Vulpes Inculta

[quote name='Timberland' timestamp='1323526453' post='2872536'] Its not "The classic i'm fighting rubbish" Its a fact, I'd put my money on the old GGA over NPL . [/quote] It might be a fact but that doesn't make it any less of a "trololo u guyz r crapola". Which is really all you've been saying thus far. Would you now? I wouldn't. Maybe someone should revive GGA just to test that.

[quote name='Timberland' timestamp='1323525755' post='2872522'] This guy collected in nuclear anarchy, yeah he's not hurting for money with is 212k wc http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=429967 [/quote] What can I say, every alliance has its noobs.

[quote name='Timberland' timestamp='1323525755' post='2872522'] You could barely handle nebula-x let alone handle DH, who are you kidding ? When all 3 of my opponents have a total of 10 million on them combined. You ready for bill lock yet ? [/quote] No seriously, all this laughing man...woo... Okay, ahem. Nah. We had Neb-X covered pretty well. If it hadn't been for your pre-empt, we would have grinded them down quite a bit more. Aha, the classic "the guyz im fightin' r rubbish!". Well, gee, we did just get hit by an entire bloc. Pre-empted, no less, not to mention we were already scrapping with Nebula-X.

[quote name='Timberland' timestamp='1323524794' post='2872511'] Your minister of economics doesn't seem to think you will stop recruiting our tech raids. [/quote] And of course, I had no idea GOONs took the [ooc]game[/ooc] this seriously: [quote]To: Vulpes Inculta From: John Gotti Date: 12/10/2011 7:43:55 AM Subject: RE: John... Message: Thats a nice attitude to have, I will be sure to let our gov know you don't plan on stopping recruiting our tech raids. You and your pathetic broke !@# alliance will continue to eat nukes for a very long time from me[/quote] [quote]To: Vulpes Inculta From: John Gotti Date: 12/10/2011 7:49:12 AM Subject: RE: John... Message: are you broke ? I have more than enough money to drop down to your level and continue to spy away it. Oh yeah i'm arrogant, when you have a billion on you like me, you can do whatever the !@#$ you want. eat it !@#$%[/quote] Thanks for making me chuckle, at least. As for this surrender. Meh. It's a bit like disregard Nebula-X, acquire Doom House. The only reason we shut down on this front was because we want to direct our full attention to Dumbhaus.

[quote name='Varianz' timestamp='1323198535' post='2865896'] It is illegal to force an alliance to give someone control (admin powers) over their alliance forums. However, viceroyship is legal as long as it stays in the purview of [OCC] the game [OCC]. That said, RoK have no intention of actually imposing a viceroy lol. [/quote] Ah, I see. Thanks for that clarification. There's your answer Rena.

[quote name='LittleRena' timestamp='1323197999' post='2865882'] Are they illegal or is it just illegal in some of the powers a viceroy can take? I missed the time of viceroys so I have no idea about them. [/quote] From what I understand, viceroyship (that is, the forced control of another alliance by a chosen member of another alliance) was deemed illegal in 2008. I could be wrong, so I'd appreciate it if someone from back then could clarify.

[quote name='Jaiar' timestamp='1323196977' post='2865870'] Non-chaining...yes we all know Rok does not have to defend Fark for the attacks it suffered yesterday, but Bob Ilyani was calling out ARES allies for not defending them. He wanted them to ignore non-chaining clauses just so that Rok could hit somebody. Now Rok, don't be cowards. Get you some and declare on GOD. You have sigs up for Bob Ilyani's Viceroyship...do something about it or be cowards. Or what, you're going to wait until CSN or RnR gets in so you can hit them instead? Hit GOD and let's see what happens after that, or are you afraid of GOD's jolly green giant? Also Wu, what did Rok know and when did you know it? Did you tell Fark about Nordreich's plans? Did you shrug and allow it? I hope the case is that they just didn't tell you, but from posts in this thread it seems you did know so I hope you at least told Fark. You wouldn't want to be compared to Grub now would you? [/quote] Can you read what I said please Jaiar? And then discontinue this argument please. Viceroys are also illegal, they aren't serious about that. Better not be, anyway.

Oh jeeze, the attention, it's killing me.

[quote name='NeCoHo' timestamp='1323138364' post='2864775'] I'd imagine the nature of the bloc itself (regardless of the bloc) means that it supersedes any stand-alone MDP or MDoAP, but that's just how things were the past 6 years more or less. [/quote] This, more or less. Depending on the circumstances, blocs > individual treaties. That's besides the matter though, we all knew RoK was never going to choose the MDoAP with Fark over MJ, especially not after that stunt they pulled attacking NPO. I love Fark to death but that was one move that disappointed even me. Jaiar I thought you knew how treaties worked man? [quote name='foxfire99' timestamp='1323186584' post='2865718'] If Rok hits GOD there won't be much of them left for NPL. [/quote] I laughed at this, well played sir.

Excellent, have fun out there.

War huh, what is it good for... Absolutely everything.

Oh c'mon, I thought you were DEAD ASS SERIOUS!!!! Yeah, I don't think this is gonna work bud.

[quote name='George Gordy' timestamp='1321423914' post='2845423'] DEAD ASS SERIOUS!!!! [/quote] Watch out guys, he's DEAD ASS SERIOUS!!!! FEAR, put him out of his misery.

[quote name='LordDarknessOfLight' timestamp='1321289332' post='2844622'] He did explain to me in a better sense, yes, I will agree with you on that.[/quote] Okeydokey. [quote]Now isnt someone trying to be a RV? Trust me, its quite ridiculous how you are trying soo hard on my points and you even stated, "they aren't worth approaching." if they aren't worth approaching, then why do you try and engage them? Words of advice: you dont have to comment on everyone posts, it makes you look more foolish. My comments go out to Kaskus, not to you. I already received my reply and i thank Tan. If i were to state to VI, then i would have done so, which in this case never happened.[/quote] Me trying to be RV? You really, [i]really[/i] have absolutely [i]got[/i] to be joking. Put me and RV in the same room and lock the door. Come back a day later, there wouldn't be anything left, not so much as a limb. I'm not trying "soo hard" on your points. I'll assume you haven't noticed the debate between myself and Sigrun. [i]That[/i] was me trying. You are merely dessert. They aren't worth approaching because you were basically saying nothing worth approaching. You said stuff like "I don't like war but if it must be done then so be it" and "Never assume anything because people who assume don't learn and blah blah blah..." which is all really quite ridiculous. You quoted and addressed me sunshine. I'm responding to you. [quote]Actually, Viridian Entente is a neutral alliance in political and warfare stances. Don't bring up my alliance in this case as you have no words to speak. FearUnited is correct. I have respect for my alliance as i do for everyone else. I would rather be here to start over with my new re-roll.[/quote] VE is not neutral when it comes to political and warfare stances. That is an intensely silly thing to say. VE, please educate this man. [quote]Here's another key word of advice for you VI: Think before you speak. You try too hard trying to call me a fool or making me look like a fool, its not going to win. I remember with FearUnited how i engaged RV and i never knew who he was at first.. Wrong move. I learned a lot from him. Now im tell you the same. Think before you speak, you'll be bitten in the end if you dont.[/quote] I do think before I speak. I think a lot. I think about how every word is structured and how it will affect whomever I am addressing. Sometimes I spend twenty minutes to half an hour thinking about my post, longer if it is an extended debate. (With the exception of the Vlad's thread, that was just balls to the wall tbbh.) You seem to be pretty obsessed with RV. Why are you bringing him into a conversation that has zilch to do with him? RV, what have you done to this man?

Happy birthday gentlemen, here's to another five years! (Hopefully we're [i]all[/i] still around by then. Hopefully.)

Ragnarok are great protectors. Just don't let xR1 $%&@ up your chances. Good luck.

[quote name='LordDarknessOfLight' timestamp='1321247979' post='2844438'] Hm, sounds like what Kaskus is doing isn't it? They won't give up, not even til the very end of their nation. I can bet you they have warchests beyond everyones expectations to be honest. They can last for months and will do damage to NG mid to low tiers. Its just a matter of time.. They won't accept peace. Don't even assume that they will settle with peace. They are standing up for what they believe is right. I wish there wasn't a war but if it must be done, then so be it. Never assume.. Those who assume think they know it all and those who think they know it all a aren't willing to learn and those who aren't willing to learn will fail always. [/quote] If they choose not to give up, fine by everyone else, I suppose? It's not like Kaskus actually has any popularity points, aside from the obvious anti-NG people. I seriously doubt that they have warchests beyond everyone else's expectations. Not mediocre warchests perhaps, but certainly not enough for the job they have in mind. They will do damage to NG's middle and lower tier yes, but that's really to be expected. Kaskus will take a lot more damage than they will dish out. I would certainly hope that NG doesn't let them off with peace. I'm not NG's biggest fan but I would gladly support them wholeheartedly in this issue. Kaskus isn't standing up for anything, it's quite clear the CB was a sham, which Tan has explained himself. I haven't assumed anything. Listen, I know you're trying to say something smart and meaningful with this but it's really quite ridiculous, not even worth approaching. Oh jesus, I just realised you're the guy who thought VE was neutral...FearUnited, right?

[quote name='Sigrun Vapneir' timestamp='1321160607' post='2844018'] No, I didnt. I said you had a coward mentality because you claimed (and continue to claim) that the only option for someone at war and so badly outnumbered (as Kaskus happens to be at the moment) is to kneel and beg for mercy. It's not, and it's as simple as that.[/quote] Yes you did. And in any case, it [i]is[/i] the only option. Kaskus is outmatched in every way. They will fight for, what, three or four months? They will bleed and bleed and bleed, all the while doing negligible damage to NG (rather, damage that can easily be repaired) and if they should eventually find themselves negotiating for peace, I would personally have no problem with NG "extorting" every last bit of tech out of them. [quote]The best I know NG isnt bothering you and therefore you have no need to stand up to them, that is entirely beside the point. The point is that, should you or your alliance ever find itself over a barrel like that, for whatever reason and against whatever opponent, you will be defeated before the first shot is fired because you believe this nonsense you post.[/quote] Quite the contrary. I really can't speak for my friends but I personally am prepared to fight until my nation is extinct. And then come back and fight some more. [quote]Hahah delusion? Hardly. I will give you credit for spelling naïveté properly though.[/quote] Thanks, I guess? [quote]Better men than you have tried. You really have no idea. Naïveté and delusion? Look to your own sentence directly above for an abundant helping of it. You have no clue just how difficult a job that would be - but more importantly, it wouldnt work even if you could pull it off - even deletion won't get rid of anyone that really wants to be here. Think about that for a second, you can figure it out. I'll even give you a hint - this isnt my first nation. [/quote] Well obviously not, if someone wants to stay, they could keep creating nation after nation. The principle is, when your nation no longer exists, then you're no longer in this world, so whoever was beating you down has accomplished what they set out to do. For nations who have spent a lot of time and ability in crafting their nation, having to start from the beginning again can be pretty devastating, and it increases the chance that they will one day say "$%&@ it, I can't be arsed anymore". I'm a hardcore CN'er (and I'm assuming you are, given the history behind you), so I don't have that mindset, but a lot of others do. And it really wouldn't be too difficult. I'd explain why but 'How to delete a nation via warfare' is not the focus of this topic. I can see we're going to have to agree to disagree here, so I'll take my leave for now and maybe we can butt heads again when Kaskus starts forking over tech to NG? Sounds great, I'll give you a call.

[quote name='Sigrun Vapneir' timestamp='1321139430' post='2843907'] You keep making insinuations like this without any basis. I said no such thing. I corrected you on one point and one point only - your assertion that simple numerical superiority means the war is lost and further that Kaskus has no sovereignty. You are wrong, and your arguments on that point reveal your ignorance of both warfare and sovereignty. Your repeated attempts to distract from that by imputing positions to me that I have not taken are noted, and rejected.[/quote] Sigrun, you said right from the beginning that people like me had a coward mentality because we seem to be unwilling to "stand up" to alliances like NG. If you're not implying here, that I should form a six-man alliance and attack an established alliance so as to shed this coward mentality (which doesn't even exist- I'd tell you why it doesn't but that's one long debate that I really cannot be bothered to get into here), then you need to reword your argument. I am not making insinuations without basis, I am making logical responses to what you appear to believe, and what you appear to believe is primitive, backwards and outright delusional. First of all, my assertion that Kaskus has lost was not based on numerical superiority, it was based on a number of things including statistics, knowledge and experience. Hell, it wasn't even based on those, I simply knew NG are going to win this because they are fighting a bunch of nuclear rogues. Secondly, as far as I'm concerned, Kaskus has very little sovereignty, if any. The assertion I was making, if you'd just cease being obtuse for a few minutes, was that what little sovereignty they do have doesn't matter because NG is in the driver's seat; they will win this war and they will control it from start to finish. If anyone has tried to make distractions here, it's you, spouting rather idiotic crap like numbers not mattering in a war. [quote]I'll be here just as long as I want to be here and there is nothing you or anyone else here, Admin excepted, can do about it. If you dont understand that too bad. I have no obligation to waste anymore time and space trying to explain it to you.[/quote] A part of me actually can't believe you just said that. Your nation is over 1700 days old and you make a statement like this absolutely brimful of naïveté and delusion? You really should know better. You are here because others permit you to be here. You are here because your nation has not been pounded into dust and entered the void of deletion. You can say everyone has a right to exist here, and you'd be right. But they only do so because they submit themselves to a heavy-set climate of rules and regulations, governed by this community, all designed to deter the concept of anarchy.

I for one, lol'd. Be interesting to see if NG does something similar, I'm sure I'm not the only one wishing to know what Kaskus' warchests look like. zzzptm

[quote name='Sigrun Vapneir' timestamp='1321046287' post='2843342'] Random junk. I took issue with your claim that the fight was over and Kaskus would be taking whatever terms NG wanted to give them, based on numbers alone, you replied as if I was telling you to fight NG. I am not fighting NG, nor encouraging anyone to do so.[/quote] No, not random junk. Random junk implies I was talking about something that had absolutely nothing to do with the issue at hand. That's not the case. But it's okay, I'm getting used to your ignorance now. You certainly made it clear that I should suicide rush my nation against an alliance [i]such as[/i] NG, lest I be forever deemed a coward. [quote]It's very very true. And yes, I have been in those shoes.[/quote] Nope, isn't true at all. Good for you, I'm sure you kept fighting and didn't take terms whatsoever. [quote]If you think war can kill an alliance you are even further out of touch with reality than you appear. War cannot kill an alliance. Cowards who arent willing to fight for their sovereignty can, of course, but that is a different thing entirely.[/quote] If you think war can't kill an alliance, you're outright deluded. Constant war tends to have a drastic effect on morale and the views of those involved in a war. Two-week, three-week, month-long war, fine, all good. Change that to say, two or three months, or something along those lines, and you start entering a whole different dynamic altogether. You obviously don't understand the mindset of the average individual ruler. Many of them don't want to fight in a several-months-long war, they just don't have the right outlook for it. So they start to leave, and you have a small trickle of people who get fed up and stop fighting. The more members that leave, the weaker the alliance gets. The weaker the alliance gets, the higher the chance that they consider the option of surrendering or disbanding (or both). Now, you can argue that war wasn't the direct cause of that alliance's death, but you can't argue that it had the biggest hand in it. [quote]There is nothing honourable about surrendering your sovereignty to save your infra. Nothing.[/quote] No there isn't, but you're completely ignoring the environment back then. The only alliance I know of (correct me if there are more) that has ever accepted a viceroy and by extension surrendered their sovereignty, was the Legion. Now they had all sorts of problems back then, and under so much pressure, I'm not surprised they accepted the viceroy. They had several incompetent government members at the time, and under threat of NPO and company, had to agree to something or face total destruction. This is a matter of principle, and you can argue what you like, but sometimes the only way to ensure you're still gonna be here in a couple years time is to accept the terms you're given. [quote]"If there had been no karma" is a pretty absurd what-if. Karma is always with us, it is a law of nature. But regardless, what kept them going was a realistic understanding of the facts of the matter, an understanding that seems to elude you. Also I really dont think 'hatred of NPO' was a primary factor at all, rather love of FAN and an honourable and rational refusal to collapse in fear and despair over a few numbers.[/quote] You're being fairly obtuse here. You know damn well that when I say Karma, I mean the Karma War and the events surrounding that. A realistic understanding of the facts of the matter seems to elude you, actually. You're content to believe that Kaskus will get away with this on sheer principle, you know they won't but you're quite happy soaking in your ignorance. Hatred of NPO [i]was[/i] a primary factor, it's part of what made individual FAN rulers get up every day and fight back as hard as they could. If anything, numbers was a crucial thing to FAN. Without them, they would have collapsed easily without much of a fight. Don't you think it might have been even a little important for them to co-ordinate properly and make good use of what they had number-wise to prevent NPO from completely wiping them out? They didn't exactly rampage out into war mode and make some bloody, suicidal last stand. [quote]Well FAN was attacked rather absurdly which gave them at least theoretically some PR advantage, while Kaskus chose to attack and forfeit that, but otherwise what is the difference? It's not like FAN really got anything from that PR boost anyhow. NG isnt NPO, and I dont expect them to try and play it like the old NPO would have, but if they did then Kaskus would face the same choice FAN faced. A choice you claim doesnt exist. Based on what you have written, it's clear that FAN lost the moment war was declared, and had no choice but to accept whatever terms NPO with their vast numerical advantage chose to offer (which was disbandment.) Yet FAN never disbanded. How do you explain that?[/quote] FAN got, at the very least, sympathy and a ton of private support. Kaskus has nothing, except the misguided public support of a few such as yourself. Kaskus would not face the same choice FAN did, because the two situations are not one and the same. I honestly thought you were more intelligent than this Sigrun, but it appears I was wrong. FAN were losing the war the moment it began. Well they weren't winning, were they? FAN didn't start winning until Karma. They didn't disband because (as I've actually already explained) they were tighter than the average community and had a strong desire to survive NPO's onslaught. [quote]The discerning mind analyses statistics carefully and understands what they do and do not tell. The raw stats you quoted tell one very little of consequence in terms of the war. It's roughly 50:1 by number of nations on paper. Great. So what? Numerical advantage is real but it isnt the end all-be all of warfare here, not by a long shot. And you can get the maximum benefit that can be squeezed out of numerical advantage at 18:1 anyway, so 50:1 is a number that means nothing. Maybe it looks more impressive to you (almost 300% more right?) but reality doesnt care. You could generate much more interesting and informative stats if you wanted to look at how much of Kaskus NS is tech, how many nations NG has that will be in range to keep hitting them when they hit infra-bottom, Kaskus warchest numbers and projections, and so forth. You might actually come up with some stats that would give you insight into the war that way, but it's more trouble than simply quoting the easily available and utterly meaningless numbers you threw out, I know. And even if you did that, there are many important variables that arent just stats. The level of activity and commitment of the members is always much more important than a simple nation count, for instance.[/quote] For someone who believes numbers don't matter in war, you sure do think you can lecture others about it. The irony is, I don't even need to look at the stats to know that NG will win. Not only is NG composed of battle-hardened fighters and highly active members, but they've been in the warfighting business a lot longer than this Kaskus group, and also have more to lose, meaning they'll fight harder and longer. [quote]You are just continuing to prove you dont understand the concept. Sovereignty belongs to those who claim it and refuse to give it up. Outside recognitions are nice, but the absence of those does not and cannot invalidate it.[/quote] Incorrect. You only hold sovereignty so long as others allow you to do so. Simply shouting "I'M AN ALLIANCE SO I AM SOVEREIGN!" whilst demanding that others recognise it, doesn't mean you have it. And if you think otherwise, you don't know anything about the way this world works. [quote]But I will answer your question anyway, having been a one-woman AA for over a year, and having fought as such several times - if I am the one-nation AA, the other alliance in question is one that knows me, and that 35-man AA is a typical nest of incompetence inactivity and ignorant cowardice... they will definitely be more inclined to recognise me [/quote] Except you're one person, you have little to no value, so others couldn't care less whether you wanted to be sovereign or not. I think they'd recognise the 35-man alliance, no matter how clogged with inactivity they appear to be.

[quote name='Sigrun Vapneir' timestamp='1321039625' post='2843292'] I didnt say anything about attacking NG. You may notice that I am not (although I did fight them fairly recently.) Kaskus' rationale and defense of their initiation of war here is lacking in my mind, and I never implied otherwise. You are just grabbing at random junk to divert attention from the actual point here - that being your repeated contention that the war is 'over' 'lost' etc. simply because they are outnumbered. That is not a 'realist' position it's just a cowardly one.[/quote] "Grabbing at random junk"? Talking about the matter at hand is now "grabbing at random junk"? NG and Kaskus are the focus of this event, to say I am grabbing at random junk, when it's these two I'm talking about, is nothing short of idiotic. No, it's a realist position. Kaskus lost at the onset of the war, you're simply grasping at straws in your attempt to prove me wrong. [quote]Why would I rethink it. It's absolutely true. The 'reasoning,' if we can call it that, behind your proclamation that Kaskus' has no effective sovereignty and must simply bend over and take whatever NG wants to give them is the same cowards reasoning that lead to losing alliances historically accepting atrocious terms that disrespected their sovereignty. Legion and ONOS accepted your 'reasoning' here and as a result accepted Viceroys and disbandment. FAN, for one example, took a different view and guess what? No viceroys, no disbandment. But if you had been in charge, or someone who thought like you, FAN would have disbanded years ago, surely.[/quote] Interesting examples. But no, it isn't true at all. Most of these alliances had very little choice in the matter. I don't know if you were in their shoes or not (you probably weren't, given your outlook) but they could either accept the terms they were given, or be grinded into dust. I for one don't blame the people who made the decisions to take the terms, because they had to think about the survivability of their alliance. They weren't cowards, as you suggest, they merely wanted to prevent their people from being constantly battered, which is fairly honourable from my point of view. FAN took a beating over a period of two years, the only things keeping them alive being a pure, absolute hatred of NPO and a tight, tough-as-nails community. If there had been no Karma, there's a really good chance that the FAN we see today wouldn't be the same as the FAN we'd see in that scenario. But this is besides the point, I don't know why you're reaching for such far-fetched examples here, they're vastly different situations. NG is beating down Kaskus, and since Kaskus has virtually no political or physical weight to throw around in order to get the terms they want, NG can do whatever it likes. You're completely ignoring this. [quote]What's funny is you think those numbers actually matter. [/quote] You heard it here first folks, wartime stats don't actually matter. [quote]Really? Go ahead, dig back for the quote I was responding to and just try to explain how it meant anything other than what it says on its face. [/quote] You basically said two things: that numbers have nothing to do with sovereignty and that I don't know what sovereignty is. If numbers have nothing to do with sovereignty, tell me this. There's a one-man AA who declares existence and a thirty-five man AA who does the same about roughly the same time. Do you think alliances will be more inclined to recognise the sovereignty of the one-man AA, or the thirty-five man AA? You need to drop this line of argument, it's getting you nowhere.

[quote name='Sigrun Vapneir' timestamp='1321031586' post='2843233'] "You've already lost" - well, no. With your mindset (which is sadly quite common) YOU would have already lost, in their shoes. Kaskus (and NG for that matter) are made of sterner stuff than you, and it ain't over till it's over.[/quote] No. Just no. To think that Kaskus is actually going to win against NG (the definition of win here being enough of a military victory so as to force NG to accept the terms that Kaskus puts on the table) is ridiculous, not least because it will prove NG can't handle a six-man alliance. I like the character attack, but you need to try harder; simply because I don't go off on a random tangent about needing to stand up against alliances like NG and suicide rush my nation does not mean I am not made of stern stuff. [quote]Suryanto is right though. Your cowardly mindset is a perfect example of why the planet sucks. It's the mindset that resulted in so many atrocious 'terms' over the history of planet Bob. It's a mindset that serves power because it doesnt dare to resist.[/quote] He really isn't. Please tell me how I'm cowardly? I have no just cause to dedicate my nation's war machines to, why should I attack an established alliance for the hell of it? Really, stop being so obtuse. What the hell? The coward mindset has resulted in so many atrocious terms over Bob's history? I'll give you a moment to rethink that one. Hurr durr, I'm Vulpes Inculta, I'm resisting the power, hurr. I almost snorted with laughter at that. [quote]In other words you have no basis for your pronouncements other than your submissive bias.[/quote] That's funny. I'm pretty sure my basis is pure fact. Y'know, the whole 220 nations versus 6 thing? The whole 9,756,021 NS versus what is now 225,314 NS thing? Yeah, that's not really bias. [quote]Sovereignty adheres to all who refuse to release it, and flees from all who allow it to go. Numbers have nothing to do with it. Suryanto Tan could be solo on his AA, and you could have 1,000 nations on your own - his sovereignty would be secure and yours would be only waiting for the moment to capitulate. In short, you know nothing of sovereignty. [/quote] Oh now this is just silly. Not only that, but it proves you either missed or ignored my point completely.

Roger that, nothing new GMT, continue with recon. Also, o/ Skyrim

[quote name='suryanto tan' timestamp='1320992662' post='2843123'] I beg to differ. At this stage, it is still too early to judge. But I think we have to agree in disagree on this matter.[/quote] That you think you actually have a shot at victory is impressively stupid. Yeah, no !@#$ we'll have to agree to disagree. [quote]You spoke with such confidence about Non Grata as if you have the first hand experience dealing with them. People should not assume too much without trying to find out the real truth. This kind of mindset reduces your ability to judge clearly and will make you too scare to do anything.[/quote] I've known the likes of PC and iFOK (the core elements of NG) for a while now. You should believe me when I say that neither take too kindly to a bunch of people knocking on their doors with nukes and a rather silly little CB. No mate, this kind of mindset enables me to not put my nation into a suicide rush that essentially accomplishes nothing. [quote]You have such wisdom in submitting yourself to what you consider greater force. This might be one of those submissive personality I referred to earlier. But I do not know you that well to make such assumption. You may be a greater person than what you have displayed here.[/quote] Wow. Anyone with a full brain can tell that is a load of !@#$, which you need to cover the fact you're having these grand delusions of winning against a force ten times more superior to you. What I'm making is a grim statement of fact, but you're so locked up in some kind of alternate dimension that you're fully believing I'm submitting to NG. Something about this convinces me you're not a realist, because I'm telling you how this conflict is going to play out and you're having none of it. [quote]For me, I believe in negotiating the surrender term. Each party will come to the table trying to convince each other to accept terms that both party find more lucrative than prolonging the conflict.[/quote] There won't be any negotiation. Jesus, you're so deluded. You don't have any weight to throw around, so how can you negotiate for surrender terms when you're A. the aggressor who initiated the conflict in the first place and B. the eventual loser? It wouldn't really matter to NG if you continued to fight them, these guys love war, and, whilst they're perfectly capable of handling your little gang all by themselves, the option to allow their allies to chip in is not out of the picture. You need to stop smoking whatever it is you're smoking and start understanding the gravity of the situation. [quote]I think you do assume too much. We never said we are trying to stop the forces of evil. Please refer to my post [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=106517&view=findpost&p=2841635"][size="5"][b]here[/b][/size][/url] to see my response to such similar question raised by some members from Non Grata and GOONS. I hope it helps. You are welcome.[/quote] You can dress it up however you like, it's clear the only reasoning used in your declaration was "we must stand up and fight against these ebil people and show everyone not to be afraid". What a waste, really. Everyone already knows NG isn't some invincible force to be afraid of (don't get me wrong guys, you're good, but not [i]that[/i] good) so the best guess I've got is that you're embarking on some personal crusade in a misguided effort to quench a personal conviction. That's fine and all, nothing wrong with that, but the least you could do is not stupidly say "NG play this role so we are going to play the opposite role" and just tell it like it is.