Buds The Man

I like NG hope this works out for them its a pretty big move. Best of luck to all involved.

[quote name='Stumpy Jung Il' timestamp='1334944534' post='2956193'] Howdy. [/quote] ahh my king good to see you. Purple is better today for your appearance.

[quote name='Emperor Khan' timestamp='1334872151' post='2955896'] Watch out for this guy Scorp, I hear he's a stalker... [/quote] Is this where you ended up Khan I will have to retract my previous statement and wish nuclear fire upon you all. <3 me some Khan

[quote name='Zoomzoomzoom' timestamp='1334758313' post='2955317'] Did you really put Nemesis onto this list? While the alliance was active in its early days it never became cohesive, statistically strong, or politically relevant aside from Hoo's connections. Once the three original triums left (fairly early into its existence mind you) the alliance crumbled and stuck around far too long. Also, what did someone like Kronos do to deserve such a high spot? I always just thought of them as raiders and a nuclear rogue haven/war slot filling alliance. It also seemed like they couldn't hold onto a government like Nemesis. edit: lack of Poison Clan [/quote] PC needs to be on that list. Even though we would always end up fighting in the end it was more for fun than true hatred at least that is how I always felt. I would defend Kronos posistion on the list they were a great AA that left well before its time should have been up. [quote name='flak attack' timestamp='1334784727' post='2955456'] No Athens? Athens did more in this world than most of that list combined. [/quote] Athens in my mind should be a top 5 on this list. No matter if you loved them or hated them they stirred the pot very well. TDSM8 needs to be much higher. I miss stumpy.

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1334648427' post='2954746'] Your increased interest in our bloc/allies is noted Aeros. [/quote] youve lost that loving feeling oh oh that loving feeling, Bring back that loving feeling before its gone, gone, gone. [quote name='Altheus' timestamp='1334672450' post='2954827'] I've thought about this a lot, due to a similiar set of circumstances that UPN was in with the "Revenge" AA. i.e. a far smaller AA taking on a much larger one with the following weapons at their disposal. a) Huge warchests, huge enough that they can easily keep on fighting for a year. b) Small nation strengths, or at least allowing themselves to take a beating in the first phase of the war to drop down in size. Enabling them to only have to deal with the bottom end of the bigger alliance. c) Propaganda. It's easy to make out the larger AA is incompetent by arguing that they're not winning. Which of course they're not, but that's due to a) & b) rather than any other wider reason. Extra brownie points can be had if the larger AA is unpopular to start off with. First thing I noticed is that the larger AA is basically on a loser from the start. They can take horrendous amounts of damage, have to put more productive finance projects on the side to concentrate on the threat and all the while get accused of being crap fighters for not being able to deal with something far smaller than themselves. The smaller AA isn't in any better a position, expect for that they have less to lose, less to organise and come out of the process smelling of roses. There is only one thing the bigger AA can really do. Which is decide on surrender terms that aren't so weak that won't make them look any worse than they already do and then stick to it at all costs. To back down is a disaster. That's why UPN carried on hacking away at the Revenge AA for over a year, until we got what we wanted. Because not to do so would have been to invite more rogues. Destro left this world (not what we wanted) but that's the sort of commitment you require to deter more attacks. I'm not a fan of GOONS and the circumstances about how this war came about are very different, but I do think it's underestimated sometimes how difficult it is to deal with large warchest-funded rogue attacks and how much commitment is actually needed to win against them. [/quote] Not often i agree with Altheus but hes spot on here.

well she quoted me I wish i could see what she wrote im sure it would have been thrilling.

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1334687062' post='2954893'] That I did, but I'd be mildly surprised if Kaskus took it to the ZI of every one of their nations; hell one of them is in peace mode so it'd probably never happen. Also, I'm not in Pandora's Box; my words are merely my own thoughts, desires, or interpretations. They bear only as much weight as you give to me. [/quote] LOL well played sir well played. I believe the point hal and aeros were making is that if this continues, Goons and allies will loose more than if they were to stop it now and take the offer that was made. In a large scaled multi AA war Goons/Allies strategy works much better the hard line is much easier to take as the opponents would have to take in to consideration what was happening to their somewhat less prepared allies. I believe that GOONs will end up loosing far more for pressing this issue due to pride. Once again I have no issue with this war as both sides are upholding their internal policies and both sides were well aware of the costs for their decisions.

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1334686440' post='2954886'] Considering they're not all ZI'd it's a little premature to condemn them for doing more than ZI. [/quote] Not condemning anyone, but you yourself stated earlier untill they paid reps they would be held at war. I have no beef with this war. I think its gone to far, but Goons is following their internal policy and their opposistion is as well. Just posting my marginalized opinion.

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1334684038' post='2954879'] I believe they have. Have you? [/quote] I guess we could ask you the same question. Goons has every right to continue this war, Kaskus and Mongols have the right to not pay the reps. Considering the length of time this has dragged out when has the cost become to great. ZI them and let them go everyone gets casualties and has fun. Yet you all continue to push for reps that I doubt will ever get paid so its worth more to them to continue fighting.

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1334549271' post='2954069'] They built those spheres after abandoning NPO like rats or during the Pax Pacifica as little more than extensions of NPO's power. Every sphere has to have more than one alliance in it, and they can't all be egalitarian utopias; there are leaders and there are constituents. All military treaties are about security! Invicta's relationship with NPO is no different than VE's relationship to GOD and GOONS. Invicta stayed exactly where Invicta wanted to be, the idea that in the case of Invicta having treaties for defense is spinelessness but in the case of Valhalla it's political masterminding is silly. In fact, in keeping a treaty despite the threats, Invicta displayed exactly the sort of altruistic characteristics that were so lacking in the "Coaltion of Cowards." [/quote] You know schatt for being a relatively smart guy sometimes I just cant believe the drivel that comes out of your mouth.

[quote name='Balder' timestamp='1334602255' post='2954365'] Roquentin, I don't think anyone (including Bob himself) would argue that his plans to jump Ragnarok from SF to Mj worked out for ANYONE be it himself or Ragnarok. He destroyed most of his credibility as a leader and a political figure. I've got no beef whatsoever with Paradox, and I hope they're happy with their decision to put more faith into him. Still, this was not his plan and it should be noted as such. Also, I'd have to strongly disagree with your assertion that anyone can be successful in Bob through resourcefulness alone. If we take a look at some of the personalities and individuals which have led alliances either to sanction or prominence in Cybernations (Terry Howard, Ramirus Maximus, Ephriam Grey and Sardonic come to mind offhand) it becomes pretty clear that there's quite a few other factors involved. Luck, lying and backstabbing can be just as useful as resourcefulness and I'd argue that Ilyani's benefitted from those more than resourcefulness. You cite MK for the things that have happened to RoK, and I'd love to agree but that too isn't correct. HE hurt RoK's potential, and HE hurt RoK's security through his actions and the decisions he made not only as Emperor but as a member of Ragnarok's High Council. [/quote] Just to clear things up Kait was just as important to the MJ signing as she was there when the ground work was laid. Not all of RoKs problems lay at Bobs feet.

Congrats Scorp and TIO keep on keeping on.

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1334406118' post='2953090'] Looking at the most recent two paragraphs of your alliance history in your CN Wiki makes me wonder why you are so happy to see NPO cancel on Invicta, So you guys were allied to Invicta in the most recent war you fought, why not anymore and why are you happy to see Invicta lose more allies? Edit: Seeing as Invicta has a MDoAP with Europa, I guess it makes sense in that regard. I would want to sever all ties with an alliance so attached to GOONS as well. [/quote] We havent been allied to Invicta since bi-polar. They didnt lose more allies they have begun to move down a divergent path from an old ally. Its interesting to see all the different agendas being pushed out in this thread. My opinion of Invicta is I dont know why anyone would be allied to them. They are always highly supportive till the flag drops then they want out as quickly as possible. (To there credit they did stick it out till the end of the war but not with out constant prodding) Yes Invicta stuck it out with NPO longer than most allies of NPO but it wasnt out of pure loyalty as it was IMO Invicta basically needed an anchor. They appear to be changing said anchor so this shouldnt be a shock. NPO and Invicta both enjoyed benifits and draw backs during the time of this treaty. I wish both parties good luck and offer a cheers to NPO for this.

[quote name='Jaiar' timestamp='1333771355' post='2949458'] Jumping from one side of the web to the other for improved security. C'mon Roq it's not that hard to see. [/quote] You know comments like these make me laugh. Simply put if they were looking to jump to a "Side of the web" for security only why would they have picked us. They would be better off picking a PB or PF aa for that. We can and will do our part but really saying this is a jump to the power of the web is stupid. For those who want to have short memories this is actually pretty simple. DVD ex IRON worked hand in hand with Val during Karma and BiPolar, Term former member both members of .gov who know us pretty damn well. No major conspiracy here.

[quote name='Wu Tang Clan' timestamp='1334154552' post='2951079'] Congrats on the great looking line-up though. Bob, Cent, megamind, Owned You [/quote] Ill echo this and raise you a maladishie

[quote name='Emperor Whimsical' timestamp='1334170121' post='2951130'] I love it when they play hard to get. [/quote] We can still meet for a beer though anytime

[quote name='Emperor Whimsical' timestamp='1334108312' post='2950919'] Viking sphere or bust. [/quote] LOL im sure that will happen LOL. Ineresting the new ties comming around. Hope it works out for both parties.

TTK i never fought a war First NpO war fought GR NpO STA Karma war PC UMBRELLA KRONOS (good times) RIA and a few others BiPolar FAN NoR DT PC Choader Titan and FH were awesome Last War RIA GOD

[quote name='chefjoe' timestamp='1333821220' post='2949636'] I stamped my OK on this just to confuse you Roq Now maybe you will have to give credence to the possibility that you dont know everything, nor do you know where everyone may fall or go in the coming FA line ups.....makes it grand dont it? [/quote] Now Joe dont go ninjin no one that dont neen ninjed. Some seem confused good. Its good for you. I welcome SE to the family and look forward to rebuilding some old friendships from the past. O/ SE

[quote name='Kzoppistan' timestamp='1333642802' post='2948637'] Ardus said that. Well, when you get tired of carrying their purses for them maybe you'll find that toadying up to the dominant powers might be safe, but is rarely satisfying. Now that pesky bloc is dissolved, though, maybe you'll fit in. I see you working very hard to not make waves. Dominant powers like that. Good luck. [/quote] Please show me where we have done any of that drivel you are spouting. We have not and never have sucked up to any of the "current powers that be". We have been to the top of the mountain and now we choose to be exactly where we are at. The bloc disolved due to internal issues not because of out side influences. So if you want to give MK a +1 for having a part in MJ disolving then go ahead. Its incorrect but nothing I say is going to change your mind. I find the fact that outsiders constantly try to pit us against certain other parties laughable. If people want us we are not hard to find. Pack a lunch and come get us. Otherwise we are currently very content in the world we have created.

[quote name='Kzoppistan' timestamp='1333640401' post='2948625'] Equivocal to skirting the peripheral of the power spheres of the global stage. "I envision a world where Mjolnir's influence is nominal despite a hard earned military victory." [/quote] OHHH ZING do you feel better. Do you have your big girl panties on now feeling good. Once again MJ is no more let it rest. It achieved what it could and then it faded. The comments by Leet or Flak (I honestly cant remember who said that) were made in private then leaked. If you look at it from the other perspective I understand what it means. NO bloc or grouping of AAs wishes to see another gain greater power than itself. Considering the rocky past MK and Val had as well as RoK and MK its a very understandable posistion. It was a comment made to ensure the safety of ones own AA as well as its allies. @ Tan Yes fighting for what you believe in can have its own rewards. Valhalla has been on both ends of the stick and we regret nothing we have done over the past 2-3 years. If this is a fight your willing to be in and its cost is acceptable then i wish you luck in getting to your goals.

[quote name='suryanto tan' timestamp='1333638587' post='2948620'] I know I am at no position to say this, but consider to do something that has more impact. If the fish you wish to catch is an easy fry, well, it is not an accomplishment at all. Consider to change the world, the power map. That way you and your members can be proud since you do accomplished something really BIG. Valhalla along with Mjolnir have the capability to do it. That I am 100% sure. You deserved to be the main player and get back the glory you used to have.. Your old debt can always be settled (again) much later. [/quote] We have our glory and we are where we choose to be. We set our own standards and the rest of the cyberverse can go spin. Our place in this verse is where ever we want it to be whether that is the main stage or not. I am very proud to be a member of Valhalla and I am extreamly proud of our membership. Days long past are just that, in the past, we are not the Valhalla of 3 years ago for better or worse we have changed. IMO Valhalla is a better alliance now than it ever has been. Of course im prejuidice as I had a major part in the change. Mjolnir doesnt even exist anymore. While we still hold treaties with NoR and DT MJ as an entity is gone. I would say this to you as well. Jumping in to a frying pan just to do it has very little impact as well. Throwing yourselves on your swords will do very little to impact things in the long run.

[quote name='flak attack' timestamp='1333567811' post='2948323'] To be fair, some of us just want a good fight. We aren't particular about who it's with. [/quote] Fair enough but wouldnt that put both you and I in a bit of pickle. Seems to be a lot of hostility comming at us from DH NG and allies these days. I thought we had squashed much of this but apparently not :shrugs:. As far as Aeros goes you can no more hold Valhalla to the fire for his comments than we can hold MK for tamerlane or quiona. Hes simply stating his personal opinion of this war and its origins. Personally I think its over reaction, but GOONs are generally consistent with their actions and seem to be following their policy. Because of that I have no issues with it. Mongols were given a cheap out to this and they chose not to take it. Fool hardy IMO but hey they too are just following their intenral policy. So really both sides are right here and its good to see for good or bad parties sticking to their guns. I hope this micro stuff ends soon though as Im sure we all have bigger fish to catch.

[quote name='Emperor Marx' timestamp='1333509192' post='2948107'] What would I have to be bitter about? [/quote] Thats a good question, I will follow it up with why you want a piece of Valhalla so bad that you would love it if we joined in.

[quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1333505105' post='2948079'] Maybe you guys should hit GOONs in defense of Kaskus and Mongols then Aeros [/quote] Why GOONs is simply following their policy. Its a reach as far as im concerned as a raider takes on his own responsibility this war is more out of boredom than true political reasons. We have no dog in this hunt either way. Hope all are having fun. [quote name='Emperor Marx' timestamp='1333505159' post='2948080'] Oh I would love that. Please. [/quote] You still bitter about something Marx if you got issues work it out, you know where to find me.