A NEAT Announcement

[Pingu]

I admire this stance, NEAT. A good policy, clearly expressed.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='iamwalrus' timestamp='1315965844' post='2800087']
That is why I said 99% and not 100%., and even in your situation it would be more beneficial to have a "duel".
[/quote]

But who will think about my casualties then!!!!!!!

Nah, in all seriousness, I used to be a rather hardcore anti-raider until I learned the joys of raiding. It is decent war experience, not truly great but at least gets you somewhat familiar with finding the correct buttons to push. The only times it is actually a good war experience is if the other nation fights back. And then, just like in "real" wars, you get the chance to chat with your opponent. I have had a couple of former raid targets join the alliance I was in after we nuked the crap outta one another.

As for your stance, run with it. Use it to snag up raid victims and build them up. Heck, if you can find any between 50-80k pass them my way. I will raid them, and you can attempt to snag them up.

[Lurunin]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1316018697' post='2800425']
As for your stance, run with it. Use it to snag up raid victims and build them up. Heck, if you can find any between 50-80k pass them my way. I will raid them, and you can attempt to snag them up.
[/quote]

back off we're NEAT's raiding arm

I do have to say i find some people's outrage over this fairly amusing...if it doesnt concern you too bad. if it does then suck it up and get to know NEAT better because they never down play their allies simply because of what they may or may not believe in

[iamwalrus]

*OOC*
@ Hiro Nakara

My comment about raiding nations being "dysfunctional" is a [i]In Character[/i] comment. In your real life I would think that you would be opposed to beating people up for the sake of pleasure, and so in this world the same ethics are in play.

Now, when you argue Out of Character pleasures for a reason to justify attacking other players who are In Character, you begin to have problems, and there are other ways (such as duels) to get your Out of Charcter pleasures than picking on innocent people. When you do this, you drive people from the game for your own selfish pleasures.

Now, if you want the theme of your nation or alliance to be that of Hitler, Napoleon or the Roman Empire then by all means you can play the role of the "world conqueror". However, you will be met with those who view that as corrupt.

So, pick your justification for raiding and learn to understand the difference between IC and OOC comments.

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='iamwalrus' timestamp='1316021385' post='2800438']
*OOC*
@ Hiro Nakara

My comment about raiding nations being "dysfunctional" is a [i]In Character[/i] comment. In your real life I would think that you would be opposed to beating people up for the sake of pleasure, and so in this world the same ethics are in play.

Now, when you argue Out of Character pleasures for a reason to justify attacking other players who are In Character, you begin to have problems, and there are other ways (such as duels) to get your Out of Charcter pleasures than picking on innocent people. When you do this, you drive people from the game for your own selfish pleasures.

Now, if you want the theme of your nation or alliance to be that of Hitler, Napoleon or the Roman Empire then by all means you can play the role of the "world conqueror". However, you will be met with those who view that as corrupt.

So, pick your justification for raiding and learn to understand the difference between IC and OOC comments.
[/quote]

Wrong, why Discuss OOC? Tech raiding is IC and a valid part of the war system. If warmongering wasn't then we wouldn't have global conflicts.[OOC] What my opinion on beating people in real life has to do with this game or the war system in place is completely beyond me.[OOC] In fact I'm going to throw a WUT the HELL out at you?

Who mentioned OOC pleasures for attacking? Seriously I'm baffled by your post, it has absolutely no bearing on a [OOC]browser game[OOC]

The war system is there for a reason, people like to play the [OOC]game[OOC] for warring, after all it's an integral part of the system, Because they use it to a different standard as you, that equates to OOC pleasures and wanting to beat people up in real life? WUT? Please be serious.

I think it's you that needs to learn what IC and OOC is btw. seriously

Your likes drive people away from the game out of boredom from lack of warring. I'm not sitting here calling you dysfunctional because of your playing style.

Your duelling thing, would never be implemented on a wide day to day scale either.


Again WTH at you thinking I was meaning dysfunctional as an OOC thing. WUT WUT WUT.

Also $%&@ you for making me use the [OOC] brackets so much for something that is a given as being IC.

Do you sit and nation manage to collect stats? You find this enjoyable? People play this game to war, they find this enjoyable. What's so hard to grasp about that?

[OOC]That equates to me liking to go out and rob people and kill them in real life[OOC]

Edited September 14, 2011 by Hiro Nakara

[iamwalrus]

Every time you call this a "game" or mention "war function" you are stepping out of a character from within the world of Digiterra. I have no problem if you want to play this "game" as a evil dictator or a world conqueror, and to that end I will treat you as one, by acting as a freedom fighter and underground organizer. However, when you talk about boredom, you are talking about your personal self and that is out of character.

That is the point I am making.

This is why you don't find topics such as "solutions to this game" in the IC sections of the forum.

Also, why do we need to organize mass amounts of duels for everyone? Just find a buddy and fight him/her. Or are you afraid of actually losing your pixels rather than taking advantage of an innocent person?


*edit* Now, Comrade Craigs post he made above is a good example of arguing [i]for[/i] tech raiding [i]in character[/i]. You don't need to have the same reason of support and you don't need to agree with it, but at least his point allows us to discuss politics and ethics [i]in character[/i] and according to our world of Digiterra. I am tired of all this "boredom" crap, and every time that is used as a reason, you kill a good conversation. If your bored, your boring.

Edited September 14, 2011 by iamwalrus

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='iamwalrus' timestamp='1316022878' post='2800444']
Every time you call this a "game" or mention "war function" you are stepping out of a character from within the world of Digiterra. I have no problem if you want to play this "game" as a evil dictator or a world conqueror, and to that end I will treat you as one, by acting as a freedom fighter and underground organizer. However, when you talk about boredom, you are talking about your personal self and that is out of character.

That is the point I am making.

This is why you don't find topics such as "solutions to this game" in the IC sections of the forum.

Also, why do we need to organize mass amounts of duels for everyone? Just find a buddy and fight him/her. Or are you afraid of actually losing your pixels rather than taking advantage of an innocent person?
[/quote]


Have you seen my nation? Have you seen my casualties? I have swallowed well over 50 nukes Some at low NS and most at mid NS. I'm certainly not scared of a fight, I find this hilarious, You do know I have a penchant for going rogue on occasion? The fact that you being 1500 days old, sits there and calls me scared to fight, when you sit with 500k casualties makes me laugh like hell WTH?

Well you stated be creative to Nippy regarding the warring and tech raiders playing for that purpose, So your duelling idea was just garbage then and not really worth much other than you posting words. If you want an alternative to raiding then be creative? come up with ideas that will cater to the masses?

So again me mentioning [OOC]game or war function[OOC] has what relevance on me wanting to beat people up in real life because I do it [OOC]in-game?[OOC]

Again LOL at you saying I'm scared to lose pixels, Mr 500k casualties at 1500 days old, It looks the opposite way to me.

Also Comrade Craigs post isn't putting any points across other than he likes raiding. That's what I have been telling you from the get go, but you keep ignoring it, People like raiding and warring, understand that.

Edited September 14, 2011 by Hiro Nakara

[iamwalrus]

We are getting closer to communication.

I was saying that you wanting to destroy innocent nations in the world of Digiterra is dysfunctional. Whether you agree or not, there is a precedent set through wars, and tradition that the world of Digiterra has a code of ethics. This is why there are CB's stated before wars. If there were no ethics, then no one would explain why they were warring, they would just war. However, there is not a history of ethics when it comes to alliances who are outside the alliance politics, those who sit in "none". In fact, historically, it is frowned upon to be sitting on the "none" AA. This is why there is rarely a CB given publicly before raids on unaligned nations. There seems to be no code of ethics anyone needs to "please".

There is a mentality in this world that no nation has any dignity or right to life unless they are in a AA. This statement made by NEAT confronts that mentality and states that ALL nations deserve a right to life, as long as they are not harming those around them.

Also, I do not care about "Casualties". If you want to fight, come up to my NS and rogue me. I will gladly pound you back down.

Edited September 14, 2011 by iamwalrus

[USMC123]

Welp. Guess we're not getting a MDP with NEAT any time soon.

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='iamwalrus' timestamp='1316024808' post='2800452']
We are getting closer to communication.

I was saying that you wanting to destroy innocent nations in the world of Digiterra is dysfunctional. Whether you agree or not, there is a precedent set through wars, and tradition that the world of Digiterra has a code of ethics. This is why there are CB's stated before wars. If there were no ethics, then no one would explain why they were warring, they would just war. However, there is not a history of ethics when it comes to alliances who are outside the alliance politics, those who sit in "none". In fact, historically, it is frowned upon to be sitting on the "none" AA. This is why there is rarely a CB given publicly before raids on unaligned nations. There seems to be no code of ethics anyone needs to "please".

[b]There is a mentality in this world that no nation has any dignity or right to life unless they are in a AA. This statement made by NEAT confronts that mentality and states that ALL nations deserve a right to life, as long as they are not harming those around them.
[/b]
Also, I do not care about "Casualties". If you want to fight, come up to my NS and rogue me. I will gladly pound you back down.
[/quote]

Cowboy, sell down and hit me, works both ways if you want to act tough, the onus is on you. If you don't care about casualties or warring then don't sit and throw stones by calling others out saying they fear to lose infra, pretty simple logic really, Especially when you have less casualties than someone who is over 300 days younger than you and has 5 times the casualties.

How is Tech raiding destroying nations? For the most part people fight at worst case scenario a week. Some may chose to not continue, others decide to thrive after and join the alliance that has raided them (has happened frequently within GOONS)

If you want to sit unprotected without back up, then that's your prerogative, I'm cool with that. But then you are opening yourself up to people who like to raid and war. This has always been the case and always will be the case, nothing you or others will do is going to change that. Sitting collecting stats is dysfunctional. this [OOC]game[OOC] peaks when war happens and stagnates when there is prolonged periods of peace.

If you care about none nations being raided then put a public statement up that your protecting all none nations and see where that leads you. If a None wants protection all he has to do is join an alliance or even go onto the maroon trading sphere, they guys have pretty much stated they grant anyone access to that. Now if a nation that is on none doesn't want the hassle of doing that, or finding out that information, or at bare minimum interact on the owf, then I just don't value them as a ruler in the slightest.

You're going to denounce tech raiders as evil, I will always denounce game stagnation due to stat collectors or peace loving hippies evil.

Regarding the bolded, that's all fine and well you making statements about life and all the good jazz, but you lack the ability to change it or enforce it and thus they are just words.

Edited September 14, 2011 by Hiro Nakara

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='USMC123' timestamp='1316025048' post='2800456']
Welp. Guess we're not getting a MDP with NEAT any time soon.
[/quote]


Are you that bothered though, really?

[iamwalrus]

"You're going to denounce tech raiders as evil, I will always denounce game stagnation due to stat collectors or peace loving hippies evil. "

This is your statement that I protest. There is no place in this forum for your OOC comment about a "game". Like I said, I have no problem with you defending tech raiding in character. If you want to discuss how it effects the game, do so in the OW RP, not in Alliance Announcements.

As for your "pride in casualties"; I have no concern. I do not rely on casualty numbers to secure my confidence in my fighting abilities.

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='iamwalrus' timestamp='1316027621' post='2800479']
"You're going to denounce tech raiders as evil, I will always denounce game stagnation due to stat collectors or peace loving hippies evil. "

This is your statement that I protest. There is no place in this forum for your OOC comment about a "game". Like I said, I have no problem with you defending tech raiding in character. If you want to discuss how it effects the game, do so in the OW RP, not in Alliance Announcements.

As for your "pride in casualties"; I have no concern. I do not rely on casualty numbers to secure my confidence in my fighting abilities.
[/quote]


But your happy if I just say I like tech raiding because I smash nations and take their land and tech and profit? Acquisition is paramount.

Why say I'm afraid to lose stats then? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and just put it down to a bad moment and that you really didn't bother to check who you were throwing that accusation at. No probs I accept that.

Edited September 14, 2011 by Hiro Nakara

[iamwalrus]

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1316027715' post='2800480']
But your happy if I just say I like tech raiding because I smash nations and take their land and tech and profit?
[/quote]


Yes, because that is showing the character which you are role playing in this "game." Just like Comrade Craig justifies his as his calling to being a "true commie" but liberating tech from capitalist pigs.

I am ok with you being a bully [i]in character[/i] who gets pleasure out of exploiting the weak. I disagree with it, but at least we can be honest about it.

*edit* I know what nation is yours and I checked it out. I said you were afraid to lose stats, because if you purely liked the thrill of warring, then you could war a friend. However, you don't war friends or nations in alliances who can destroy you. Thus, your actions suggest you choose targets based on whether or not you can defeat them or get easy tech without too much damage in return.

Edited September 14, 2011 by iamwalrus

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='iamwalrus' timestamp='1316028042' post='2800483']
Yes, because that is showing the character which you are role playing in this "game." Just like Comrade Craig justifies his as his calling to being a "true commie" but liberating tech from capitalist pigs.

I am ok with you being a bully [i]in character[/i] who gets pleasure out of exploiting the weak. I disagree with it, but at least we can be honest about it.
[/quote]


So in effect I could call you cowardly and peace loving because your nation does not like redistribution of wealth from the weak.

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='iamwalrus' timestamp='1316028042' post='2800483']
Yes, because that is showing the character which you are role playing in this "game." Just like Comrade Craig justifies his as his calling to being a "true commie" but liberating tech from capitalist pigs.

I am ok with you being a bully [i]in character[/i] who gets pleasure out of exploiting the weak. I disagree with it, but at least we can be honest about it.

*edit* I know what nation is yours and I checked it out. I said you were afraid to lose stats, because if you purely liked the thrill of warring, then you could war a friend. However, you don't war friends or nations in alliances who can destroy you. Thus, your actions suggest you choose targets based on whether or not you can defeat them or get easy tech without too much damage in return.
[/quote]


You do know I declared on omasnams an ex gremlin member with 10k tech to my 3 yes? Do you know the damage a 10k tech nation does with a WRC? You do know that pretty much 100% of the people I have fought have had nukes yes? So limiting damage is hardly the case. Again you really should think before you start saying tripe like that.

Edit for clarity, I didn't begin raiding until I was much larger. so It wasn't defenceless little small nations. Just thought I'd point that one out before you come out with some other mad comment.

Edited September 14, 2011 by Hiro Nakara

[iamwalrus]

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1316028405' post='2800488']
You do know I declared on omasnams an ex gremlin member with 10k tech to my 3 yes? Do you know the damage a 10k tech nation does with a WRC? You do know that pretty much 100% of the people I have fought have had nukes yes? So limiting damage is hardly the case. Again you really should think before you start saying tripe like that.

Edit for clarity, I didn't begin raiding until I was much larger. so It wasn't defenceless little small nations. Just thought I'd point that one out before you come out with some other mad comment.
[/quote]

Then it seems like you shouldn't have a problem finding war...Why don't you war now?

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='iamwalrus' timestamp='1316029101' post='2800495']
Then it seems like you shouldn't have a problem finding war...Why don't you war now?
[/quote]


I choose when I want to war. Was your head buried in the sand recently? I just went from 9k infra to 36 infra and 3.5k tech to 200 tech, 6k land to 2k land yadda yadda, It's called rebuilding, alien concept for someone who has not really been engaged in long-term warfare I like to build back up then war so I'm not fighting piddly small nations ohh what a big bad raider I am.

If the next war doesn't kick off by the time I rebuild and get my WC then I will rogue on a suitable nation. Is that okay for you

So recap: We have went from you don't like to lose stats, to oops I didn't really know who I was directing that at, to why don't you war now then? Nice way to deflect away from the fact that you were speaking utter garbage in relation to that.

How come with your confidence in your military prowess your casualties are not higher?

Edited September 14, 2011 by Hiro Nakara

[eyriq]

I echo Comrade Craig's first point, well said.

Good to see both the principled stance from NEAT and the upgrade between two good friends.

[iamwalrus]

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1316029437' post='2800498']
So recap: We have went from you don't like to lose stats, to oops I didn't really know who I was directing that at, to why don't you war now then? Nice way to deflect away from the fact that you were speaking utter garbage in relation to that.

How come with your confidence in your military prowess your casualties are not higher?
[/quote]

No, that is totally wrong. That is how your brain processed this conversation. What actually happened is that you just confessed to being a rogue.

Why are my casualties not higher? I choose to fight in battles which are worth fighting. I don't fight for the sake of fighting, and I don't fight for power. I fight to defend integrity and friends. There is no integrity in going rogue on nations. You do not do service to your alliance or to others. There is also no integrity in destroying nations for the sake of destroying them. I seek to build community, not destroy. To preserve life, not eliminate.

Edited September 14, 2011 by iamwalrus

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='iamwalrus' timestamp='1316030764' post='2800512']
No, that is totally wrong. That is how your brain processed this conversation. What actually happened is that you just confessed to being a rogue.

Why are my casualties not higher? I choose to fight in battles which are worth fighting. I don't fight for the sake of fighting, and I don't fight for power. I fight to defend integrity and friends. There is no integrity in going rogue on nations. You do not do service to your alliance or to others. There is also no integrity in destroying nations for the sake of destroying them. I seek to build community, not destroy. To preserve life, not eliminate.
[/quote]


Right, so you love peace and you're a hippy and you dislike warfare. And no, I confessed to fighting wars with nations that have equal or larger damage giving abilities. You claimed otherwise, I was just setting you straight

I'm glad you got your treaty with friends. Denouncing Tech raiders is all swell, but it's really just words backed with no actions.

Edited September 14, 2011 by Hiro Nakara

[rattlehead]

Congrats to NEAT and SC on their treaty upgrade. Two fine alliances, one fine treaty.

[USMC123]

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1316027351' post='2800474']
Are you that bothered though, really?
[/quote]

Nope.

[Sigrun Vapneir]

[quote name='iamwalrus' timestamp='1315713824' post='2798504']
[/quote]

I applaud the spirit behind this policy.

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='USMC123' timestamp='1316035893' post='2800545']
Nope.
[/quote]

Thought that would be your answer.