Beefspari

[quote name='nutkase' timestamp='1330008042' post='2926638'] So by not going by the norm, they should get belittled?[/quote] Yes, as long as the policy is stupid. Weren't we all just here a week ago arguing about how NG isn't following the norm in their latest tech raid? Except all the sides were reversed? [img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aeris-_-L5.jpg[/img]

[quote name='mdnss69' timestamp='1330007587' post='2926629'] That they would rather not sells their slots than sell to you says a hell of a lot about them, so kudos to UE. They'll sell tech, but only to people they like and trust. Like I said, one size doesn't fit all. [/quote] Plenty of alliances already do that (GOONs included). But they do it by not accepting those deals. Not by accepting the money and then not paying the tech. [img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aeris-_-L3.jpg[/img]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1330000481' post='2926532'] Do you realize the implicit irony in a policy where big nations threaten small nations with war is you won't be in range, basically, right? That's kind of why I was never for this kind of thing since it can't work.[/quote] Are you sure you were paying attention when you were in Umbrella? How hard do you think it would be for Umbrella to convince GOONs to go fight a war? It could be initiated with a single PM to Sardonic that starts with "Please roll..." [img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisdisL3.jpg[/img] [quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1330005408' post='2926586'] Just GOONS won't be enough, NationRuler. Your arrogance is unsurpassed.[/quote] Are you sure? There was that one time we fought 14 alliances at the same time and then they all paid us reps. [img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerishehL7.jpg[/img] [right]Besides, the only way this makes sense either way is A) you only punish the offending nation in which case GOONs can handle that just fine and will absolutely "be enough," or B) you punish the entire alliance in which case all tiers will be necessary and MK and Umbrella get involved anyway. So what you're saying is nonsensical. [img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aeriswutR4.jpg[/img][/right] [quote name='nutkase' timestamp='1330006889' post='2926612'] Seems everyone is forgetting Roguefest. [/quote] What exactly happened at Roguefest that matters here? Unless you mean to agree with our fearsome might that time we defeated a zillion rogues at once. [img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerishehL6.jpg[/img]

[quote name='nutkase' timestamp='1330004422' post='2926567'] 2. If people are sending out random tech deals, again you have to expect it will not go smoothly.[/quote] Having a tech deal go awry due to individual incompetence is totally different than gov-sanctioned permission to just take money and not pay it back. UE knows (or at least I hope they know) that nobody is going to take them up on a "refund" because it's a huge waste of slots. It's a pretty effective policy though I have to admit; if UE wanted to make people hate them and hand out a CB for anyone that really wants it, this is a great execution. [img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aeris-_-L2.jpg[/img]

Why waste time filling up with dozens of treaties with stupid alliances when you can just treaty all the alliances you like 2-3 times each? [img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisyayL1.jpg[/img]

[quote name='grahamkeatley' timestamp='1330003480' post='2926555'] Let me just rephrase what you said; Their alliance will now be aware of the policy that it's okay to refund their mistake of accepting a tech deal.[/quote] "Refunding" a tech deal is a huge joke, and it's really sad if you don't realize that. [img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aeris-_-L6.jpg[/img]

[quote name='memoryproblems' timestamp='1329980543' post='2926352'] Not exactly, but I hadn't exactly counted upon you to understand what it says. Essentially, what this policy says that if you're not on the UE whitelist and you attempt to buy technology from a UE nation, it will be rejected the majority of the time, however on the off-chance that it is mistakenly accepted, that nation will receive a full refund in cash rather then the tech. [/quote] If it was as rare as you say they could just handle it on a case-by-case basis in private. By making this a big deal and announcing it publicly they take out the "off-chance" factor and give all their members a free pass to keep as much money as they feel like. Their alliance will now be aware of the policy that it's okay to just accept tech deals and not pay them. [img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aeris-_-L1.jpg[/img]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1329941257' post='2925661'] They were going to. "Techbombing" it is called, it was explained to me how it works, and it's one of the most malicious abuses of good faith I've ever heard of. We decided to put our hoof down and stop it before it began. [/quote] So UE is so incapable of completing basic tech deals that they've decided to arbitrarily deem any tech deals they feel like as a donation. This can't [i]possibly[/i] backfire. [img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aeris-_-L5.jpg[/img]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1329415642' post='2921888'] I did before. Leet Guy said "put up or shut up punk" with regards to the bros !@#$. I did. How is pursuing legit grievances psycho? I'd say gunning for someone that is the reason for the diplomatic relations(DH would not have existed without me) when they can't even see what you're saying about them is much worse. I was just a bump in the road somehow to get to Xiphosis. I really don't get it.[/quote] No, dude. All you've done so far is talk. If we could be taken down just with talk, Schattenmann would've defeated us ages ago. You have "legit grievances" with half the world here. When it's one person versus everyone, you need to step back and realize that maybe you're the one with the problem. You're free to justify it and go about doing your thing (which you don't understand). But yes, you're nuts. [img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aeris-_-L3.jpg[/img]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1329415089' post='2921883'] mrwuss: the rest of DH/PB isn't responding to me for a reason. I suggest you follow suit. The gag order is fun to witness. And you idiots thought I was irrelevant? Pfft. [/quote] There's no "Doomhouse/PB" gag order. We're just getting tired of listening to you talk. Personally, I used to like you, before you went totally psycho and decided to try and take down a dozen alliances single-handedly. mrwuss is right: put up or shut up. [img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisdisL3.jpg[/img]

[quote name='White Chocolate' timestamp='1329346231' post='2921253'] Well, you just said GOONS has the same policy (which I was not aware of), so there's two large alliances that allow "tech raids" of alliances outside the standards of "common practice" in some situations.[/quote] Are you in NG? Or GOONs? Does us having these policies make your alliance consider adopting these policies? Do you see other alliances flocking to this idea so they can DoW on larger alliances? If not then what the hell are you talking about? [img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisfffL8.jpg[/img]

[quote name='JoshuaR' timestamp='1328934505' post='2918171'] No, the GOONS representative was making an ass of himself (for example stating that they weren't going to join because of the no-raid-black rule) which was one of the essential elements of the treaty. Their application was a joke because they never wanted to join. Had they seriously wanted to be admitted, the detractors' nay votes (that this was just another old GOONS) wouldn't have been enough to stop their admission. That's partly why you never needed to vote. There was no vote to be had. [/quote] Was this fw? I remember this happening and it was pretty funny. The joke app was mostly driven by him I think. fw did a bunch of stupid stuff like that. Some of it we're still reeling from. [img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisdisL5.jpg[/img]

[quote name='Olaf Styke' timestamp='1329311095' post='2921033'] Since when is a member of an alliance of 2 million NS considered 'unaligned'? [/quote] I was making examples of similarly stupid concepts. That was directly in reference to things like The Moldavi Doctrine and Yellow Number 5. I'm sorry it went over your head. [img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aeris-_-L5.jpg[/img] [quote name='Spaarlaamp' timestamp='1329312744' post='2921037'] He didn't say that? [/quote] She. [img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisdisL9.jpg[/img]

[quote name='enderland' timestamp='1329271920' post='2920798'] Who does set the bar? [/quote] Individual alliances set their own personal bars. There's nothing that the entirety of Bob agrees on universally. This isn't some arbitrary exception. We didn't agree on the definition of micro before, still don't, and never will. This changes nothing. [img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aeris-_-L5.jpg[/img] [quote name='Olaf Styke' timestamp='1329310258' post='2921025'] The fact that it isn't new doesn't make it any less palatable. It's a !@#$ policy either way. [/quote] That's fair. There are plenty of policies I consider stupid. You're free to think this is stupid, I'm free to think protecting an entire sphere of unaligned is stupid, someone else is free to think that secret treaties are stupid. That's not the debate topic though. The discussion is about if this "changes" things or "sets the bar." It doesn't. [img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisdisL11.jpg[/img]

[quote name='White Chocolate' timestamp='1329233764' post='2920311'] But in THIS case, we're talking about an alliance that is rank 64 out of 134 listed alliances, has an overall alliance strength of 2,027,158, has 360 nukes and 31 nations. Does that fit your definition of a micro? If this is a new standard of a good group to "raid" instead of respecting enough to declare an actual war, starting from rank 65 on down, the rest of us should start making plans to merge.[/quote] NG raiding an alliance doesn't "set the bar" on who can be raided. GOONs has a similar policy in that we have a numeric rule for alliance size but can throw that out the window if we want. Different alliances have different rules on what can be raided. If you don't like it then the good news is you don't have to follow NG's example. They could raid GPA if they wanted; it might not be a good idea, but it doesn't mean the entire world goes to chaos if they do. Trying to claim this is going to be the new standard is just nonsense. [img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisdisL3.jpg[/img]

It's okay I guess. [img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aeris-_-L2.jpg[/img]

[quote name='kevin32891' timestamp='1328841826' post='2917600'] So is GOONS going to reclaim its dominance over the black team once more? [/quote] Yes, we are. First we get sanction, then we disband NOIR behind the scenes. [img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerishehL6.jpg[/img]

Ding dong NOIR is dead. [img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aeriswutL1.jpg[/img]

[quote name='the rebel' timestamp='1328710563' post='2916700'] Like people who complain about everything thats has nothing to do with them. "That's exactly what we don't need more of around here". [/quote] I love it when people complain about complainers, like they're not complaining too. This topic has nothing to do with you either, what makes you better than me? [img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisyayL1.jpg[/img] [quote name='Lord Caparo' timestamp='1328777927' post='2917225'] Go on, touch them, i dare you to. [/quote] I'll go ask right away. [img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerishehL7.jpg[/img]

Very well, I remember pulling the same argument in Schatt's anniversary thread, but I'm just saying if you call someone unimportant or accuse them of contributing nothing to the community, you should either have done something in your time in CN or be a well-contributing member. Obviously wuss doesn't fit that criteria.Also, would it be beating a dead horse to say that the pictures are annoying? I guess it would defeat my purpose because that's why you do them, right? You don't have to be a leader to point out Schat isn't a good leader. You also don't have to be an artist to dislike art, or a chef to dislike food. Trash is trash. Anyone can see that. Saying "mrwuss isn't anyone important so he can't say Schat isn't" is a pure deflection. And what about the pictures?

Every time mrwuss' dumb taunts make a moralist post an essay, an angel gets its wings. Must be someone important if Schat is blogging about him.

Micros protecting micros. That's exactly what we don't need more of around here. [img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aeris-_-L1.jpg[/img]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1328642309' post='2916253'] An OOC attack will get an OOC response, not an IC one. That's what happens when individuals not only cross the line, but leap gleefully beyond it ... [/quote] Well there goes your moral high ground. You're condemning people for doing exactly what you're very eagerly doing. You no longer have any legs to stand on and are certifiably trash. [img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisdisL7.jpg[/img]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1328641999' post='2916245'] Given what has transpired, why on earth would I care if MY actions are "OOC" at this point? [/quote] Because it would make you and everyone who stands for you severe hypocrites. [img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisdisL9.jpg[/img]

So let me get this straight. Hoo is threatening very harsh OOC retribution against the entire MK community. I'm eager to see what people like Schattenmann have to say about this given the very strong moral stance against OOC attacks. I'm similarly interested to see what people have to say about how Hoo is just as eager to jump to OOC attacks as MK supposedly is. [img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisyayL1.jpg[/img]