GOONS defending the great wall

[Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz]

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1330820745' post='2932762']
Your actions are reprehensible.
[/quote]
If our actions in these discussions were truely reprehensible, you should take the appropriate course of action rather than whinging repetively about it in our announcement about our declaration of war. If you're referring to our policies on raiding, this war or anything else we do, the point I made above is that they're there for a reason - we give you oxygen, we entertain ourselves and our friends and everyone should be happy.

edit: spelling

Edited March 4, 2012 by Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz

[IYIyTh]

That's not how this works. You don't get to decide where and when your reprehensible actions are discussed. In fact, this is quite the appropriate forum.

[Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz]

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1330821886' post='2932767']
That's not how this works. You don't get to decide where and when your reprehensible actions are discussed. In fact, this is quite the appropriate forum.
[/quote]
So you're talking about the latter then? Right - in that case, let's stick to what this war's about then. You can agree to that, right, seeing that's what the OP is about?

We raid someone. The MONGOLS sent aid to the tech raid target. We view it as an act of war and tell them that and demand restitution. They reject our diplomacy. We go to war.

In that sequence of events, which one is reprehensible?

[dunhill2071]

Goons are winning the argument

[IYIyTh]

It's the behavior as a whole.

You also had a member/the leader of Mongols come over to your alliance. Your diplomacy with him/her consisted of mocking he/she at every term, forcing him/her to do degrading things and even after he/she complied you then attacked the entire alliance for one member sending soldiers/tech to someone you attacked.

There is a pattern in your behavior and it is that of an overgrown bully, as evidenced by the incessant slander of anyone who has questioned even a shred of your position on the subject matter as a whole.

[IYIyTh]

[quote name='dunhill2071' timestamp='1330822183' post='2932771']
Goons are winning the argument
[/quote]


This really is great. For many reasons.

[Sardonic]

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1330822352' post='2932775']
You also had a member/the leader of Mongols come over to your alliance. Your diplomacy with him/her consisted of mocking he/she at every term
[/quote]
Got some proof of this?
[quote]
, forcing him/her to do degrading things and even after he/she complied you then attacked the entire alliance
[/quote]
We have standards in what we accept on the mercy board. He apologized to me in private for the mercy board incident, so we won't hold it against them.
[quote]
for one member sending soldiers/tech to someone you attacked.
[/quote]
For three members sending soldiers/tech/aid to somebody we attacked. If you don't even have the basic facts of the case right, you have no business debating it.
[quote]
There is a pattern in your behavior and it is that of an overgrown bully, as evidenced by the incessant slander of anyone who has questioned even a shred of your position on the subject matter as a whole.
[/quote]
I'm not seeing this pattern. We welcome constructive criticism of our activities. It is not our fault that people such as yourself are incapable of giving it.

[Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz]

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1330822352' post='2932775']
It's the behavior as a whole.

You also had a member/the leader of Mongols come over to your alliance. Your diplomacy with him/her consisted of mocking he/she at every term, forcing him/her to do degrading things and even after he/she complied you then attacked the entire alliance for one member sending soldiers/tech to someone you attacked.

There is a pattern in your behavior and it is that of an overgrown bully, as evidenced by the incessant slander of anyone who has questioned even a shred of your position on the subject matter as a whole.
[/quote]
So the issue is with the diplomacy, eh?

The mercy board is out in public. It is a fact that mockery of appellants takes place there. It was not the only diplomatic option available. Prior to the events you describe, the MONGOLS representative rejected outright our very civil diplomatic approach in private, with much indignation and outrage at our request for restitution (a moderate one mind you - a mere $18 million and most likely open to reasonable negotiation) yet then undertook to resolve the matter by going to a place of public mockery? Hmmm, I wonder what the rationale behind that move was? Surely not a way to garner a little more public outrage from people like yourself? No of course it couldn't be, must be just more reprehensible behaviour from those evil goons...

edit: can't spell

Edited March 4, 2012 by Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz

[Choson]

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1330822352' post='2932775']
It's the behavior as a whole.

You also had a member/the leader of Mongols come over to your alliance. Your diplomacy with him/her consisted of mocking he/she at every term, forcing him/her to do degrading things and even after he/she complied you then attacked the entire alliance for one member sending soldiers/tech to someone you attacked.

There is a pattern in your behavior and it is that of an overgrown bully, as evidenced by the incessant slander of anyone who has questioned even a shred of your position on the subject matter as a whole.
[/quote]
You don't get it, do you? In this very thread, we saw representatives of the Mongols backtrack and/or blatantly lie about our [i]supposed[/i] terms of reparations.

For all the hemming and hawing that people do with respect to our "degrading" terms, people either pay up or fulfill the terms. They always do. This has been a part of how GOONS do business for [i][b]several years[/b][/i] now.

The losers of wars don't get to set their own peace terms. That's not how it works. If it did, I'll gladly lose as many wars as possible so I can submit some outrageous terms that are more my favor.

[IYIyTh]

Yes an the behavior of your members was just fine, right? Did they apologize to him/her?
No?
Also, common sense is probably the best constructive criticism I can offer you.
If you act like war-mongers and seek to belittle/insult anyone who speaks out against you, don't be surprised if you spend X amount of pages defending your actions.
There's certainly a pattern in how you treat others and are perceived, as well as your past actions highlighted in the other thread on this subject.

[IYIyTh]

I'm sorry, where does any of that warrant any of the behavior seen here:

http://cngoons.com/board/index.php?topic=11217.0

(In before public thread gets taken down.)

[Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz]

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1330823458' post='2932786']
Yes an the behavior of your members was just fine, right? Did they apologize to him/her?
No?
Also, common sense is probably the best constructive criticism I can offer you.
If you act like war-mongers and seek to belittle/insult anyone who speaks out against you, don't be surprised if you spend X amount of pages defending your actions.
There's certainly a pattern in how you treat others and are perceived, as well as your past actions highlighted in the other thread on this subject.
[/quote]
Don't cop out on the argument like that. Respond sensibly, I know you can.

[Sardonic]

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1330823458' post='2932786']
Yes an the behavior of your members was just fine, right? Did they apologize to him/her?
No?
[/quote]
The members are entitled to say what they will, I will not censor them.
[quote]
Also, common sense is probably the best constructive criticism I can offer you.
[/quote]

[quote]
If you act like war-mongers and seek to belittle/insult anyone who speaks out against you, don't be surprised if you spend X amount of pages defending your actions.
[/quote]
The only one arguing for your side here is you, for pages and pages, making the exact same tired arguments without a shred of solid evidence to back them up. Why do you think it is that nobody is standing up for you here Myth and supporting your arguments? Could it be that maybe you're not making an argument worth supporting?

[IYIyTh]

[quote name='Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz' timestamp='1330823639' post='2932790']
Don't cop out on the argument like that. Respond sensibly, I know you can.
[/quote]

How am I copping out? I'm presenting you with your own members words and actions and using them to strengthen the argument that you are all needlessly acting like a bunch of overgrown bullies.

[IYIyTh]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1330823719' post='2932791']

The only one arguing for your side here is you, for pages and pages, making the exact same tired arguments without a shred of solid evidence to back them up. Why do you think it is that nobody is standing up for you here Myth and supporting your arguments? Could it be that maybe you're not making an argument worth supporting?
[/quote]

Your logic is that because GOONS has taken the time to spend three + pages to defend their actions against someone they claim whose opinion is irrelevant and worthless really barks in the face of your next fallacy.
Also, could it be that aliens are going to invade and destroy planet Bob every day but just choose not to because they get sidetracked with Pan Galactic Gargle-Blasters?

Seriously, if you're going to take posts like this from GOONS members :
[quote name='dunhill2071' timestamp='1330822183' post='2932771']
Goons are winning the argument
[/quote]

As evidence of you winning any argument on display here, by all means, don't let me rain on your victory parade.

[Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz]

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1330823723' post='2932792']
How am I copping out?
[/quote]
You copped out by completely ignoring what I wrote.

Edit: My point was that bitburg chose his own diplomatic route to travel and was well aware of which way he was going. We didn't push him into it.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz

[Sardonic]

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1330823929' post='2932796']
Your logic is that because GOONS has taken the time to spend three + pages to defend their actions against someone they claim whose opinion is irrelevant and worthless really barks in the face of your next fallacy.
[/quote]
The only fallacious thing is claiming that an argument you yourself are dragging out is important because of its duration. Just because you repeated yourself over and over does not mean your argument is important. Also, we goons love to post, this is entertaining to me, and I am very well equipped to talk with detractors on behalf of the alliance. So please, don't flatter yourself.
[quote]
Also, could it be that aliens are going to invade and destroy planet Bob every day but just choose not to because they get sidetracked with Pan Galactic Gargle-Blasters?
[/quote]
wat
[quote]
Seriously, if you're going to take posts like this from GOONS members :


As evidence of you winning any argument on display here, by all means, don't let me rain on your victory parade.
[/quote]
He's just stating a fact. Regardless, I don't gauge my victory on that, I gauge it on the fact that it appears [I]nobody[/I] is taking your side in this "debate", and your rehashed arguments are nothing I've not heard before.

[IYIyTh]

[quote name='Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz' timestamp='1330824033' post='2932797']
You copped out by completely ignoring what I wrote.
[/quote]

I lumped it in with Choson's. Yours was virtually identical with a different twist. If you'd like to address the rebuttal I gave him that's fine but I'm not going to answer the same question more than once.

[IYIyTh]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1330824220' post='2932801']
The only fallacious thing is claiming that an argument you yourself are dragging out is important because of its duration. Just because you repeated yourself over and over does not mean your argument is important. Also, we goons love to post, this is entertaining to me, and I am very well equipped to talk with detractors on behalf of the alliance. So please, don't flatter yourself. [/quote]

I'm not flattering myself or claiming my argument is important because of its duration. I'd rather focus on facts.
I am pointing out the irony that for someone you spent quite a bit of effort defending yourself from the seemingly unintelligent, incapable, unimportant, wrong, irrelevant questions of someone you couldn't be bothered to respond to.

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1330824220' post='2932801']
wat
He's just stating a fact. Regardless, I don't gauge my victory on that, I gauge it on the fact that it appears [i]nobody[/i] is taking your side in this "debate", and your rehashed arguments are nothing I've not heard before.
[/quote]

My point on aliens is that your assumption that because you have 4 members of GOONS supporting you and no one else besides me has challenged your undying hate for everything that suggests you could be in the wrong in the past three hours is a victory for GOONS is equally as valid as it being true that aliens are about to invade and destroy the planet at any moment, but just choose not to.

[Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz]

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1330824220' post='2932802']
I lumped it in with Choson's. Yours was virtually identical with a different twist. If you'd like to address the rebuttal I gave him that's fine but I'm not going to answer the same question more than once.
[/quote]
Ah I see, another cop out. Weak.

[IYIyTh]

[quote name='Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz' timestamp='1330824468' post='2932805']
Ah I see, another cop out. Weak.
[/quote]

I know. I could see you caring a whole lot more about what I have to say if I took the time to write a paragraph for each member of GOONS on the same point.

[Sardonic]

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1330824437' post='2932804']
I'm not flattering myself or claiming my argument is important because of its duration. I'd rather focus on facts.
[/quote]
That's pretty funny considering you've yet to state a single concrete fact. Instead you focus on your unproven, unsourced theory that we're going to be rolled for our attitude towards you and others like you.
[quote]
I am pointing out the irony that for someone you spent quite a bit of effort defending yourself from the seemingly unintelligent, incapable, unimportant, wrong, irrelevant questions of someone you couldn't be bothered to respond to.
[/quote]
What can I say? I like to post, and running rhetorical circles around you can be so satisfying.
[quote]
My point on aliens is that your assumption that because you have 4 members of GOONS supporting you and no one else besides me has challenged your undying hate for everything that suggests you could be in the wrong in the past three hours is a victory for GOONS is equally as valid as it being true that aliens are about to invade and destroy the planet at any moment, but just choose not to.
[/quote]
That's pretty laughable. I'm more than willing to wait it out, let's wait and see if anyone non-methrage/roquentin, CoJ, or random formerly stomped microalliance sees fit to argue in affirmative of your 'GOONS will be destroyed becuz they r means' theory. I'm not trying to be an argumentum ad populum user here, but seriously, that should tip you off. That and the fact you've not done anything to prove your theory.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Sardonic

[Choson]

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1330824437' post='2932804']
My point on aliens is that your assumption that because you have 4 members of GOONS supporting you and no one else besides me has challenged your undying hate for everything that suggests you could be in the wrong in the past three hours is a victory for GOONS is equally as valid as it being true that aliens are about to invade and destroy the planet at any moment, but just choose not to.
[/quote]
We don't hate everything. See, yet again, you and others make outrageous claims about our alliance and our members.

You trying to attack us is, at best, a Pyrrhic victory for you.

[Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz]

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1330824661' post='2932806']
I know. I could see you caring a whole lot more about what I have to say if I took the time to write a paragraph for each member of GOONS on the same point.
[/quote]
But you are plainly wrong. We didn't mock him in all diplomacy undertaken, we mocked him after he chose to take a route of public mockery. The diplomacy conducted prior to him choosing that path was civil.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz

[IYIyTh]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1330825016' post='2932807']
That's pretty funny considering you've yet to state a single concrete fact. Instead you focus on your unproven, unsourced theory that we're going to be rolled for our attitude towards you and others like you.

What can I say? I like to post, and running rhetorical circles around you can be so satisfying.

That's pretty laughable. I'm more than willing to wait it out, let's wait and see if anyone non-methrage, CoJ, or random formerly stomped microalliance sees fit to argue in affirmative of your 'GOONS will be destroyed becuz they r means' theory. I'm not trying to be an argumentum ad populum user here, but seriously, that should tip you off. That and the fact you've not done anything to prove your theory.
[/quote]

What unproven, unsourced theory? I stated you've been acting and are acting like a bunch of tools and have been using your own words ITT as pretty prime examples. You've yet to address those in any way shape or form other than "that's just how we are," and "we've calculated that acting this way is better for us long/short term." You keep acting like I need to have some "a-hah," moment afterwards, but the punchline is pretty much given every time you or your members (now, a few were alright, mind you,) posted in response to me. Certainly previously before I entered you had taken to mocking anyone who suggested there might be something wrong with your actions, and you've stated yourself and reinforced it in your last point that you don't care what's said so long as it isn't said by x y z.

Well, here's hoping that list doesn't grow!