Vulpes Inculta

Excellent, this is certainly justified and even respectable.

~Down here, we're all insane.~ Congrats Randoms.

Voted every last damn option. The fact of the matter is (and this should be objective but some people seem to think otherwise) spying/espionage/gathering intelligence and sharing it with anyone is an absolutely justified, valid casus belli. It doesn't necessarily mean you [i]have[/i] to go to war over it, but it [b]does[/b] give you an entirely valid reason to declare war. It doesn't even matter if you're not physically the one to gather the information, i.e. someone you know has given you said info, if you share that info you are contributing to whatever the objective was in spying the information in the first place, because whilst someone may have just given you the info, that doesn't make it any less classified and it doesn't make it any less spied.

[center][img]http://cdn1.alexanderhiggins.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Feds-Say-Tritium-Leaks-From-Nuke-Plants-No-Threat-To-Human-Health.jpg[/img][/center] [center]Get the nukes, keep the peace and make your people happy. Now all in one alliance![/center]

Really? The best thing I learned from these was that some guy named BloodFury is a bit of an idiot. Waste of my time.

[quote name='Frederico Rodriguez' timestamp='1318250347' post='2822122'] A little re-reading should never go astray. But everyone is a little insecure, sure. Just saying, GATO are very nice and [i]supporting[/i] people, everything a community and an alliance should be, at least in my humble opinion. [/quote] Haha, okay buddy.

[quote name='Frederico Rodriguez' timestamp='1318250113' post='2822116'] I believe our motto is Strength in Unity, Honour in Justice. But GATO is known for being very accepting people, to hell with personal insecurities! You should join up! [/quote] I take it you have personal insecurities, then?

[quote name='Frederico Rodriguez' timestamp='1318248845' post='2822102'] Sorry we don't have strong enough pixels for you. Talking online smack, now that makes you a real tough cookie. [/quote] [i]Everyone[/i] talks smack. Your alliance included.

[quote name='ShouAS' timestamp='1318179649' post='2821549'] preparing to leak target lists as we speak, jk [/quote] Prepare [i]false[/i] target lists and make them think you're declaring on someone else.

[quote name='thedon125' timestamp='1318178554' post='2821541'] Publicly encouraging nuclear warfare against an alliance of Blood 4 Friends, and providing a bounty for anyone who follows through. Now, I may be new to this whole "External Affairs" thing, but I'm pretty sure that's a valid CB, and not a bad one at that. You may want to reconsider the OP's "not a joke" status. [/quote] If one good thing comes out of this silly, silly topic, it'll be a declaration of war. Go for it. No-one likes animes anyway. :bias:

[quote name='CnaedmacAilpn' timestamp='1318078052' post='2820759'] I do not agree much with what 'The Big Bad' says, but this time he has hit the nail on the head. Your alliances have as yet failed to beat the Legion on the Battlefield, and because of this, and the way you have conducted things, they are winning the propaganda war. [/quote] The battlefield only just became level. For sure, the side attacking Legion have taken a lot of flak for not living up to all the past remarks and insults thrown at Legion, but speaking as a realist, how could they have dished out much damage as just the three of them against one? However cowardly, unfair or unbelievable it may seem, the fact is, the only way Tetris was ever going to have a chance of winning this war was by bringing in allies. And that's exactly what they've done. Fair enough, five alliances against one makes it sound like a real bear fight, but as a few others have mentioned, it's not really about the number of alliances that are involved, it's about what firepower they bring to the table. Having looked at the stats, it seems as though the firepower arrayed against Legion is beginning to take its toll, which is precisely the outcome Tetris and co. is looking for. Not only this, but Legion isn't dealing out enough counter-damage to compensate, with the result that Legionnaires are leaking warchest savings very quickly.

Heh, this is amusing.

[quote name='Saniiro Matsudaira' timestamp='1318038103' post='2820339'] Well, ODoAPs can serve that same purpose. If two alliances' relationship is strong enough, then the treaty can serve up to the same purpose. MDoAP shouldn't be used to any other advantage but to unite both alliances militarily against a common enemy/enemies when one or the other is attacked, as they should be. [/quote] Mm, true. I stand convinced, good sir.

[quote name='Saniiro Matsudaira' timestamp='1318037620' post='2820327'] The requesting part is the whole meaning of why I think it is going around the clause of mutual defence. If you are going to do that, then make the treaty an oD(A)P-level treaty. If it is at that level, two alliances can treat it the same as a Mutual-level treaty, but stay away from MD(oA)P treaties if you are not going to oblige to the clauses of the treaties in the end. [/quote] Yup. Probably should've been an ODoAP or just changed that particular article to a fixed, strictly mutual defence term. Saying that though, it does have a tactical/strategic advantage, as we are seeing now.

[quote name='Saniiro Matsudaira' timestamp='1318036911' post='2820311'] I don't care about which alliance counterdeclares in result. The main problem is when two alliances sign onto a MDoAP, the matter behind mutual defence is not that they request it, but that an ally is obliged to come in defence of an alliance. It does not matter if it was Legion/Tetris/Polar/NSO/Invicta/NsO/etc, etc. MDoAP partners are obliged to help, necessary or not. If they are not going to honor mutual clauses, then treaty partners might as well keep it optional.[/quote] I half-agree, it might've been easier to just colour the whole defence part optional rather than mutual, especially given that in a completely e-lawyering technical sense they made it optional with the "requesting" part, but it's their treaty at the end of the day, they can do what they want with it and word it how they like. [quote]I will not object that it is a fair CB, but there are those still being smug about the war. [/quote] Certainly. I guess we'll see soon enough whether they still have a right to be smug.

[quote name='Saniiro Matsudaira' timestamp='1318034993' post='2820286'] At least our allies/friends/etc are willing to honor/activate our treaties. That is the bare necessity.[/quote] This has been explained multiple times by multiple different people. Legion has the ability, through their treaties, to request when their allies come in. If Polar/Invicta/whoever else decided to come in without that request, they would be in violation of the treaty and entering the war illegally. Then of course, your side would !@#$%* and complain. [quote]smug =/= respect [/quote] Declaring war on a rock solid CB = = respect

This is an...interesting establishment, though I'm not entirely sure it's worth it. Good luck though, particularly to Apparatus, you are my favourites in this little group.

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1318015014' post='2819957'] Are you trying to refute this point that Europa and Invicta already acknowledged? Where is captian pickard when you need him. [/quote] Care to point me to this acknowledgement rather than hinting at a facepalm? Y'know, actually be civillised? It's not like I read every single piece of writing out here, therefore it is a possibility I have missed this.

[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1318012945' post='2819919'] Haven't they stated as much on these boards after Europa's target list (complete with a date and time to attack) were leaked? I'm not going to sit here and disclose private conversations just to satisfy, but this is practically a matter of public record at this point. [/quote] I thought as much. I wouldn't really take Europa's target list as proof, but meh. That's fair enough.

[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1318012558' post='2819912'] They were intending to enter. That much isn't really up for debate. [/quote] I assume you have evidence that proves as such?

Suppose it's because there's no rule that says they absolutely have to. And then there's the whole baiting thing.

[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1318010217' post='2819871'] The fact is they were going to escalate it, and they intended to do so from very early on. Invicta and Europa were going to counter us. We all know this, we all knew it then, and we all know that it was only called off in the last few hours. Nothing significant or unexpected had happened in the war itself, so the only reasonable conclusion is they looked at how things would spiral upward and didn't like what they saw. [/quote] Hmm. Somehow I doubt this. I won't pretend to know what Invicta and Europa were going to do, because I don't, but it's common sense for them to come in when Legion really needs it, and not simply as a counter to you guys, because A. in the time frame we're discussing, that would be far too early and unnecessary, given the uneven battlefield between Legion and Tetris/NSO and B. as much as many of you like to think, Invicta and Europa aren't completely stupid; they know that if they declared on you that soon, it would've $%&@ed up the whole war effort, through unnecessary escalation.

[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1318009497' post='2819852'] All this silliness about Legion's allies staying out because "Oh, we don't need them we're just dandy here" would be a lot more believable if we didn't already know that those allies only called off their attacks at the last minute due to the counters that would have resulted. Legion now wants to puff up their chest and act all big and tough in order to hide the fact that they're afraid to escalate the war that they started. [/quote] Why do they need to escalate it? They appear to be doing just fine by themselves, for the moment.

Awesome treaty, awesome alliances, congrats folks.

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