Icheliebebrad

[quote name='Hereno' timestamp='1309118471' post='2742128'] Lawl. Nice timing. TORN is in trouble so they're running to DT. Unless talks have been in motion for longer than I think, which I highly doubt, because I'm so much better than everyone else in the room. Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it? Congrats on your stuff. [/quote] Talks have been going on for almost 1/2 a year lol

Glad to see this finally happen o/

Glad to see this finally happen

This is mighty awesome. Glad to be allied to such a great group of friends o/ Let the mead flow!

Congrats to two of my favorite allies.

How did I make it into gov?....

Good luck to my favorite allies o/

o/ DT o/ LoSS o/

I REQUIRE PIX OF GUTS when you can use the cam!

Shout out to maggie and LoSS! Happy?

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1298317557' post='2640847'] Anyone with half a brain who knows the history of the members of the Dark Templar would know that in a war like this one they would inevitably be on the side of the New Polar Order. I mean, VE hits NpO over a CB that, well, calling it paper thin would be an insult to your favourite paper manufacturer. Then look at who are in DT: people like Myworld and Magnet, and it doesn't take a genius to work out which side they're going to be on. I still find it a bit strange how DT doesn't have a treaty with the Polars. Oh well. [/quote] We did not come in on a 'side.' We came in to help our allies, LoSS. We don't have a treaty with NpO because we don't want one. No love/no hate towards them. Just neutrality. Nice try, though.

o/ Conorea o/ congrats!

I insulted them, but that does not reflect my alliance as a whole. Furthermore, that quote was what...two weeks ago? My opinion of LoSS has since changed.

Congrats to everybody on their new appointments! o/

First off, grammar is not my strong suit so bare with me. Anyways, I wanted to comment on my views of the war and let you know a little more about The Dark Templar. I'm not going to get into politics, so if that's what you're looking for please leave now. This war has been one of my favorite moments in Cybernations so far in my 4 1/2 years playing. I personally play this game because of the community I'm in (Dark Templar) I would go to ZI and back for all of my alliance mates, and I know they would do the same for me. This is how we DT started. A good chunk of DT first met at Oasis, then moved on to SOUL, where we met a lot of our current members in various BLEU alliances. At SOUL, we decided to merge with TPC and form SOLID. We didn't know it at the time, but that was a huge mistake. Supa, Deathsmile, PuLsE, and myself decided to split off and form our own alliance based on our own beliefs. We wanted a tight-knit brotherhood of members who had the same goals.(DT) We started off small, and slowly gained members. One of the best members we gained was Myworld, who helped us step-up our finance and economics with his knowledge of nation building. (I want to give a big shoutout to PC for helping us in the early days. Regardless of our situation now, I still have great respect for their alliance as they are very similar to us from a military POV) Anyways, we got bigger and focused our attention on military. We decided to start saving big warchests so we could fight long, drawn out wars. One of our goal is to one day have every member with a WRC, MP, HNMS, SDI, etc. Lastly, we started purchasing as much tech as we can. We knew that if we ever got dogpiled, we would deal out more damage than we would take. A lot of our nations are older with a lot of wonders, so we know rebuilding will be easy for us. We also have great allies who we know will send aid to our smaller nations as well. We aren't afraid of war. We welcome the casualties. Who doesn't love casualties?! Anyways, I want to give a few personal shoutouts to some alliances. Nordreich - Awesome allies. Thor, Eisen, Zepp, pd73, etc. You are the best allies you could ever ask for Nueva Vida - We have been allies since the BLEU days. You guys are an awesome bunch as well. Symphony - We haven't been allied that long, but I know we would go to ZI and back for you and you would do the same. You guys have an awesome community over there. Valhalla - boobs, boobs, boobs, and more boobs. You guys are hilarious and I'm glad we got closer after we fought each other. More people should get to know you guys, they'd be surprised how cool you really are. Anddddddddd that's about it. Have fun in your wars, and enjoy gaining your casualties!

We optionally came in against Legacy, not you. You declared war on us. Now, on to my next point. Your treaty with Legacy has a non-chaining clause. So, you came in on an OPTIONAL treaty that you did not have to honor. Way to be hypocritical here, goose.

Glad to see this happen!

Sup back at you?

[center][img]http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t263/Supa_Troop3r/testflagwg2.jpg[/img] [size="5"][b]The Dark Templar[/b][/size][/center] Greetings Planet Bob, Over the past few days, as many of you have probably noticed, our small alliance has become part of a large-scale political debacle with the Commonwealth of Sovereign Nations. Before we delve into the issues that have been discussed and debated in announcements, blogs and back channels, let us first set the stage with the history leading up to this event. Many ideas and half-truths are being bandied about on this topic and we would like to take this opportunity to set the record straight on the world stage. The Dark Templar, in our several years of existence, has never once had a foreign affairs dispute with CSN. We have never disliked them, we did not come into this with a grudge against them nor do we bear any ill will towards them. DT's entrance into this conflict is based on but one thing: our friendship and optional defense pact with the League of Small Superpowers and their request for us to activate that pact to come to their aid. Now, let's back up for a moment and focus on LoSS' involvement in this war briefly. LoSS entered in defense of their ally TIO, who was attacked by Hydra. LoSS' attack on Hydra drew in Hydra's allies: BRAIN, Legacy and, of course, CSN. At this point we can come back to DT's involvement. LoSS told us that the opponent that they had the most difficulty with was Legacy, so we chose to counter against Legacy in the defense of LoSS. Immediately after our declaration of war and pursuant blitz on Legacy, CSN declared war on DT in honor of their defense pact with Legacy. Fast forward a war cycle and both sides have taken quite some damage. It is at this point that TIO, Hydra and LoSS agreed to white peace. Given the fact that the chain that brought LoSS, DT, Legacy, BRAIN and CSN all into this front was severed, it was only logical that peace would be sought at this point, considering the fact that the only reason any of these alliances had fought in the first place was purely honoring a treaty obligation - not any sort of animosity or offensive acts. This is where we get to the peace talks between the remaining combatants of this front: DT, LoSS (who have honorably remained in the war because they do not want to leave an ally who came to their defense out in the cold and we thank them for that), CSN, Legacy and The Brain. On February the 5th, DT and LoSS approached these alliances for what we presumed would be white peace and reasonable end to a peripheral conflict in what is a much larger war. The full logs are incredibly long, so we are going to snip the idle chit-chat that went on for quite some time between the initiation of talks. If anyone is interested in getting the full logs, we will not hesitate to send them to you. This particular snip is only for the purpose of saving space and time. (OOC: Personal IP information and the channel name will be in all logs, of course, redacted) [spoiler][22:15] <Goose|warmonger|> 1) Dark Templar hereby surrender to The Commonwealth of Sovereign Nations and Legacy (hereafter referred to as DT, CSN and Legacy). As an instrument of surrender, DT will pay 40,000 technology to CSN. [22:15] <Goose|warmonger|> 1.5) Only DT nations with over 2,000 technology at the time of signing this will be elligible to send out technology as reparations. CSN shall provide the approved list to DT and monitor the aid. [22:15] <Goose|warmonger|> 2) The Dark Templar shall refrain from re-entering the NpO-VE conflict or any wars resulting from it (this includes the NPO-Doomhouse front). [22:15] <Goose|warmonger|> 3) These terms will last a period of three months. During those three months the Dark Templar will be under the protection of CSN and Legacy. If all reparations are not paid by the time these terms expire, the peace and all payments will be considered void. [22:18] <Supa_Troop3r[DT]> Yah I don't think we will be agreeing to that. But I'll post it up in our gov. [22:18] <Goose|warmonger|> Okay. [22:19] <Goose|warmonger|> These are the terms. It matters not when you take it. [22:19] <Liz> The number remains the same Supa. Whether it happens now or in 3 weeks from now. Is that the point of disagreement? 03[22:20] * Xiphosis[GOD] has joined #channel [22:20] <Xiphosis[GOD]> So I don't have to bother with terms for FHU yet? [22:20] <Supa_Troop3r[DT]> Were not going to pay you anything, our policy is to not accept reps. Seeing as we never offer them. [22:20] <Xiphosis[GOD]> Oh good. 06[22:20] * Goose|warmonger| shrugs [22:20] <Supa_Troop3r[DT]> But aye as I said. I'll post it up. [22:21] <Liz> Told you we should've used the other copy. [22:21] <Xiphosis[GOD]> Haha. [22:21] <Xiphosis[GOD]> Either way it's a good result Liz. Be happy. [22:21] <Supa_Troop3r[DT]> I might get over ruled by the rest of my gov 03[22:23] * Xiphosis[GOD] has left #channel (Call me when the failures break.) [22:24] <Supa_Troop3r[DT]> Oh and, tell Xiph, tht he needs to get with you, To group in FHU [22:24] <Supa_Troop3r[DT]> Cause we will be leaving the front together if/when we do. [22:26] <Liz> Message relayed. [22:26] <Sarmatian[Legacy]> <Xiphosis[GOD]> I know. I have no issues grinding FHU into the dust for as long as DT holds out though. [22:26] <Sarmatian[Legacy]> <Xiphosis[GOD]> In fact, it amuses me a lot to do it. [22:26] <Sarmatian[Legacy]> <Xiphosis[GOD]> Go ahead and paste him that. [22:28] <Supa_Troop3r[DT]> Okay. 02[22:32] * Hetman[Legacy] Quit (Quit: [url=http://www.mibbit.com]http://www.mibbit.com[/url] ajax IRC Client) 03[22:32] * Portiabeth[Legacy] has left #channel 03[22:37] * Sarmatian[Legacy] has left #channel Session Close: Sat Feb 05 22:47:25 2011[/spoiler] If you do not want to read those, here is a summary. Essentially, CSN demanded 40,000 technology from DT's nations with 2,000 tech or more as reparations. This amount was to be paid in under three months time; if DT did not pay the desired amount by said deadline, all payments would be considered null and void and war would be declared once again. Naturally, DT was taken aback by such an exorbitant sum as well as the conditions under which its transmission would be governed. After all, per capita, these reparations were over 850 tech per member of DT, which is far more than NPO was forced to pay after they were defeated in the Karma War. This rate, of course, is neglecting the condition that all of this tech must be paid by nations possessing over 2,000 technology. Bringing that into the equation, the rate per capita is 1666.66 tech. The total number would equate to roughly one-quarter of our pre-war tech. Not only is this number absurd, reps of this magnitude are unheard of up to this point in time on Planet Bob. Regardless, Supa_Troop3r said he would post it up on our forums in good faith, though he did say that he expected the rest of the government to shoot it down. Not very long after, talks resumed in that channel, with DT's government wondering two things. Why are there reps at all, given the nature of this war being that of a peripheral conflict that was only created because of a treaty chain and given the fact that these reps exist, why are they of such a magnitude? Here are the logs of that conversation, in this case, only snipped where privacy requires us to. [spoiler]Session Start: Sat Feb 05 22:57:59 2011 Session Ident: #channel 03[22:57] * Now talking in #channel 03[22:58] * Myworld[dt] has joined #channel 03[22:58] * Retrieving #channel modes... [23:05] <Myworld[dt]> Look guys DT didn't declare on CSN. How do you figure on the 40k of reps? [23:06] <Myworld[dt]> We followed treaties just like every other aa out there expect Sparta [23:06] <Liz> You went in on an optional treaty. During peace talks. [23:07] <Myworld[dt]> We were green lighted by LoSS to declare [23:07] <Myworld[dt]> We had no knowlege of peace talks [23:07] <Liz> Then the blame lies in poor taste in ally. That was on them to tell you. [23:07] <Myworld[dt]> We still didn't declare on CSN [23:08] <Myworld[dt]> CSN will get no reps [23:08] <Myworld[dt]> 1. White peace [23:08] <Myworld[dt]> 2. [23:08] <Myworld[dt]> DT shall refrain from committing any further acts of warfare upon any alliance who is engaged in combat with the New Polar Order or the New Pacific Order, or any collateral alliance who has declared war, by whatever means, in support of aforementioned combatants or in support of any party who has entered into conflict in support of those same combatants. [23:08] <Supa_Troop3r[DT]> So the fault for LoSS not telling us? If Us pay reps to CSN [23:08] <Supa_Troop3r[DT]> Logic you has it. 03[23:09] * Xiphosis[GOD] has joined #channel 03[23:10] * bud has joined #channel [23:10] <Liz> Hello Bud. [23:10] <Myworld[dt]> hey bud [23:11] <bud> Heya Liz Myworld [23:11] <Xiphosis[GOD]> bud [23:12] <bud> heya xiph [23:12] <bud> if i didnt know better this almost feels like the old maroon chan [23:12] <Xiphosis[GOD]> except for the little black specs [23:13] <bud> lol [23:14] <Supa_Troop3r[DT]> I still don't see how you figure 40k tech [23:14] <Xiphosis[GOD]> You don't really have to see. [23:14] <Myworld[dt]> I could understand if we declared on CSN [23:14] <Xiphosis[GOD]> That's the cool part about surrender. [23:14] <Myworld[dt]> But we did not [23:14] <Myworld[dt]> We declared on Legacy and they want no reps [23:14] <Xiphosis[GOD]> Wars a dice roll. You guys rolled it on !@#$%^&* and you pay the price for it. [23:15] <Xiphosis[GOD]> Or you don't, but either way, I'm pretty fine with it. [23:15] <Supa_Troop3r[DT]> Lmao [23:15] <Myworld[dt]> What bs we had a treaty with LoSS that is valid and they asked for our help. [23:15] <Xiphosis[GOD]> Again - the beauty of surrender. [23:15] <Xiphosis[GOD]> You had an ODP. [23:15] <Xiphosis[GOD]> Lol. [23:15] <Myworld[dt]> It's still a treaty [23:15] <Xiphosis[GOD]> Good for you. [23:15] <Xiphosis[GOD]> It's a !@#$%^&* reason to enter a GW unless you're Looking for an excuse. [23:16] <Xiphosis[GOD]> It didn't work out. [23:16] <Xiphosis[GOD]> Boo hoo. [23:16] <bud> so the going rate for an ODP is 40k tech for an alliance that got called in? 01[23:16] <TiTaN[DT]> Sorry, we won't honor treaties next time >_> [23:16] <Xiphosis[GOD]> If it was me it'd be no terms, tbh. [23:16] <Xiphosis[GOD]> If someone hit me with an ODP or a PIAT [23:16] <Xiphosis[GOD]> They'd be put down 01[23:16] <TiTaN[DT]> Your logic is failed there 01[23:16] <TiTaN[DT]> We didn't hit them 01[23:16] <TiTaN[DT]> They hit us [23:17] <Xiphosis[GOD]> You hit Legacy. It'd be the same as me hitting FHU. [23:17] <Xiphosis[GOD]> Oh wait. [23:17] <Xiphosis[GOD]> I did. [23:17] <Xiphosis[GOD]> Either way the 40k tech goes. [23:18] <Xiphosis[GOD]> Legacy doesn't want it, so CSN takes it. If you could delete it, that'd be fine too. [23:18] <Xiphosis[GOD]> The point is a pound of flesh. 03[23:18] * Hetman[Legacy] has joined #channel [23:18] <Hetman[Legacy]> Did I miss anything? [23:18] <Hetman[Legacy]> [23:18] <Myworld[dt]> 1. White Peace [23:18] <Myworld[dt]> 2. DT shall refrain from committing any further acts of warfare upon any alliance who is engaged in combat with the New Polar Order or the New Pacific Order, or any collateral alliance who has declared war, by whatever means, in support of aforementioned combatants or in support of any party who has entered into conflict in support of those same combatants. [23:19] <Myworld[dt]> Those are fair terms. [23:19] <Xiphosis[GOD]> Hey [23:19] <Supa_Troop3r[DT]> Your logic is all kinds of $%&@ed up Xiph [23:19] <Xiphosis[GOD]> Myworld. [23:19] <Xiphosis[GOD]> You don't get to write your own surrender terms. [23:19] <Xiphosis[GOD]> That's not part of surrendering. [23:19] <Gibsonator21> surrendering isnt fair if i recall [23:19] <Xiphosis[GOD]> ^ [23:19] <Xiphosis[GOD]> Nor is hitting someone on an ODP. [23:20] <bud> So who are they surrendering too GOD or CSN? [23:20] <Myworld[dt]> You don't get to put reps in on your attacks either, when we didn't declare on you. You asked for the damage when you declared on us. [23:20] <Xiphosis[GOD]> They want FHU out at the same time. [23:20] <Xiphosis[GOD]> And since I wrote those terms, they can direct their complaints at me. [23:20] <Supa_Troop3r[DT]> Oh? So CSN is run by you! [23:20] <Supa_Troop3r[DT]> Thanks [23:20] <Xiphosis[GOD]> CSN told me what they wanted, I put it into text. [23:20] <Xiphosis[GOD]> [23:20] <Xiphosis[GOD]> Because I've done this before. [23:21] <Myworld[dt]> So have they [23:21] <Xiphosis[GOD]> And I'll just say Echelon's amount was a full 50% higher than what CSN's asking. [23:21] <Liz> [23:20] <Supa_Troop3r[DT]> Oh? So CSN is run by you! <--- My bad, busy eating a bagel [23:21] <Hetman[Legacy]> lol [23:21] <Liz> :priorities: [23:21] <bud> Echelon was a hell of a lot different [23:21] <Xiphosis[GOD]> Maybe. 01[23:21] <TiTaN[DT]> Echelon is 3x ou r size lol [23:21] <bud> they $%&@ed with MA and Kait [23:21] <Xiphosis[GOD]> .. [23:21] <Xiphosis[GOD]> and that means a lot to you and me. [23:21] <bud> DT honored a treaty [23:21] <Xiphosis[GOD]> !@#$@#$ with Legacy means a lot to CSN. [23:21] <Xiphosis[GOD]> No they didn't. [23:22] <Myworld[dt]> Yes we did 01[23:22] <TiTaN[DT]> We didn't? [23:22] <Xiphosis[GOD]> You don't honor ODPs. You use them at will and as you want. [23:22] <Xiphosis[GOD]> They're excuses or stepping stones to more obligatory treaties. Always have been. [23:22] <Myworld[dt]> We honor what we put our names too [23:22] <Supa_Troop3r[DT]> So, Hmm NOIR isn't a a treaty? [23:22] <Supa_Troop3r[DT]> And a bloc? [23:22] <Supa_Troop3r[DT]> That makes sense [23:22] <bud> So if a spam member asked for help you wouldnt help them? [23:22] <Xiphosis[GOD]> NOIR is a cluster$%&@. [23:22] <Xiphosis[GOD]> And you know it. [23:22] <Xiphosis[GOD]> $%&@ no. USN's in SPAM and you damn well know it. [23:22] <Xiphosis[GOD]> I help people I obligate myself to help. [23:22] <bud> aside from USN [23:23] <Xiphosis[GOD]> If they're in SPAM and not USN and worth helping in all situations, they get bumped up to CA - an actual MDP. [23:23] <Xiphosis[GOD]> Also something you know full well. [23:23] <bud> it takes time to get there [23:23] <bud> you dont make CA over night [23:23] <Xiphosis[GOD]> that's literally how CA was made [23:23] <Xiphosis[GOD]> also something you know 01[23:24] <TiTaN[DT]> Section 3. 01[23:24] <TiTaN[DT]> A declaration of war by a third party upon a signatory to this treaty shall serve as a casus belli for all other signatories. NOIR members are encouraged, but not required, to come to the defense and aid by any means possible. [23:24] <bud> yeah my sig is still there via kait i do know but saying this wasnt a legit enterance is BS and you know it [23:24] <Xiphosis[GOD]> No, lol, it's not !@#$%^&*. [23:25] <Xiphosis[GOD]> And I'm not even going out of my way to justify it. No one takes getting hit by ODP/PIATs lightly. [23:25] <Xiphosis[GOD]> And it's !@#$@#$ childish to !@#$%* about it. [23:25] <Xiphosis[GOD]> I wouldn't want someone to hit me on one and neither would you. And I damn well would go hard on them for it if they lost. [23:25] <bud> LOL i have been hit by them remember the chain across bob [23:25] <Xiphosis[GOD]> I know - so have I. [23:25] <Xiphosis[GOD]> And you know what I did to them for it lol [23:26] <Xiphosis[GOD]> DT's getting tech reps [23:26] <Xiphosis[GOD]> That's a mercy lol [23:26] <bud> no its vengance [23:26] <Xiphosis[GOD]> Anytime an alliance makes a conscious choice, under no obligation, to bring war to you they should be prepared for the worst. [23:26] <Xiphosis[GOD]> That's just basic. [23:26] <Myworld[dt]> DT didnt' bring war to you or CSN [23:26] <bud> ill write that downn [23:26] <Myworld[dt]> You came to us [23:27] <Liz> No, you brought us to you. [23:27] <Myworld[dt]> no [23:27] <Myworld[dt]> Try our OP of our DoW 01[23:27] <TiTaN[DT]> link me to your treaty 01[23:27] <TiTaN[DT]> do you have to come in EVERY time legacy is hit? [23:27] <Xiphosis[GOD]> No. You hit an alliance I'm quite fond of, and one whom CSN is treatied to. You then sicked your !@#$ little protectorate on CSN as well, and I responded to the attack on my ally - whom I'm obligated to defend. 01[23:27] <TiTaN[DT]> or is there a chaining clause? [23:27] <Myworld[dt]> It says we declared on Legacy [23:28] <Xiphosis[GOD]> But you know what? I'm not arguing this. [23:28] <Supa_Troop3r[DT]> Well have fun getting the tech from our GA's [23:28] <Xiphosis[GOD]> I'm not arguing the terms, and I'm not arguing the war. It is the opinion of the front that DT entered on an optional basis aggressively, and that it warrants punishment. [23:29] <Xiphosis[GOD]> Call me when you're ready to accept. [23:29] <Xiphosis[GOD]> 03[23:29] * Xiphosis[GOD] has left #channel 01[23:29] <TiTaN[DT]> lol [23:29] <Myworld[dt]> Aggressive for Defence? 03[23:29] * Supa_Troop3r[DT] has left #channel 01[23:29] <TiTaN[DT]> He acts as if we went to LoSS and were like "Hey, bros, want us to hit those Legacy fellas?!" lol 01[23:30] <TiTaN[DT]> I'm sorry, next time a treaty partner comes and asks us for assistance we'll just tell them no 01[23:30] <TiTaN[DT]> Does that sound good? [23:31] <Liz> If it keeps you out of these types of reps. Do what you have to do I guess 03[23:31] * Liz has left #channel [23:31] <bud> good to see full circle guess people forget about what happened in the GATO war [23:32] <Myworld[dt]> What's the use of Defense treaties if people can't call on them? [23:33] <Gibsonator21> optional* [23:33] <Myworld[dt]> It's still a treaty that can be followed in a defensive manor [23:34] <Myworld[dt]> And that is what was done. 01[23:34] <TiTaN[DT]> Can you post your Legacy/CSN treaty in here for me so we can nitpick? [23:35] <Myworld[dt]> I can see it if we used an oA to declare on Legacy or CSN, but that didn't happen. [23:35] <Myworld[dt]> We were asked by LoSS to help them, and we didn't know about any talks of peace. [23:35] <Myworld[dt]> We honored what we have as an treaty partner 01[23:35] <TiTaN[DT]> Hold on 01[23:35] <TiTaN[DT]> I got this 01[23:35] <TiTaN[DT]> Law of Legend V: Ironsoldier 01[23:35] <TiTaN[DT]> The undersigned acknowledge that Articles III and IV will be rendered optional if one or more is brought to war by way of outside treaty....just for the love of god don't get banned from the forums...it makes the MoFA job so much harder. 01[23:36] <TiTaN[DT]> So by your views you came in on us via an option clause? 01[23:37] <TiTaN[DT]> Gibsonator21, Goose|warmonger|? 03[23:37] * Supa_Troop3r[DT] has joined #channel [23:37] <Hetman[Legacy]> tl;dr [23:37] <Hetman[Legacy]> its an MDP [23:37] <Hetman[Legacy]> or something 01[23:37] <TiTaN[DT]> with optional clauses 01[23:37] <TiTaN[DT]> you didn't have to defend them [23:37] <Myworld[dt]> ^^^ 01[23:37] <TiTaN[DT]> you chose to do so 01[23:37] <TiTaN[DT]> you guys are being hypocrits now [23:38] <Hetman[Legacy]> We have it listed as a MDAoP 01[23:38] <TiTaN[DT]> however 01[23:38] <TiTaN[DT]> there is a non chaining clause 01[23:38] <TiTaN[DT]> So you did not have to defend them 01[23:38] <TiTaN[DT]> Law of Legend V: Ironsoldier 01[23:38] <TiTaN[DT]> The undersigned acknowledge that Articles III and IV will be rendered optional if one or more is brought to war by way of outside treaty....just for the love of god don't get banned from the forums...it makes the MoFA job so much harder. 01[23:39] <TiTaN[DT]> Had we dirtectly declared on you, you would be justified in your argument 01[23:39] <TiTaN[DT]> However, we were backing a treaty partner [23:39] <Hetman[Legacy]> Well I'm off to bed [23:39] <Hetman[Legacy]> Check out the Hetman clause [23:39] <Hetman[Legacy]> it's lulz 02[23:41] * Hetman[Legacy] Quit (Quit: [url=http://www.mibbit.com]http://www.mibbit.com[/url] ajax IRC Client) [23:41] <Supa_Troop3r[DT]> No response? [23:42] <Myworld[dt]> Gibsonator21 and Goose|warmonger|, let's do what's right for all sides. Call it as it is. We had all had fun defended our allies and we all walk away. Not to enter against the Doomhouse or those at war with NpO and VE. 06[23:44] * Myworld[dt] throws water on Gibsonator21 to wake Gibsonator21 up 06[23:44] * Myworld[dt] throws water on Goose|warmonger| to wake Goose|warmonger| up Session Close: Sun Feb 06 00:00:01 2011[/spoiler] As you can see, DT's government officials are essentially told that because our adversaries do not agree with optional defense pacts nor do they approve of our choice of allies, we ought to be punished. Also, they seem to believe that there was a peace agreement between them and LoSS, though we were given the green light by LoSS to proceed. Obviously, if LoSS was close to peace, they would not require to activate a defense pact. Oddly enough, the person doing the talking for the CSN side is Xiphosis, who is in GOD, an alliance that is not involved with this front of the war. It seems that he is the one dreaming up these punitive terms where no punishment is due. That is, unless entering a war on a defense pact truly is an aggressive act and if optional defense pacts truly are invalid as Xiphosis states. We in DT firmly believe that is quite obviously not the case. As it stands, it is evident that DT is pushing hard for a reasonable end to this. However, it is equally evident that CSN and Xiphosis have an agenda to either force DT into a long-term war or sabotage our upper tier of nations by extorting tech. The next time the two alliances spoke according to the logs that we can procure was February the 8th. It does seem that there was a cease fire discussed briefly somewhere before these logs. Nothing of substance is said, but for the purpose of disclosure, here they are. [spoiler][23:11] ->> You joined channel #channel2 [23:11] ->> Channel created on 2/8/2011 11:55:57 PM [23:11] <TiTaN> lol [23:11] <TiTaN> about time [23:12] <Myworld[dt]> ok [23:12] <Supa_Troop3r[Derka]> Throw it down titan [23:14] <TiTaN> Being that update is 45 min away it's kind of hard to do a ceasefire [23:15] <@Liz> Just a friendly proposal. [23:16] <@Liz> If it doesn't work it doesn't work. [23:16] <Goose|warmonger|> It can stop some attacks and anything tomorrow. [23:16] <Goose|warmonger|> Just give it a shot and not worry about if some attacks get through? [23:17] <Myworld[dt]> Never been a fan of ceasefires to many things can go wrong with them and messages messed and members taking unexcepted hits. [23:17] <Myworld[dt]> So once there is a complete agreement for both sides then war stops. [23:17] <Myworld[dt]> at that update. [23:22] <Myworld[dt]> See you guys tomorrow to talk.[/spoiler] As Myworld said, the next day, February the 9th, talks were scheduled. Here is how they went down. Some personal image links have been removed. [spoiler]Session Start: Wed Feb 09 19:56:18 2011 Session Ident:#channel2 [19:56] ->> You joined channel #channel2 [19:56] ->> Channel created on 2/8/2011 11:55:57 PM [19:57] <Myworld[dt]> howdy [19:57] <@Liz> Hello hello [19:57] <TiTaN> yo [19:57] <Goose|warmonger|> Welcome back. [19:57] <Myworld[dt]> yup [19:57] <TiTaN> just got home from work [19:57] <TiTaN> sup? [19:58] <Myworld[dt]> I take it that we're all ready to talk and get to a reasonable end? [19:58] <Goose|warmonger|> So, we've discussed the terms, and have come up with 30,000 tech. from any source (up to half of which may be paid at a rate of $3M/100 tech. at your discression), and 10,000 technology from your nations over 2,000 technology. [20:00] <Goose|warmonger|> The timeline, we're flexible with. [20:00] <Myworld[dt]> Why do you think we have to be given reps? [20:00] <Goose|warmonger|> Because you entered on a front where we had already offered white peace to LoSS. Your entry was unwarrented and unnecessary. [20:01] <Myworld[dt]> Well there was no peace accepted [20:01] <Myworld[dt]> And wasn't going to be accepted [20:02] <Myworld[dt]> So unwarranted in your view is your opinion, but not from LoSS's point of view to ask us to back them up. [20:02] <Myworld[dt]> We've had to deal with "Ghost" nations from other AA's joining in under your aa to attack us. [20:03] <Myworld[dt]> But yet CSN wants us to pay reps? [20:06] <Goose|warmonger|> Yes. [20:07] <Myworld[dt]> But yet your ally Legacy doesn't want them? And we declared on them. You asked for your war by declaring on DT. [20:07] <Myworld[dt]> Most good allies found suite of the primary alliance that they came in to defend. [20:08] <Myworld[dt]> *follow [20:08] * Goose|warmonger| shrugs [20:09] <Goose|warmonger|> While they may be willing to overlook it, I am not. You hit our treaty partner where your involvement could not have improved the outcome for LoSS in the least. [20:10] <TiTaN> We honor treaties, regardless of the outcome [20:10] <Myworld[dt]> I'd say that it did help them as both CSN and Legacy did see more loss in NS during our involvement. [20:10] <TiTaN> I don't see why that is a difficult concept to grasp lol [20:10] <Myworld[dt]> We followed a valid treaty to help LoSS our friends. [20:11] <@Liz> You agree to 40k yesterday. [20:11] <@Liz> Today we lower those and you debate it? [20:11] <@Liz> Are you dense? [20:11] <Myworld[dt]> huh? When did we agree to 40k? [20:12] <@Liz> You might want to work on those communication issues. [20:12] <TiTaN> We did, however it had to come from an outside source [20:12] <TiTaN> the issue here is that you are trying to make it come from 2k or more nations [20:12] <@Liz> Less than the 40k we wanted from your 2k nations initially. [20:12] <@Liz> It's gracious. Consider it such. [20:12] * Goose|warmonger| has left #channel2 [20:12] <TiTaN> I don't see why it has to come from 2k tech nations, though? [20:13] <@Liz> Goose has left the building. I guess we're done here. [20:14] <TiTaN> k [20:18] <@Liz> So TiTaN, what kinda sperrys do you rock [20:18] <TiTaN> I have some pix [20:18] <TiTaN> one min lol [20:18] <@Liz> I just helped REDACTED pick out a pair a few weeks ago. [20:18] <@Liz> Junior year and he's buying his first pair. Been around for 2 years. For shame. [20:20] <TiTaN> REDACTED LINK [20:20] <TiTaN> those are my most recent [20:20] <TiTaN> I have the oatmeals and brown ones too [20:21] <@Liz> Oh I like those. [20:21] <@Liz> I hate hate hate black sperrys. [20:21] <@Liz> So much. [20:21] <@Liz> Love the color though [20:22] <TiTaN> yeah i wouldn't rock the black ones lol [20:28] <Myworld[dt]> So is he coming back to contine talks? [20:31] <Gibsonator21> <~Goose|warmonger|> If he's sincere about working out a schedule to pay the reparations I'll return, if he wants to debate the merits of us wanting reps, I've got better things to do. [20:31] <Myworld[dt]> We'll agree to 10k of tech paid at a rate of 3m/100 from any nation from any source over a 3 month time frame. [20:32] <@Liz> Total total? [20:32] * Goose|warmonger| has joined #channel2 [20:32] <@Liz> 10k total* [20:32] <@Liz> my friggin delete button sucks. [20:33] <Myworld[dt]> Yes 10k tech total [20:33] <Carta> I'm here now btw [20:33] <Carta> >.> [20:34] <Goose|warmonger|> So, you go from willing to pay the 40k from any source yesterday down to only 10k from any source today? [20:35] <Myworld[dt]> Which one of us said we'd pay 40k of tech to CSN. We didn't have talks yesterday with you. [20:36] <@Liz> [20:10] <Myworld[dt]> huh? When did we agree to 40k? [20:36] <@Liz> [20:11] <Liz> You might want to work on those communication issues. [20:36] <@Liz> [20:11] <TiTaN> We did, however it had to come from an outside source [20:36] <@Liz> [20:11] <TiTaN> the issue here is that you are trying to make it come from 2k or more nations [20:38] <@Liz> Communication issues again? [20:38] <Carta> So why 10k tech direct sending? And not buying? [20:39] <Myworld[dt]> Apparently, cause I wasn't aware we hand any offical talks with CSN yesterday? [20:39] <@Liz> Well, I'd work on that. It seems to be the trend in this war. [20:40] <@Liz> The official offer is what now? [20:40] <Carta> Liz. [20:40] <Myworld[dt]> Cause I didn't agree to 40k before last night and still wouldn't and not even close to accepting 30k. [20:40] <Goose|warmonger|> 40k total tech. 30k from any source. 10k coming from the nations with over 2k tech. [20:41] <@Liz> Thanks Goose. [20:41] <Goose|warmonger|> Then why the hell is TiTaN telling us you'd accept teh 40k in reps if it can come from any source? [20:41] <Carta> Again. [20:41] <Carta> Why 10k coming from nations with over 2k? tech? [20:41] <@Liz> Because its the term we stipulated. [20:41] <@Liz> If you don't like it you don't have to accept it. [20:41] <Goose|warmonger|> Because we want them to have a little less tech. [20:42] <Carta> Ah okay thanks [20:42] <Carta> Dont give me a piss poor answer Liz [20:42] <Carta> Thank you goose [20:42] <@Liz> Lol. I'll give whatever answer I damn well please. [20:43] <Carta> :rollseyes: [20:44] <Myworld[dt]> If you want 40k of blood tech then it will come from anyone we want it to come from at any size over a 6 month time frame. [20:45] <Goose|warmonger|> 10k will have to come from your nations over 2k, and a 6 month timeframe would be acceptable. [20:45] <Myworld[dt]> Will will come from any size [20:45] <Myworld[dt]> No limit [20:46] * Liz is now known as Liz[CSnowN] [20:47] * Liz[CSnowN] is now known as Liz [20:48] <Myworld[dt]> 30k from anywhere, 10k from DT from any nation, over 6 months. [20:53] <Carta> I to be honest, don't see point unless CSN has some grudge with us, why for the 10k from DT directly. If we buy you the tech I don't see the difference? [20:53] <Carta> Unless as I said you have a grudge with us and want to make this personal [20:54] <Goose|warmonger|> It got personal when you declared on our former protectorate, and MDP partner that was fighting at our side on a front where white peace was offered already. [20:54] <Myworld[dt]> And wasn't accepted due to TIO [20:54] <TiTaN> They declined the peace lol [20:54] <Carta> They don't seem to think it is, seeing as they want to give us white peace, have talked of a cease fire [20:55] <Carta> So, I'm glad we have cleared it up that this is personal. [20:55] <Myworld[dt]> Especially when we have friends in Legacy as well. [20:56] <Carta> And not strictly business. So it's all opinions and emotion based for these terms [20:56] <Myworld[dt]> Many of them were part of alliances that were in NOIR. [20:57] <Carta> So.. what do you say on us just buying you tech? instead of sending you tech? [21:00] <Carta> You will get the tech you are asking for none the less [21:06] <Carta> *cricket* [21:07] <Goose|warmonger|> We're pretty set on 10k from your 24 nations over 2k tech. [21:07] <Myworld[dt]> Balls in your court guys: 30k tech from anywhere, 10k purchased by DT sent to CSN, over a 6 month time frame. [21:25] <Goose|warmonger|> 30k tech. from anywhere, with 10k form your 24 nations that have over 2,000 over a period of 6 months. [21:25] <Myworld[dt]> Balls in your court guys: 30k tech from anywhere, 10k purchased by DT sent to CSN, over a 6 month time frame. [21:25] * Goose|warmonger| has left #channel2 [21:29] <Myworld[dt]> You guys still get your tech no matter how you it comes to you. It's bad enough that you'll look silly taking reps when the primary alliance is not asking for it. [21:29] * Liz is now known as Liz[CSNotHere] [21:41] * Liz[CSNotHere] is now known as Liz [21:48] * TiTaN is now known as Alpha_Qaeda [21:56] * Carta is now known as Supa_Troop3r[Taliban] [22:10] ->> You are now known as Jihad_Myworld [22:11] ->> You are now known as Myworld-Mohammed [22:15] * Supa_Troop3r[Taliban] is now known as Supallah[DT] [22:29] ->> You are now known as Myworld_MuadDib [22:57] * Alpha_Qaeda is now known as TiTaN [23:00] * Supallah[DT] is now known as Supa_Derka[DT] [23:59] * TiTaN has left #channel2[/spoiler] It is at this point that we see the open malice and greed that CSN's government officials seem to harbor here. Goose demonstrates that CSN's government is not even willing to discuss the reasoning for this harsh treatment; when he was questioned, he left the channel, saying that he would return when DT stopped trying to discuss the reasons rather than the amount. And, considering that DT is an alliance that has many nations of wealth, our government officials were even willing to bite the bullet for the sake of peace and give CSN their technology, with the condition that it can come from anywhere. CSN would still gain 40,000 tech, however, DT's upper tier would not be sabotaged. CSN plainly said that they would prefer if DT had less technology. It is at this point that DT resolved that we may be forced to fight a long-term guerrilla war and we donned our Taliban-esque signatures, avatars and IRC monikers. This brings us to the most recent set of talks, in which DT proposed what we believe many of you feel are consistent and fair terms of peace. The myths that have been circulated about CSN and DT agreeing to a deal in which we purchased 30,000 tech for CSN from elsewhere and sent them 10,000 tech from within are not true, as Goose confirms in these logs. As always, privacy information is redacted and in this case, profanity in the form of the f-word being uttered by Liz is filtered: [spoiler]Session Start: Fri Feb 11 19:23:23 2011 Session Ident:#channel2 [19:23] ->> You joined channel #channel2 [19:23] ->> Channel created on 2/10/2011 8:26:01 AM [19:30] * Goose|warmonger| has joined #channel2 [20:32] * Liz is now known as Liz[CSNotHere] [20:53] <Goose|warmonger|> So, where are we on the agreed upon reps? [21:01] <Gibsonator21> Supa_Troop3r[DT], Myworld[DT], TiTaN? [21:04] <Myworld[DT]> Their AFK for awhile [21:05] <Myworld[DT]> So I'm really the only one on line currently. [21:06] <Myworld[DT]> But as far as the reps from the other day, there's no agreement there. [21:06] <Goose|warmonger|> Okay. [21:19] * Gibsonator21 is now known as Gibby[Query] [21:24] * Goose|warmonger| Quit ( Quit: ) [21:32] <Myworld[DT]> one is at the movies, and the other is at the casino [21:33] <Myworld[DT]> They'll be back eventually here. [22:19] * Gibby[Query] is now known as Gibsonator21 [22:36] * Liz[CSNotHere] is now known as Liz [22:51] * GeneralOzujsko[DT] has joined #channel2 [22:52] <Myworld[DT]> ok guys sorry for the waiting. You guys up for it now? [22:53] * Goose|warmonger| has joined #channel2 [22:53] <Myworld[DT]> Hey Goose|warmonger| sorry for the waiting them and the fun outside [22:54] <Goose|warmonger|> Fun outside? [22:54] <TiTaN> lol [22:54] <TiTaN> I was outtttt son [22:54] <TiTaN> It's friday night o/ [22:54] <TiTaN> Anyways, what's up? [22:54] <Goose|warmonger|> Where do we stand on a peace agreement. You'd offered 30k from anywhere and 10k internally, which we agreed to yesterday. [22:55] <Myworld[DT]> With you walking away from it wasn't an agreement [22:56] <Goose|warmonger|> I know, and I mentioned to TiTaN yesterday that we'd agree to it. Am I right in assuming that you no longer wish to agree to this? [22:56] <TiTaN> Correct [22:56] <Myworld[DT]> you walked off when it was on the table the other day. You come back to us after update and what to do it? Is unacceptable. [22:57] <Goose|warmonger|> It was not a matter of update, but getting in touch with people and discussing it. [22:57] <Myworld[DT]> There was no mention of you or anyone talking about it. [22:57] <Myworld[DT]> You left the channel [22:57] <Myworld[DT]> without a word [22:58] <Goose|warmonger|> We need to let you know any time we discuss peace terms amongst ourselves? At the time, we were not planning on accepting it. We discussed it and decided it would be acceptable. [22:59] <Myworld[DT]> At least a note that you would need to discuss it would of been acceptable [22:59] <Liz> Hey TiTaN [22:59] <Liz> Whats up man [22:59] <TiTaN> Heya [22:59] <TiTaN> Nothin [22:59] <TiTaN> about to go back out here soon [22:59] <TiTaN> you? [23:00] <Liz> Doing my make up and trying to go out haha. [23:00] <Goose|warmonger|> My apologies, but we did not leave with the intent of discussing it, but refusing it. [23:00] <Myworld[DT]> ok so it wasn't an agreement then [23:00] <Goose|warmonger|> No, it wasn't. [23:00] <Myworld[DT]> So now time to come to better terms [23:01] <Goose|warmonger|> I'm guessing you have a new proposal? [23:02] <Myworld[DT]> White Peace, and apology to those still fighting on extending this war longer than it has. We all go our ways not to enter into this conflict again. [23:03] <Liz> @##$% off. [23:03] <Liz> That's really it. [23:03] <Liz> @##$%. Off. [23:03] <Liz> We're going to burn you into the ground now. [23:03] <Liz> Have a happy day! <3 [23:04] <Liz> Go !@#$%* on the OWF about that now. [23:04] <Liz> I could use a few more queries. [23:04] <Myworld[DT]> Got a better idea lets hear it? [23:04] <Liz> And while you're at it. Go get some help. [23:04] <Liz> Cuz you'll need it. [23:04] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> Goose [23:04] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> this is an opportunity for CSN to save face. [23:05] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> We all know you're not neo-hegemony. [23:05] <Liz> I believe, I was not unclear. [23:05] <Liz> When I said. [23:05] <Liz> @##$%. Off. [23:07] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> Listen, the apology isn't that important. Take the white peace. [23:07] <Liz> No, buddy. You're the one in a bad spot here. [23:07] <Liz> Not us. [23:07] <Liz> You take our terms or @##$% off now. [23:07] <Liz> Thats the deal. [23:07] <Goose|warmonger|> Wait, you really want us to apologize? [23:08] <Myworld[DT]> This could of been done and over with long ago when TIO got out. [23:08] <Liz> But its not [23:08] <Myworld[DT]> If you don't that's fine [23:08] <Liz> and now you die. [23:08] <Liz> kthx. [23:08] <Goose|warmonger|> It could have been done and long ago before you declared. [23:08] <Myworld[DT]> I saw doing an apology a way for you to save face and regain some of decency [23:08] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> Liz, if you can't handle talks, please stop. [23:09] <Myworld[DT]> If you don't want to do it that's fine. It's not a sticking point for us. [23:09] <Goose|warmonger|> I'm not interested in you thinking I'm decent, nor the vast majority of the detracters on the OWF. [23:09] <Liz> Clearly you're delusional if you think we're surrendering or declaring white peace. [23:09] <Liz> We really dont care. I think you're missing that point. [23:09] <Myworld[DT]> We're not asking CSN to surrender [23:09] <Myworld[DT]> We're staying we part ways [23:09] <Myworld[DT]> *saying [23:09] <Goose|warmonger|> But you want an apology from us? [23:10] <Liz> We're not going to do that. Clearly. [23:10] <Liz> Asking for an apology? Really? Are you that upset? [23:10] <Liz> Grow up. It's a friggin game of war. You lose you pay for it. [23:10] <Myworld[DT]> Did I just not say it doesn't matter if you do or don't [23:10] <Myworld[DT]> If you don't want to then fine [23:10] <Liz> Good, then we're done here right? [23:10] <Liz> You refused terms? [23:10] <Liz> We refused your Bull%^^&**? [23:10] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> As stated earlier, it's not a sticking point for us. We thought it would be an opportunity for you. [23:11] <Myworld[DT]> We here to find a point that is acceptible for everyone. Instead of saying @##$% off and call bull%^^&*. [23:12] <Liz> You clearly knew that would not be acceptable. [23:12] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> What wouldn't be acceptable? [23:12] <Myworld[DT]> Then work off it and lets resolve this. [23:12] <Liz> We gave you our terms. [23:12] <Goose|warmonger|> So, you go from 48 hours ago being ready to accept 40k in reps and turn that into us apologizing and white peace? [23:12] <Liz> They have dropped time and time again. [23:12] <Liz> And then you drop that bull%^&*? [23:12] <Liz> No. [23:13] <Liz> That's not only insulting but just outright retarded to even try to offer that. [23:13] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> Goose, if your MOFA can't handle talks, find one that can. [23:13] <Liz> Why would we even negoiate? You know our terms. Do we have to go back to the whole, "Burn you into the ground" thing? [23:15] <Goose|warmonger|> I don't know what has changed your minds so vastly in two days, but at this time we're pretty set on the proposal you made the evening of the ninth. [23:15] <Myworld[DT]> Liz we know that you have members and allies that don't care for your reps offer to us. Take the moment to listen to them and work to find something that is beatifical and not a outrageous for everyone in CN to accpet. [23:15] <Myworld[DT]> What changed our minds is this Goose. [23:15] <Myworld[DT]> Is you walking out of the talks [23:16] <Myworld[DT]> No communication from you to us that you wanted to talk about it. Walking out meant to us that you didn't accept it. [23:16] <Goose|warmonger|> I walked out when your offer was on the table and 'take it or leave it' was thrown down. At the time, I decided to leave it. After speaking amongst ourselves, some allies and friends, we decided that it would be acceptable. [23:16] <Liz> This room has always had a member of CSN in it. [23:17] <Liz> And Supa has been kind enough to stay as well. [23:17] <Liz> If not him TiTaN. [23:19] <Myworld[DT]> Should of said something Goose that you wanted to talk about it. Even after leaving the channel you could of had someone say so. But we didn't hear anything from you until after this update. We figured we were in this for the longer haul with you walking off [23:21] <Liz> Thats an excuse and you know it. [23:21] <Myworld[DT]> No excuses [23:21] <Liz> That is one right there. [23:21] <Liz> If you were so keen you would have sought us out. Like we have you time and time again. [23:21] <Goose|warmonger|> There wasn't a plan to do anything at the time but go for the long haul. I've since spoken with some friends, allies, and our government. Shamed came and asked me to accept it. So, between all of that, we've reconsidered and decided to accept it. [23:23] <Myworld[DT]> If your so sent in reps then you'll need to find a middle ground between that and White peace of CSN and DT walking away. [23:23] <Gibsonator21> Why? Not two days ago you were in on these reps. Nothing has changed since then. [23:23] <Liz> I think you will find that is not on the table. [23:23] <Liz> These are your terms. [23:23] <Myworld[DT]> 2 days of war has changed [23:23] <Liz> That we graciously agreed to. [23:23] <Liz> This is the second time you have renegged [23:24] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> Not true. [23:24] <Liz> Very true. [23:24] <Myworld[DT]> No there was no agreement on the table. [23:24] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> Seriously, Goose, have some sense of professionalism here. [23:24] <Liz> You came to us with what you found suitable. [23:24] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> You know very well there was no agreement. [23:24] <Liz> We offered that back to you as an agreement. [23:24] <Gibsonator21> Two days of war changes nothing. [23:24] <Liz> How is it not agreeable? [23:24] <Liz> You have like 40 something people in your aa. [23:25] <Liz> That clearly doesn't amount to the damages you agreed to in terms. [23:25] <Gibsonator21> We basically let you make your own term, and accepted it a day later. [23:25] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> You walked away from it. [23:26] <Myworld[DT]> We had no knowledge of that. You walked away. Not a word to us. [23:26] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> And if you needed to consider it further, then say so. [23:27] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> So therefore, there was no agreement upon the conclusion of the last round of talks. [23:27] <Gibsonator21> That time is over. We walked away not ready to agree to it. We talked with allies/friends/members/everyone who's anyone, and now are ready to agree to that term. Two days have changed nothing. [23:27] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> We understand, only now, that you needed to talk it over. [23:28] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> But that means you need to indicate that. [23:28] <Gibsonator21> Great, we didn't. Either way, we're ready with that offer. [23:28] <Goose|warmonger|> It wasn't even planned on being talked over. [23:30] <Goose|warmonger|> I had a chat with Shamedmonkey, with him asking me to reconsider our stance and we did, coming to an agreement that the terms you offered would be agreeable. It was 30 hours after you put them forth that we got word to you about it. [23:31] <Myworld[DT]> Well when you decided to talk it over you should of said so or come to us asking if it was still on the table. In most talks when a person walks away then the offer is voided. [23:32] <Goose|warmonger|> We didn't know about even talking it over until shortly before we let TiTaN know that they were acceptable. [23:32] * Gibsonator21 sighs [23:32] <Gibsonator21> We're talking in circles. [23:34] <Myworld[DT]> So tell you what up until the logs from hearing CSN wanted to accept what you walked away. I was thinking of a lower offer to counter with that wasn't white peace. So I give you the opportunity to find that number. [23:36] <Gibsonator21> I'd rather you guess what we're thinking. Shouldn't be so hard since you provided it for us last talks we had. [23:37] <Myworld[DT]> Well its not the same number sorry. [23:40] <Goose|warmonger|> I guess we don't have an agreement, and please note that my leaving means we don't have an agreement and we won't be discussing a lowering of terms any further. Please come find me when you're ready to agree to the terms. [23:40] * Goose|warmonger| has left #channel2 [23:40] * Gibsonator21 has left #channel2 [23:40] * Liz has left #channel2[/spoiler] As you can see, this is where things went really sour. After our government officials spoke with the general membership, it was obvious to everyone in DT that none of us wanted to pay a dime of reparations. We would not treat CSN this way and no party in this war has been given such reparations. As such, we proposed what should have been proposed all along: white peace. We also proposed to CSN that they apologize to all parties involved for wasting everyone's time and national resources; this was a term that we did not expect CSN to take, nor were we insistent on it. As our officials mention, we only mentioned it to suggest the idea to them in order to give them an opportunity to make amends for the chaos that they seem to have started. Do we admit that it was mildly cheeky of us to do? Absolutely. But we assure you, we truly did mean it in good faith. So, that is the summary of where this conflict stands. As you can see, the only impediment to peace on this front is the government of CSN and what seems to be the external influence of Xiphosis of GOD. We have no desire for this war to continue. As we have stated, the reasons for this war no longer exist. So let us take this opportunity to broadcast a few messages. To the Flying Hellfish United and League of Small Superpowers: thank you for your continued support fighting alongside us. We greatly appreciate it and we owe you guys. To our unengaged allies: thank you for all the diplomatic support you guys continue to give us and we appreciate your continued friendship. To Legacy: we appreciate that you guys supported white peace. We have a lot of respect for you guys and a lot of friends among you. It was with heavy hearts that we aimed our guns at you and we look forward to the moment that we can holster them and resume our friendship. Now, most importantly, to the members of CSN. We understand that many of you do not agree with what your government is doing to us for no valid reason. Though the way we received this information was unfortunate to say the least, we cannot ignore it. The Dark Templar as a whole would like to assure you that we do not hold this against the membership of the Commonwealth of Sovereign Nations. We look forward to peace and, though we continue to lob our nukes at you, we do not do this in spite, but rather because we are forced to by your officials' unwillingness to see reason. And to those very officials: please see and understand what is right. You know quite well that DT does not deserve these terms that you are proposing. We urge you to find the identity of your alliance, one that was once a haven of morality and common sense, ignore the Iago-like manipulative influence Xiphosis seems to have over you and accept our offer of white peace. All we want out of this is to end this mindless bloodshed and we look forward to you joining us in this position. Thank you, to those of you who have made it this far, for your time and thought, The Dark Templar

Good luck R&R o/ o/ o/

Who are you again? Congrats to FHU! o/ FHU o/ FHU o/

Hey, I can dig this! o/

<3 Kirke! Congrats!

[quote name='Lord Brendan' timestamp='1296534594' post='2613936'] The Commonwealth actually has more offensive wars against you than Dark Templar has in total, against everyone. But there's no need to bicker. p.s.: I'll be disappointed if nobody from DT signs up for this: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=97979 [/quote] Not many of us play SC2.

[quote name='Buds The Man' timestamp='1296503067' post='2613268'] Good hunting out there DT send a nuke for me to Goose and his little red corvete [/quote] He knows where to find me!