World Resource Distribution

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Charles Stuart' timestamp='1316274658' post='2802279']
Goodbye fur.
[/quote]
Fur isn't bad for nations who gain a few thousand miles of land from it, especially those who also have Agriculture Development Program. If someone has 1,000 land in natural growth, that is 2,000 land they gain from furs. If they have Agriculture Development program that is an extra 1,000 citizens they get from the extra land alone, as well as getting +$3.50 income and not having to ever worry about their population density. Silver, gems, wine and other resources that don't get better with time are more at risk. I imagine we'll also see a lot less sugar and spice as more people drop those resources and go for better bonus resources than fast food when people can customize their trades.

Spice/sugar aren't good at all unless you get all the trades for fast food, but even that is just +2 happiness and causes you to end up not being able to get many of the other bonus resources. With silver, gems and wine it requires to many resources to get AP/FJ, so you need to miss out on a lot of other important bonus resources if you want to use enough trades on that as well. Fur on its own is kind of like fish if a nation is old enough, in that it can be worth having even if you're not using it for any bonus resources.

Edited September 18, 2011 by Methrage

[Lord Caparo]

I have furs and silver as my base resources yet i have the best collection circle.

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Lord Caparo' timestamp='1316325411' post='2802885']
I have furs and silver as my base resources yet i have the best collection circle.
[/quote]
Although everyone in the circle is missing out on some important resources for growth and fighting wars (10 less planes, missing out on a lot of soldier efficiency boosts, etc), so its only the best if the whole circle is willing to switch to something else when going to war or doing an infrastructure jump.

Edited September 18, 2011 by Methrage

[asawyer]

While there are several resources that will get scaled back in the next few month the one that should drop like a rock is lead. It should be interesting to see how far down it goes, especially when people start to realize the 7BR isn't the ideal military setup for most nations.

I think it would be really funny to spam new players and tell them this is all an evil plot by top tier nations to kill off microchips and make their tech more expensive.

[Vinzent Zeppelin]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1316322739' post='2802858']
Fur isn't bad for nations who gain a few thousand miles of land from it, especially those who also have Agriculture Development Program. If someone has 1,000 land in natural growth, that is 2,000 land they gain from furs. If they have Agriculture Development program that is an extra 1,000 citizens they get from the extra land alone, as well as getting +$3.50 income and not having to ever worry about their population density. Silver, gems, wine and other resources that don't get better with time are more at risk. I imagine we'll also see a lot less sugar and spice as more people drop those resources and go for better bonus resources than fast food when people can customize their trades.

Spice/sugar aren't good at all unless you get all the trades for fast food, but even that is just +2 happiness and causes you to end up not being able to get many of the other bonus resources. With silver, gems and wine it requires to many resources to get AP/FJ, so you need to miss out on a lot of other important bonus resources if you want to use enough trades on that as well. Fur on its own is kind of like fish if a nation is old enough, in that it can be worth having even if you're not using it for any bonus resources.
[/quote]

In terms of income and population increases, furs doesn't quite compare to fish, but good eye for pointing that out. The population-boosting resources are actually pretty good for large nations -- and any nation with 3000 purchased land is likely to have infrastructure to match. Above 4000 infrastructure or so, sugars will provide more than 1000 citizens, but it's mostly useful for fast food, which is full of population-boosting resources anyway. I can't be bothered to do the math at the moment, but for large nations not purchasing infrastructure much, a two-bonus set: beer, fast food, fish, gems, silver and uranium, seems optimal. (Wine is a prime candidate if you don't need uranium for some reason.)

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Vinzent Zeppelin' timestamp='1316327102' post='2802894']
In terms of income and population increases, furs doesn't quite compare to fish, but good eye for pointing that out. The population-boosting resources are actually pretty good for large nations -- and any nation with 3000 purchased land is likely to have infrastructure to match. Above 4000 infrastructure or so, sugars will provide more than 1000 citizens, but it's mostly useful for fast food, which is full of population-boosting resources anyway. I can't be bothered to do the math at the moment, but for large nations not purchasing infrastructure much, a two-bonus set: beer, fast food, fish, gems, silver and uranium, seems optimal. (Wine is a prime candidate if you don't need uranium for some reason.)
[/quote]
A nation doesn't need to keep 3,000 purchased land once they already have the wonder though, so a nation can have zero purchased land and even sell off any land they gain during the war for extra money if they need it, but still have a lot more land than they need. I didn't do it this war, but in the past I've purposely gotten furs and rubber as resources while fighting wars funded mostly just through money gained in ground attacks, but also selling land gained in raids for extra money if I need it for troops as I don't keep money or land on hand for those I'm fighting to loot. If it wasn't so I could buy the wonder, I never would of bought myself up to 3,000 purchased land.

[quote name='asawyer' timestamp='1316327052' post='2802893']
While there are several resources that will get scaled back in the next few month the one that should drop like a rock is lead. It should be interesting to see how far down it goes, especially when people start to realize the 7BR isn't the ideal military setup for most nations.

I think it would be really funny to spam new players and tell them this is all an evil plot by top tier nations to kill off microchips and make their tech more expensive.
[/quote]
I think a 7Br with pigs and uranium would come close to being the best if you're able to take advantage of the land selling thing effectively you get from rubber, otherwise a 5Br might be best for war. Other than pigs from Fast Food, none of the other FF resources are needed for the best military setup. A 5Br so you can drop rubber (along with asphalt and automobiles) to get another 8% population booster or furs depending on your size might be better. All the resources for radiation cleanup except gold are good for war, so might as well throw gold in and get microchips, as well as radiation cleanup since you'll probably be nuked during war. Also the extra 8 income you get if you have Mining Industry Consortium for having uranium, lead, coal and oil further improves a setup which incorporates them.

Edited September 18, 2011 by Methrage

[Sigrun Vapneir]

Whatever else this thread has demonstrated so far, I think it shows clearly that I am right about resource trading being the most interesting part of the game mechanics by far. There are all kinds of different advantages and strategies that interact and you can get two players who are both experienced and smart and they STILL have fundamentally different ideas of what trades are good and what arent.

In that respect the resource system is a brilliant, and unique, element of the game.

[King William IV]

[quote name='FlogYou' timestamp='1316310441' post='2802722']
nobody seems to appreciate the 2007 Chateau Neuf-du-Pape?
[/quote]

I much prefer an 89 though

[Ironfist]

That chart is kind of amusing. Basically everyone is changing their resources so they're "needed". I wonder if anyone realises how little 6 nations who have uranium can actually achieve in a ring.

Me? Well I'm going to wait for a trade circle to get in on before I randomly select the "best" resources.

[Lanore]

Thank you Ironfist.

I sent two messages out to the alliance before this update with a date saying when it was coming, and specifically not to change their resources until they were given a circle.

I just got done sending out waves of trade circle messages today.

Lets see how many replied I get along the lines of " I Can't change my resources to what you said because I switched them to x/x so I would be useful in a circle. "

I swear I'll rip my teeth out in anger.

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Jaiar' timestamp='1316310694' post='2802725']
If fur, gems, silver, and gold see a drastic decrease would you consider adding them as a third resource that nations can have?
[/quote]
Gold actually seems to of went up, as its used in more than just FJ/AP. Maybe adding another bonus resource or two which use some of the other FJ/AP resources, but don't require all of them would give them a boost as well.

Gold is used for Radiation Cleanup and Microchips, which is why you don't see the same kind of drop with gold and its actually going up, while all the others used for FJ or AP have went down except for fish (even coal took a minor drop). Wine/Furs are the lowest, as they're only used for AP which also require FJ, so to get a bonus resource out of them you need to use up almost all your trade slots for just 2 bonus resources which aren't very good. Silver is taking a pretty big hit even though it gives twice the income gold does, as its inferior to gems, fish and other resources people have the option of using as an extra not going towards any of their bonus resources.

So I think more bonus resources would be how to improve them if its going to be done, as AP requires 7 resources with a lot of them not being good except when combined with other resources and rarely is everyone in a trade circle planning to sit at their same infra level and avoid war long enough that its worth forming a trade circle for doing nothing but collect taxes.

Edited September 18, 2011 by Methrage

[Charles Stuart]

Such a relief for a trade circle to be completed within two days. Has to be one of the better changes CN has received in a very long time.

[LeonidasRexII]

[quote name='Sigrun Vapneir' timestamp='1316334905' post='2802929']
Whatever else this thread has demonstrated so far, I think it shows clearly that I am right about resource trading being the most interesting part of the game mechanics by far. There are all kinds of different advantages and strategies that interact and you can get two players who are both experienced and smart and they STILL have fundamentally different ideas of what trades are good and what arent.

In that respect the resource system is a brilliant, and unique, element of the game.
[/quote]

What I'm dying to see is how it's going to be used in war. I can see it now. Treaties get cancelled, cross words are exchanged, and then TCs are switched over to a war footing only to have the war die out. Now you're stuck with Radiation Clean-Up and Microchips instead of AP/FJ. Oh well, you think, it's really only one collection so it's not that bad, so after 30 days TCs are changed back to max-Collect. BUT more cross words are exchanged and the war's back on. Too bad you just changed your TC to AP/FJ. You'll have to be satisfied with trying to bling your enemies to death until the 30 day limit is up. At which point the war will probably be over with anyhow.

That little scenario is kind of humorous, but I wonder if it will affect the war side of things. Will it make nations more cautious when going to war or just the opposite?

[Banksy]

[quote name='LeonidasRexII' timestamp='1316577399' post='2805080']
What I'm dying to see is how it's going to be used in war. I can see it now. Treaties get cancelled, cross words are exchanged, and then TCs are switched over to a war footing only to have the war die out. Now you're stuck with Radiation Clean-Up and Microchips instead of AP/FJ. Oh well, you think, it's really only one collection so it's not that bad, so after 30 days TCs are changed back to max-Collect. BUT more cross words are exchanged and the war's back on. Too bad you just changed your TC to AP/FJ. You'll have to be satisfied with trying to bling your enemies to death until the 30 day limit is up. At which point the war will probably be over with anyhow.

That little scenario is kind of humorous, but I wonder if it will affect the war side of things. Will it make nations more cautious when going to war or just the opposite?
[/quote]
Other alliances are competent and wouldn't let this happen.

[Mixoux]

Even if that happened, I don't think it'd make [i]that[/i] much difference if you're stuck in your econ set during war. It's not like your tanks and CMs will suddenly stop working.

[im317]

i would just go with a war set and get temps to collect. i mean you only need to collect once every 20 days, a war set includes max bill reduction doesn't it?

[LeonidasRexII]

[quote name='im317' timestamp='1316638796' post='2805456']
i would just go with a war set and get temps to collect. i mean you only need to collect once every 20 days, a war set includes max bill reduction doesn't it?
[/quote]

There's a 30 day limit on resource changes so you can only change once per month. In your system you'd have to collect at least once every other month with the war based TC.

[Iceknave]

[quote name='im317' timestamp='1316638796' post='2805456']
i would just go with a war set and get temps to collect. i mean you only need to collect once every 20 days, a war set includes max bill reduction doesn't it?
[/quote]
You would have to drop at least 2 slots every 20 days or so to grab 4 resources to swap between the 2 sets. Depending on the activity levels of your partners, it's doable.

You'll will also be likely to lose out on the happiness bonus for same team bonuses for 2 trades.

@LeonidasRexII He's thinking of using temps for collections, then resume being in the war set.

Edited September 22, 2011 by Iceknave