Vulpes Inculta

[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1317768443' post='2816451'] So everyone that read TWiP was committing an act of war? Really? That was spied info released to the public. I didn't say it becomes 'unspied' (what a dumb term), I said that it's not spying to view it or pass it along once it's out in the public. Or should Legion plan to attack everyone who read any thread containing a spy report or screenshot from Legion? They're going to be pretty busy, because everyone of them who read those threads is guilty of accepting spied information under your definition. And everyone who linked it to someone is guilty of disseminating it. And I didn't mean you specifically, I meant you as in Legion, which I assumed you were in since you're arguing so hard. Having fun defending Legion's actions when even they have given up? And no, Legion doesn't [i]need[/i] to convince anyone that it's justified, they are a sovereign alliance. But going to war on such a ridiculous premise is probably not how I'd be wanting to make my break from the past. Tetris did nothing except hurt your feelings with public info, don't act like that's some kind of grievous offense that must be punished with war.[/quote] No, everyone that read TWiP was not committing an act of war, that's just silly. On the other hand, those who worked on TWiP to produce the information in it, now they [i]were[/i]. Of course, Pacifica couldn't intervene because they knew they'd get their faces caved in because of all the public support for that group. Though I'm not really sure where I've hinted that people who have read Tetris' spy topics are committing an act of war, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for now. I agree, unspied is a !@#$ term, I just couldn't come up with anything better for what you were implying. But this is what I want to focus on: you say that it's not spying to pass information along once it's out in the public, right? Fair enough, hell, I agree with you. But what I'm saying is, the information itself wasn't public at all. Yes, anyone can read it and pass it along, but that doesn't mean that the info should be read or passed along. I mean, are we forgetting these were screens from Legion's private forums here? It is a highly blatant breach of their sovereignty, and yes, I know we all think they're incompetent and crapola and blah blah blah but that is no excuse whatsoever, they are still an alliance and should be treated as such. Yes, I am having fun actually, though I'm not really defending them here, I'm attacking this spin job that you guys are trying to push through. Tetris did not need to come out here with that info and poke Legion constantly. It was both unneccessary and unwarranted and now Tetris is burning for it. Do I think war could have been avoided with other means? Yes. Do I blame Legion for declaring? No. However, I can see that this is beginning to devolve into semantics ("it's public!" "no it's not public!" "yes it is!" "no it isn't!" "no you!" "no, YOU!") so I'll leave it at that and take my exit. It was truly a pleasure arguing with you gentlemen, I do respect NSO as you are very honourable and don't give a crap about infra, so kudos to you guys. Have fun with the war! [quote name='TheSyl' timestamp='1317778281' post='2816532'] Good luck getting your asses handed to you while "trying" to defend an alliance who got what they had coming to them. [/quote] To be fair, the MDP would bring them in whether they wanted to or not. And they're not trying, they're doing.

[quote name='KainIIIC' timestamp='1317765073' post='2816420'] Indeed, we were so up in arms about it, [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=99288"]we'll never recover[/url]![/quote] That's a shoddy example, I know you absolutely cannot be serious with that. [quote]Yes, Legion felt that it had taken enough !@#$, and instead of clean up their own house and root out their internal spies, they instead charged into their detractors. Yes, they finally grew a pair, but again, insulting does not equal espionage. information is spilled into the public domain all the time. Legion just objected to one alliance (Tetris) doing it to you at the point when they felt you were picked on enough.[/quote] This simply links me back to my "they threw themselves on their own swords" comment. If Tetris hadn't paraded that crap through here, there's a really, [i]really[/i] good chance that they wouldn't have been in the firing line. It's really just common sense. Unfortunately, it isn't so common. And yes, I know insulting does not equal espionage. Argued further on that point, I have not. [quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1317766398' post='2816433'] lol. I'm afraid that it was public. Just because it wasn't on these boards yet means nothing. Anyone here could go and view that information on CNtel any time they chose. You didn't authorize putting it up but once it's out there you're going to have a hard time convincing people that you have the right to attack them for looking at it and showing other people. I don't care if the information was spied originally or not. That has no bearing at all on what Tetris did. They brought the info to a wider audience, that's it. It may not have been intended for public consumption but that's where it ended up, and that's where it was when Tetris got to it, out in public. That you try and paint CNtel as an 'international spying hub' just shows how hard you're grasping here. [/quote] No, it wasn't public. There's a difference that you don't seem to be picking up here. You see, spied information is spied information whether it's been placed in "public" places or not. To say that it becomes "unspied" information when it goes up in a public place, as you have implied so, is rather silly. And of course I didn't authorise it, I'm not Legion, derp. Linking back once again, Legion didn't need to convince anyone that this attack is justified; Tetris brought this upon themselves, by parading the spied information here without good reason, most probably thinking they would get away with it. Well what the hell would you call CNtel? The "Daily Coffee Morning Forum"? It's not me who's grasping here bud.

[quote name='Louisa' timestamp='1317766162' post='2816429'] How dare you impugn Voytek's grammatical excellence with your horrendous sentence fragments? I will see you at the hustings, sir! [/quote] well it's slightly annoying when people say things in this format

[quote name='Voytek' timestamp='1317764446' post='2816412'] someone with more time and energy than me needs to address this train wreck [/quote] You should spend what little time and energy you apparently have to actually say something and not simply demand someone else to address my "train wreck". The least you could do is use proper punctuation and spelling, man. Grammar Nazi, etc.

[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1317763735' post='2816405'] How you think conflating insulting and spying would work is beyond me. Having your alliance insulted is in no way a CB. Tetris posted already public information. That might be insulting, but it's not spying. So you got fed up. Poor little Legion. You can be fed up all you want, but disseminating public info does not a CB make. And what's the difference? It's really the same principle as when people find logs on !@#$%* and spread them around. You can be unhappy the info is out in public, you can't blame people for looking and spreading it round once it is public though.[/quote] I'm not saying having your alliance insulted is a CB. It does however, make up a portion of the CB's justification, for reasons that are as obvious as the sky is blue. Plastering private information all over the world scene however, is a CB. You guys can keep arguing that the information was already public, but the fact is, it wasn't, strictly speaking. The Legion didn't exactly authorise the putting up of that information, did they now? It is [b]not[/b] okay to simply transfer information from a well-known spying hub to the international forum, public or otherwise. The information was spied- it remained private and not for public consumption.

[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1317762492' post='2816389'] So basically you declared on them because they hurt your feelings by drawing attention to your own failings. Thanks for being honest guys. [/quote] If someone decided to come out and begin insulting NSO and posting information gathered from private NSO forums, your lot would be up in arms, don't try to deny it. [quote name='KainIIIC' timestamp='1317762516' post='2816390'] Why yes, that does seem to be the purpose of this war. Legion had their feelings hurt and decided to respond. Tetris was merely one step behind being a Julian Assange, releasing already-leaked information on a public forum. There is zero evidence that Tetris conducted espionage. [/quote] It's a matter of principle. Looks like Legion just about got fed up of folks constantly degrading them and decided to [i]do something about it[/i]. CNtel itself is a forum for spied information. Just because it's available for the public to see doesn't mean it should be formally announced out here.

[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1317761561' post='2816377'] But your info was already public on CNtel. Will you be seeking out all those who read it there, for accepting information? What about all the people who read the screenshots here? What about people who linked others to the thread? They spread it to a wider audience. Where do you draw the line? Calling accepting and disseminating information already in the public domain an act of war is a pretty big stretch. [/quote] If it was already public, why did Tetris feel the need to act like complete !@#$% and come out here with the info? Why did they try once again to insult Legion on the world stage? There was no need for it. If they wanted to spread the links, we have IRC and PMs for that. Instead, they decided to throw themselves on their own swords.

[quote name='Hereno' timestamp='1317760376' post='2816358'] You couldn't make it any more wrong, either. [/quote] The irony of that is so heavy my arms feel like they're weighed down with concrete as I say this.

[quote name='heggo' timestamp='1317759639' post='2816349'] Wow, I'm shocked that anybody can believe this anymore. Attempting to lower Legion's reputation is a just cause for war? Really? Maybe that would fly if you were a Pacifican emperor back in their glory days, but now-a-days we have a little thing called respect for other peoples' opinions mister. And besides, by your logic, the CB Legion has should be against themselves, not Tetris, since Tetris only was the messenger for Legion's posts. Legion can't besmirch itself to the brink of war, can it? [/quote] I'm not saying that Legion's reputation being lowered is a just cause for war, I'm saying that Legion's sovereignty being breached is a just cause for war. If you actually read what I said and not [i]into[/i] what I said, you'd know that. Tetris published information passed to them by spies who were actively spying on the Legion. Is there any way I can make this more clear cut for you sir?

I love the smell of ICPPTMs in the mornin'!

[quote name='heggo' timestamp='1317758423' post='2816333'] Only the basest of distortions could suggest that Tetris' commitment to freedom of information has anything in common with spying. They're just reporters is all. Wikileaksers, if you prefer. Little block shaped Julian Assanges. I don't see why you think standing up for freedom and newspapers is such a bad idea. And besides, it's not like they published anything hurtful anyway. It was clearly just an excuse for Legion to strut around and pretend it knows when it's a good idea to start wars. [/quote] That's a pretty picture you're painting there, but you know that's not how things work. Tetris did not simply act as a "reporter", passing out information to the public, they deliberately rubbed it in the face of Legion, acting with a high degree of smugness as though the information they have is gold. And freedom has nothing to do with this, it's about sovereignty. Tetris breached Legion's sovereignty as an alliance, doing nothing more than attempting to lower Legion's reputation even further. This in itself warrants the punch in the face Tetris is now recieving, never mind the act of collaborating with spies, the act of which frankly makes Tetris an alliance not to be trusted.

[quote name='KainIIIC' timestamp='1317748667' post='2816215'] a charming assessment. [/quote] Why thank you.

[quote name='Buzz Lightyear' timestamp='1317571375' post='2813897'] now u guys just gotta get that ANS up [/quote] We aim to be absolutely lethal in the lower tier. Hell of a milestone. Go us. o/

[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1317745913' post='2816161'] Not sure where you'd get the idea that Legion is winning. [/quote] Well they sure as hell ain't losing. Not yet anyway. Tetris isn't strong enough to withstand a full-blown war against the Legion, which leaves me seriously questioning their judgement in spying on the purple fellows (whether or not they performed the actual act of spying is frankly irrelevant, as they collaborated with the spies that [i]did[/i] do the act, which is equally valid as a casus belli). Perhaps they believed they'd get away with it, as NSO did just weeks earlier? Either way, unless they have some serious warchests (which I doubt...it's Tetris after all) and seriously efficient co-ordination, they won't dish out the damage necessary to win. Which brings us to NSO. I doubt that NSO has enough firepower to change the tide as well. The majority of you sith may be good fighters, but I think Legion has this nipped in the bud, given that they declared knowing full well that you would counter. I guess Legion has some balls after all. Still, this could swing either way, so in the meantime...

If you want the action, declare on them yourselves, don't bother waiting and talking !@#$ in the meantime.

About time Legion. About time. Also, I'd like to point certain people to the statistical fact that Legion has a mere 15 nations in peace mode.

Wouldn't surprise me if you were the guy who gave Tetris those screenies.

What the $%&@ UPN? It's only 30 million, two nations could pay that in one go. Ideally, the offending nations. Hell, NG is being lenient with this...if someone's MoD attacked my alliance, I'd have him ZI'd AND I would've demanded reparations. Roll them NG, roll them all.

Kinda makes me wonder why so many of you are sizing up GOD when right over in this corner, we have an alliance who is literally asking to be rolled over and over again.

Amossio in the trium? What the actual $%&@ LoSS? 'grats to the others, though.

Impressive, very impressive. Good luck wherever this treaty takes you.

Those are some nice figures there. Give the guy hell, Dame.

Voted Nord. If the majority of NoR's naval superiority is comprised of subs,that extra power for nukes could go a long way in getting a headstart. Theoretically, such a headstart could mean that when the dust settles, NoR will be slightly better off than NEW. As others have mentioned, a 1v1 would destroy the two of them, though NoR is somewhat more active than NEW so their rebuilding capabilities would be much better.

Out of curiosity, what is the average age of a UE member? I only ask because, well, frankly I wouldn't expect an alliance with a theme like this to be run by anyone 18+.

[quote name='Ikariuga' timestamp='1313333742' post='2780559'] I wonder how the interests of some people could be a good way to evaluate the intellect of these persons, most of us could be new here but that does not mean we can't adapt with ease [/quote] My money is on every last one of you not being new at all: [quote name='Moony' timestamp='1313303047' post='2780373'] Hi everyone! Sorry for asking such a silly question, but [b]is has been a while since I've last played[/b] and I was curious as to whether you would reroll a nation if you had Gems and Sugar as your resources? I would really appreciate any help! Thanks for your time! [/quote] I could be wrong but the evidence doesn't point that way just yet. Especially not given that in my last alliance there was someone sporting this exact same pony crap, and I don't believe in coincidences.