Londo Mollari

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1330989775' post='2934217'] I don't really get that since the betrayal occurred long before I ever pulled a knife out. You sold me out, not the other way around. It takes a lot for me to turn on someone. I argue seriously and I don't argue ironic points. Also Londo: that's great coming from the real Don Quixote of CN. [/quote] What makes you think I was going to let you be [b]DON[/b] Quixote? I'm still puzzling out which one of the trinity of Schattenmann, Roquentin, and Myth gets to be Don Quixote and which gets to be Sancho. Right now I'm leaning towards Schattenmann as Don Quixote and you and Myth as Sanchos, but I'll keep an open mind.

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1330989356' post='2934208'] Can you refresh my memory? I have a lot to respond to, as you can tell, since I am taking on your entire posting squad single-handedly. [/quote] [IMG]http://www.heritage-history.com/books/baldwin/quixote/zpage080.gif[/IMG] Maybe you should just consider that you have lambasted? congratulated? pooped yourself? enough over TLR and NPO's fine treaty and quit [url=http://www.heritage-history.com/books/baldwin/quixote/zpage080.gif]tilting at windmills[/url].

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1330987696' post='2934190'] That has to be like the dumbest thing I have ever heard Londo, tbh. [/quote] Fortunately for me I do not derive my self-worth from your approbation or disapprobation. I know what I did, and that's all that really matters. [quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1330987875' post='2934192'] That 6 day war ended up not being a particularly major world event. And I'd have to wager that it was all cleared via MK before the first shot was fired. So I will still stand by my statement. MK has been at the forefront and seen as the voice of the coalition for the major global events of the past 3+ years from that sphere. So it's not like MK is just now doing it. It's been the case since Karma. [/quote] Not a major world event? You don't think that the disbandment of Frostbite and Citadel (two very powerful and influential blocs) as a result of a little 6 day war (in which your allies didn't seem to be able to defend you) was a [b]major world event[/b]? You don't think that TOP's increasing paranoia that fed into their making the mistakes they did that cost them dear and let us win the war that they made inevitable was major? You sure are hard to impress. I don't have logs from that time period, but I believe that what happened was more of a notification to MK that we *had* to hit TPF, and why. We would have sought approval for something we wanted to do that was risky and not an imperative - from all of CnG. Why? Because that is what allies do for one another. The attack on TPF was absolutely demanded by our sense of honor, and there was no question about that. The entire Athens government was fully unified. We had not been wanting to attack TPF at all, it had not been a topic of discussion, but when we were notified of the CB we felt we had no choice but to attack to defend our honor.

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1330936651' post='2933796'] The reason people say that CnG/TLR etc are vassal states to the Mushroom Kingdom is because in most every major event over the past 3+ years from that area of the treaty web Archon/The Mushroom Kingdom has been the public face and identified as the leader. That's fine and well for you when it suits your purposes. But when people outside your blocs think it's the truth you always get upset and deny it. Like it or not, DH/CnG and even PB to a large extent are viewed by a large number of players as MK toadies because MK has been at the forefront of so many of your affairs for so long. As for the treaty, eh, I am not particularly enthralled with it to be honest. [/quote] Something in particular comes to mind, and that was that there was this little business of your alliance getting rolled in December of 2009.... I wonder who started that? Huh. Must have been MK. If MK has more fully taken the limelight now, consider perhaps that this is because others no longer choose to do what it takes to participate in the limelight sharing? Hmmmmm? Because everything I've seen from MK suggests to me that MK is in fact a good team player when there is a "team". [quote name='The Pansy' timestamp='1330961980' post='2933934'] Purple has never been the same without his guidance Come back Stumpy, we need you. [/quote] I miss Stumpy. [quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1330964598' post='2933965'] Considering they proposed attacking NPO months before for !@#$% and giggles, I don't agree. At some point after that, some sort of OOC relationship formed between the active members/gov and NPO's gov. How Athens views preempts is entirely based on whether or not they like the alliance in question. "I was for the war before I was against it." - Athens Letum even admitted that he knew NPO was going to get rolled at some point anyway in GATO's embassy. The naivete of people here never fails to astonish me. [/quote] In the Redoubt of Mind, we have institutions at our Universities called fraternities. When someone is coming to join a fraternity, the existing fraternity members enact a period of hazing to both assess and develop the character of the inductee. Our military also does something similar. We are given to understand that this has [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hazing]sociological parallels in other universes[/url]. Do not imagine that I am so uncreative as to always intend the same thing by "war". I am more creative than that. There is a war to destroy, and there is a superior war which is intended to make your foe ONE OF YOU. The strongest warrior turns his respected enemies into comrades, and if we do not allow this to occur, the political dynamic remains identical for unending time. I regularly discussed with NPO Imperial Officers the amusing possibility of tech raiding NPO back in 2010. I have been labeled as an attack dog by many, but the truth is far more shocking.

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1330934346' post='2933772'] I appreciate your endorsement of my mission, Londo. [/quote] Lol. [quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1330934559' post='2933777'] So what MK used to stand for back when I left FCC to fight for them during the noCB War, although a lot has changed since then. [/quote] Yeah a lot has changed. Every alliance has changed. The people involved have changed. The world has changed. This is life.

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1330933613' post='2933764'] Them being the largest and most powerful alliance was made it a meaningful bloc at least, what happened within the bloc I don't know much about other than what could be seen from the outside. [/quote] No, what made it a meaningful bloc was our commitment to defending our friends no matter what the consequences were. At the time it was a novel idea. Ideas can and do change the world.

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1330933306' post='2933759'] Without MK it never would of happened, regardless of who's idea it was. Although I'm not surprised to hear it wasn't MK's idea. Although I think it was Athens who was most opposed to it when MK dropped all their treaties suddenly, so if TLR is Athen 2.0 then they are on the right track. [/quote] I dunno. HotU, Camelot, LOST, TDSM8, and Deck of Cards were all pretty chill. I could have seen it happening either way. Obviously MK was the largest and most powerful alliance. But they never acted that way within the bloc. I think you don't know 2 !@#$% about CnG, lol.

[quote name='rsoxbronco1' timestamp='1330906942' post='2933460'] If you've ever had to deal with the [s]fallout[/s]epic paths of glory of a londo decision, you might be Athenian [/quote] FTFY BRO [quote name='Sir Humphrey' timestamp='1330914002' post='2933576'] Congratulations to our allies in NPO on this upgrade. I know that a lot of work has gone into it, and I rejoice that your diplomatic "rehabilitation" is now complete I trust that TLR will prove to be faithful friends and loyal allies (as I know NPO to be), and I look forward to a renewed era of C&G independence. [/quote] Be careful what you wish for.

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1330916986' post='2933623'] [b]Considering CnG was an MK created project[/b], but even after MK left the bloc they still let MK lead them around makes them seem like an DH pet at times. Although with this treaty they are better positioning themselves so they don't need to be so reliant on MK to lead them in their FA policies, so I'm actually happy to see this treaty. I'm pretty sure MK was against the ODP when TLR signed that with NPO, so I think its good to see this relationship strengthened as long as NPO doesn't start becoming an MK puppet due to this, but my gut feeling tells me its those who don't want their FA policies to revolve around MK that pushed this treaty and NPO has no plans to led MK lead them around, which is why I give my congrats to both alliances on this. [/quote] Not really. CnG was originally the joint idea of one Londo Mollari and The Corrupt Teacher. In June of 2008 Londo Mollari founded the channel which was to become the CnG bloc government channel in which many lulz were had, subsequently inviting many others in. Everyone involved really liked the idea. We ran with it. Deal with it. TMYK

Some comments: Yes, Athens was interested in this possibility and we began building this relationship quite some time ago. Certainly this process began while I was still leading Athens. I originally started advancing this idea because of two very simple ideas. One was that NPO had paid penance for past sins and deserved to rejoin the ranks of the powerful by virtue of their large and strong community and high activity. I felt that this would be good for the world. The other of course is the same reason anyone signs any treaty, and that is to gain both security and the ability to project power. From the early skype conversations years ago to the present day, I can honestly say that this treaty has probably been the longest in the making of any in CN. And of course the main obstacle to this was not our hatred or distrust or inability to forgive NPO for past actions, but the concerns of all of the rest of our allies. I feel confident in saying that had Athens preexisting allies been ok with our signing with NPO, it would have probably happened. But the world had unfinished business with them after Karma I suppose, so this is how things played out instead. The remarks that TLR is Athens 2.0 are highly amusing. TLR has a completely different dynamic and is a completely different alliance than Athens. Roquentin, your personal attack against Archon has no place in public discourse. I will be kinder than most of the others here and refrain from saying that ANY of what you say has no place in public discourse, but that kind of sniping is not cool.

Looking forward to the blazing saddles war

[quote name='Emperor Marx' timestamp='1330363677' post='2929324'] I care. I care deeply. [/quote] Then the world may yet be saved. Hi Marx.

[quote name='r00tn00b' timestamp='1330361690' post='2929316'] this would be hurtful and mean, if we actually cared. [/quote] Nobody cares. That's the whole problem.

Man the old GOONS would be so impressed by the titanic moves and mighty deeds of these new GOONS.

[quote name='r00tn00b' timestamp='1330327732' post='2929149'] you realize even thought we have 200 nations we can on put 3x(x) on your nations? right? did that escape you? [/quote] But you haven't. Mongols are 22 nations with 66 defensive war slots. You are 218 nations. You have put 41 offensive wars on them... and they have put 16 offensive wars on you.

The stars are aligning once more...

The phrase 'jumped the shark' comes to mind. My two cents, Roquentin: You cannot bring back what has gone, and more importantly... you cannot turn back the clock. Is this really how you want to be investing your precious time now?

Kid, I think you have what it takes to make it here.

Glad to see that the battered wife finally picked up the phone and called. It's a good world out there. Best of luck moving forward. [IMG]http://www.thehotline.org/wp-content/themes/ndvh-revision-tm/images/phone_background.png[/IMG]

One of the few treaties you'll see me comment on these days. Good job guys.

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1329981934' post='2926362'] You already know what was happening to Umbrella after WoTC, so it's BS. I was the x factor. Holy lol Londo: NPO was going to have to enter. Brehon admitted it was a smart move. [/quote] TOP was going to have to enter in Bipolar too. But things didn't have to go down the way they did. The way things actually went down in that war has helped shape subsequent politics up to this very day. I did not like the way DH-NPO was handled. That is all. And yes Roq, despite your current implosion, you were one of the key players during Karma.

This is interesting, and I will be interested to see how this actually pans out. Military force and government orders are typically wholly ineffective at influencing financial markets on other worlds, so it will be interesting to see if it is effective here.

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1329980474' post='2926350'] The fact that Umbrella and MK born from alliances were constantly rolled and later they succeeded just proves that the people who formed said alliances were stubborn enough to wait alliances like TOP, MHA, GRE, FOK!, Sparta and others turn their backs to NPO to finally have their pay back, in other words the main factor that made they succeeded is that they waited long enough until the NPO enablers abandoned NPO. If Continuum alliances had stayed together and supported NPO atrocities MK would be still being rolled until today, the same argument is valid for the current era: until DH enablers(C&G, PF, PB) stop to support MK/Umbrella/GOONS atrocities they don't need to worry about the opposition. [/quote] It wasn't waiting. Had we not been making active political moves the entire time (quietly of course) Karma would have never happened. Remove any of the key Karma players and the sides and the result of the war change. I haven't seen too many DH atrocities. I didn't agree with the DH-NPO war in the slightest but Roq and Archon wanted to get their licks in on NPO so they did. Other than that, what has DH *done*? They aren't committing "atrocities". If they were then we might have some real politics going on in the background where everyone was trying to figure out how to survive and/or take them down.

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1329964269' post='2926058'] Yes, and he's been repeating it over and over and over while he was in power and after he was kicked out of the halls of power--that is to say, while he had the ability to enact his grand vision he settled on the same tip-toeing that he's railing against, and now that he can't he's all the more annoying.[/quote] Dear Schattenmann - I was never kicked out of the halls of power. Everything I renounced, I renounced of my own accord. I stepped down from leading Athens after winning a war against TOP. I left Athens entirely and thus most of my political connections after making sure that Athens won yet another war... or six or seven as the case may be. No one kicked me out of anywhere. [quote]Londo's idea of excitement does not flush with Londo's rhetoric of excitement, and for that, he is cordially invited to can it. And anyone else who had a hand in "making things exciting" during the exemplary display of unimaginativity and stagnation that was the post-Karma era and its crowning achievement of 4 blocs all allied to each other can also can it.[/quote] I am only one guy. And I [u]was[/u] responsible for a lot of the action then. I seem to remember attacking a lot of people and being involved in a lot of political upscuts. I'm not sure what else you can really expect of me. I did practice what I preached as much as possible, to the extent of agitating enemies and (sometimes) allies alike. :-p [quote]As for Londo's go-to excuse for all of that (the moralists did it!), boy-howdy do I wish I had the kind of power that [i]that [/i]excuse implies. And then you guys woulda seen a [i]real [/i]party.[/quote] As strong as Athens got back in the day, we always were kept in check to a large extent by moralist alliances. NpO was one, but TOP was another (and they were far stronger). Yes, TOP were anti-raiding moralists back then. Perhaps they still are, who knows? Karma also somehow managed to cement the idea in place that aggression is always bad. While I will claim having played an important role in Karma, it was certainly not all my baby.

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1329964323' post='2926062'] Londo thinks rolling the "incompetent" will somehow make them angry enough to get revenge even though all of their stats will be depleted by then. [/quote] LUE rolled. LUE rolled. LUE dies. MK is born. Genmay rolled. Genmay dies. Umbrella is born. Freshly merged Athens rolled. Much stronger Athens arises in its place. I think that rolling people in general and burning tons of political capital doing it makes it harder and harder to stay on top. The stats argument is bunk, Umbrella's nations didn't even exist when the world was in full swing and now Umbrella is the most powerful alliance. Stats can be built. And moreover, you don't have to have many stats at all to help change the world - if you look at the makeup of Karma a lot of it was co-opted hegemony alliances.