thinks about this whole scenario. I should say that every alliance creates their own version of BIBO, just for that sole purpose.

 

If we claimed ownership then we'd have declared war on AI and as far as I'm concerned defensive war slots are first come first serve. However the fact is you are just deflecting my point and refusing to see my argument at what it's worth. Seeing as I never claimed anyone had ownership over any slots and are just filling my mouth with random thoughts in your head.

Edited February 14, 2013 by Tick1

[Tick1]

As far as this goes, I'm far enough removed that I don't really give a rat's posterior, but I presume it was considered slot filling because there weren't nukes in play?

 

Your quote about BIBO, which seems to have mysteriously disappeared from my quotomat, says: "Signatories of it agreed to receive nukes if they ever chose to leave Umbrella." Since you can't aid people nukes, this seems pretty clear. Am I missing something?

 

We are not required to nuke BIBO signatories however we are allowed to use them if we see fit. 

[flak attack]

While the current hegemony is better than the previous, your assertions that the current one will be replaced with the previous one is ridiculous.

 

Q:

NPO - your side

IRON - your side

Sparta - your side

Gre- your side

MCXA - your side

MHA - your side

Valhalla - merged into AI, your side

NATO - your side

TPF- your side

OG - neutral and inactive

FOK - roughly merged into NG, our side

TOP - our side

 

1V:

NPO: your side

IRON: your side

GGA: disbanded

NpO: your side

MCXA: your side

 

 

The concept that they will be replacing is ridiculous.  The concept that they are attempting to, however, isn't.

[Baldr]

You don't understand what BIBO is then if you think random alliances declaring on a nation is at all related to BIBO.  Umbrella took Puppet's slots once and only once.  Not twice, not three times, but once.  When AI and friends attacked us of course we shifted focus away from Puppets and onto the much bigger threat  of Duckroll.

 

If you had staggered those slots, people would believe  you.  But your goal was to protect him, not to damage him.

 

If you had nuked him, people would believe you.  But despite all your talk about Blood In Blood Out, you didn't nuke because you didn't want to bloody him up.

 

And ever since then, he's been sending aid to Umbrella.  He's still doing it.

 

http://www.cybernations.net/search_aid.asp?search=169876&Extended=1

 

He isn't using the Umbrella AA, but he's still a member of Umbrella, just like all the other Umbrella nations running around using different AA's.

 

So bottom line, this war started when an Umbrella nation started attacking AI.  And other members of Umbrella then intentionally broke rules handed down by Admin by using war slot filling to help protect Puppets.

[Tick1]

So bottom line, this war started when an Umbrella nation started attacking AI.  And other members of Umbrella then intentionally broke rules handed down by Admin by using war slot filling to help protect Puppets.

 

Please guide me to the rules that you are claiming we didn't follow.

[Baldr]

Admin himself got involved.  You can claim you followed the rules all you want, but you're lying and everyone knows it.

[Tick1]

Admin himself got involved.  You can claim you followed the rules all you want, but you're lying and everyone knows it.

 

Just because admin was involved doesn't mean he is correct seeing as there are no rules posted for us to abide by. Keep believing you can enforce rules without a standard policy. Seeing as it's nearly impossible to do in every setting with numerous people, this world isn't an exception.

[Baldr]

Claiming that there are no rules against war slot filling doesn't mean that there actually are no rules against war slot filling.

[Tick1]

Claiming that there are no rules against war slot filling doesn't mean that there actually are no rules against war slot filling.

 

Actually, that's exactly what it means when there are no rules posted that the users are required to abide by. When you signed up to run a nation you were not informed of what you can and cannot do and simply given a nation. If you want to enforce a policy it should be visibly posted and enforced the same every time.

[Caliph]

If you had staggered those slots, people would believe  you.  But your goal was to protect him, not to damage him.

 

If you had nuked him, people would believe you.  But despite all your talk about Blood In Blood Out, you didn't nuke because you didn't want to bloody him up.

 

And ever since then, he's been sending aid to Umbrella.  He's still doing it.

 

http://www.cybernations.net/search_aid.asp?search=169876&Extended=1

 

He isn't using the Umbrella AA, but he's still a member of Umbrella, just like all the other Umbrella nations running around using different AA's.

 

So bottom line, this war started when an Umbrella nation started attacking AI.  And other members of Umbrella then intentionally broke rules handed down by Admin by using war slot filling to help protect Puppets.

 

The purpose of BIBO is not to stagger and keep someone in war for a long time, but to run in, swing on them for a bit, and let them go their merry way.

 

AI didn't wait to see if we would nuke Puppets, they were just too ticked that his slots were taken by non Umbrella members the first time and by Umbrella the second. 

 

Puppets is his own person, he can send aid to whomever he wants.  He is a rogue, he left Umbrella, hense why we hit him, but then AI hit us.  Obviously the whole of Duckroll, NPO, and their other allies hitting us presents a much bigger threat to us than Puppets.  The slots were not taken to deny them to AI, but for us to get our licks in.  This is not some policy we had made up just for this occasion, this is a long standing policy that has been applied before so there is past precident showing how wrong you are.

 

However all of this drivel detracts from the question the OP had.

 

 

[Baldr]

The slots were not taken to deny them to AI, but for us to get our licks in.

 

Bull.  If you were trying to "get licks in" you would have been nuking.

 

Everyone knows you are lying.

[Tick1]

Bull.  If you were trying to "get licks in" you would have been nuking.

 

Everyone knows you are lying.

 

Yet you can't give me a simple answer as to defining what 'War slot filling' technically is. Please define it before making accusations.

Edited February 15, 2013 by Tick1

[Baldr]

So according to you, we're allowed to fill war slots, we're allowed to fill spy slots, etc.  Rules don't matter.  I assume you also believe that we can have multiple nations.  Obviously, we have nothing to discuss.

[Regent of Omerta]

Actually, that's exactly what it means when there are no rules posted that the users are required to abide by. When you signed up to run a nation you were not informed of what you can and cannot do and simply given a nation. If you want to enforce a policy it should be visibly posted and enforced the same every time.

It says it right under the war declaration screen.   I'm pretty sure spy ops screen says the same thing.    Do you need screen shots as well or do you just wish to continue playing dumb?  

[d3mon]

Actually, that's exactly what it means when there are no rules posted that the users are required to abide by. When you signed up to run a nation you were not informed of what you can and cannot do and simply given a nation. If you want to enforce a policy it should be visibly posted and enforced the same every time.

 

Are you claiming that Umb didn't know the rules because they were in some way hidden?

 

What are you smoking and where can I find it?

[Tick1]

It says it right under the war declaration screen.   I'm pretty sure spy ops screen says the same thing.    Do you need screen shots as well or do you just wish to continue playing dumb?  

 

Yes I would like a screen shot of where it actually defines what war slot filling is.

 

Are you claiming that Umb didn't know the rules because they were in some way hidden?

 

What are you smoking and where can I find it?

 

I am not implying anything of the such, I am implying that the rules aren't defined properly and therefor enforced improperly.

[Tick1]

So according to you, we're allowed to fill war slots, we're allowed to fill spy slots, etc.  Rules don't matter.  I assume you also believe that we can have multiple nations.  Obviously, we have nothing to discuss.

 

Actually it states clearly that we are not allowed to have multiple nations in multiple instances.

 

However as stated here

 

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/topic/13800-war-slot-filling/?p=387854

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/topic/13800-war-slot-filling/?p=429594

 

This is the closest I can find what is actually required to deem a war valid. If you can find something more recent please inform me.

Edited February 15, 2013 by Tick1