Londo Mollari

[quote name='Chaoshawk' timestamp='1323060452' post='2863114'] I see your flag is still torn. [/quote] [quote name='supercoolyellow' timestamp='1323061173' post='2863223'] Go get 'em boys. [/quote] YOU'RE ON OUR SIDE TOO? WHO'S IN CHARGE OF THE SIDES???? WHY ARE THEY SO SCREWED UP!?!?!?! I thought I could count on you guys to prevent things like this from happening!!!!

May both these alliances unite in the flames. Let the weak be consumed and the strong be tempered in the fires of war.

Your balls are dropping, son. Your ability to make good announcements is severely lacking however. I recommend you go bother your allies next time to show you how to do it. Grub could probably help you write a pretty good announcement. If you're going to be allied to the Great Blue !@#$pile you might as well benefit from the acumen that they have.

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1322989734' post='2862052'] You are an incompetent fool. SoL implied Fark and FAN gained tactical advantage from attacking NPO and I asked how. Their dislike of NPO is irrelevant to my question. Stop trying to play the victim. NPO is not disliked anymore. In fact, it is cool to like NPO at the moment. You are currently in the process of sucking up to the dominant power structures and it is succeeding to the extent that your age-old enemies in C&G and MK may even go to war for you. [/quote] Yeah NPO really sucked up to CnG and MK. NPO are good people these days. You're just butthurt because you couldn't cut it as a Pacifican under Cortath.

[quote name='eyriq' timestamp='1322840244' post='2859385'] Whoa Nelly! You are really driving this pro-hegemony narrative hard. You want to create a multilateral superstructure that can pick off opposition with ease, you would prefer that wars against the old-heg continued, and yet in another thread you mentioned the hardship of our age being wars against political pariahs? If you want something, at least want it for the right reasons. Multilateral organizations are for collective security and pursuit of interests, if you build one that contains 1/4 of all available NS, you are [i]only[/i] going to get wars against political pariahs, because most of the other multilateral orgs will tie themselves bilaterally to your member orgs, leaving only those pariahs that are isolated to be targeted. Fun times? MK has it right if not a bit too extreme; multilateral orgs should be small and diverse. They seem to prefer there only existing alliances, while what have is something in between with several different blocs, ranging from tier one blocs like the SF/XX cluster and the PB/DH cluster, to your tier two Mj/DR cluster and C&G, to your tier three PF, and then others further down the list. This much diffusion in NS has led to uncertainty but not really that much as we've been enjoying the "Winter is Coming" theme and seen that defining relations. Honestly, like I said in the other thread this current political state is rather new and unique, lets see how it play out before jumping on an old and tired model. Eh? [/quote] The uncertainty just means that people will be much much less likely to go to war. There is little uncertain about the outcome of any war. I could see this day and this specific coming when I stepped down as leader of Athens well over a year ago. There was nothing interesting in politics for me because I could already see all the future outcomes for years, and that's part of why I stopped being an alliance leader. However, like most rank and file members (but unlike most political players) I greatly enjoy crushing my enemies and putting their heads on pikes, to the weeping and lamentations of their women. I know how both scenarios would play out, I would simply enjoy a scenario far more where I am crushing people I dislike whenever I feel like it. [quote name='rsoxbronco1' timestamp='1322856041' post='2859530'] It really is showing a total lack of history to waste any time trying to criticize Sparta's recent history. Sparta came in for C&G and hit TOP, playing a role that ANYONE in C&G gov/milcom will tell you was absolutely crucial for our victory. Then last winter Sparta more or less took on AZTEC. There are some rather well known alliances that have shirked fighting on the front lines in the last couple wars, but Sparta is not one of them. [/quote] o/ Sparta. Spot on. Very solid fighters and the very best of allies. [quote name='Enamel32' timestamp='1322874942' post='2859716'] Hey, people defending sparta's honor that have absolutely no obligation to. I can dig that. [/quote] It's been fashionable to pick on Sparta for a long time, and I am not quite sure why. They are not pound for pound the best fighting alliance in the world, but I would call them above average, and they are big and they are very loyal and have a good sense of fun. They are some of my favorite people on Bob, and I wish they would come on IRC more often. I talk in their channel often still.

[quote name='Krack' timestamp='1322993367' post='2862092'] I noticed this paragraph and was interested to know if you could expound on your comments; particularly those I bolded. As someone familiar with SuperFriends at the time, you describe a bloc I don't recognize. I'm interested in knowing why you feel the way you do. I'm not going to lie, I find that last bit a tad offensive in light of the fact that FARK and Ragnarok (along with MK) did much of the heavy lifting in Karma. [/quote] You'd have to ask someone who was in MK's high gov at the time about the Ragnarok and MA cancellations on MK right before the noCB war. Archon, AirMe, or Trace. AirMe is probably the most accessible of those three. I was just a bystander, but what it boiled down to is that SF dropped treaties with MK to avoid getting caught by the NPO's wrath against MK. Having thought about it much after the fact, this doesn't really bother me, and it did not bother me after Karma, as you can perhaps note by the MDoAPs I signed with SF and my support for closer CnG-SF relations. The reason it did not bother me, was because SF used their saved NS to *do* the heavy lifting in Karma, after they ducked out on MK once. GRE was somewhat close to MDoAP with MK pre-noCB as well, and they did essentially the same thing. I really appreciate GRE for the help they gave in Karma, both to me personally in my work and against IRON. Fark did great work in Karma, and I think RoK did even better. RoK declared the absolute most wars against NPO (by number) of any Karma alliance, and they kept it up for the longest length of time. RoK I would say did the most, then VE, and everyone else on NPO was a good bit behind. Actually, I love RoK to death. I went to war as leader of Athens at RoK's side at least 3 or 4 times, and they were always solid battle buddies. When I needed my ass bailed out when NEW jumped on Athens in addition to TOP, IRON, and the others, iClean and Corp along with RoK were there to give me backup when all of my other allies were either unable or unwilling to help. My respect for RoK's past actions in regard to me and mine is of the highest degree. However, Fark and RoK are not the only alliances that were in Superfriends, and indeed, neither is in Superfriends now. I was referring to more recent wars (like this last one against NPO) and different SF alliances. Of course, truth be told, they were saving their strength then because they foresaw this day as inevitable, and in some ways it became a self-fulfilling prophecy because it pissed a lot of people off. However, as I said before, I like pretty much all SF alliances and I consider past actions to be water under the bridge. I am still sad that SG never really properly developed as a world-controlling organization. It would have been a blast.

I would like to nominate the [b]State of Unified Nations[/b] for this prestigious award. While SUN is technically a [i]rebellious province[/i] (SUN + Deck of Cards ----> Fly ----> merges into Athens) of Best Greece , whose members are currently [s]hiding[/s] on vacation in various alliances, mostly TLR and Olympus, they seem to have quietly reformed, closed in on a million NS without anyone really knowing about it, and being responsible for this absolute gem: [quote]SUN's first foreign affairs crisis happened during May of 2011. A member of SUN by the name of El_barto grew frustrated with a seeming lack of organization on the SUN forums. El_barto raged at multiple government members over irc, culminating in him kicking a senior government member out of the channel. For his actions, SUN sentenced him to PZI. War was declared, and el_barto was anarchied. Two days after the incident, the alliance of Exodus accepted El_barto's application. Exodus' leadership demanded that reps be paid for the damages done prior to El_barto's acceptance. The leadership of SUN refused to pay what they perceived as "laughable terms." However, once Exodus' allies threatened to join in the war, there was only one reasonable choice for SUN to make. 24 million in reps was paid to various Exodus nations.[/quote] This demonstrates SUN's greatness on 2 important levels. The first is that they sentenced a member to PZI in the first place for something he said on IRC. The second is that they then allowed an alliance to challenge their PZI sentence, back them off of it, and THEN force them to pay reps. SUN is thus not only incompetent at decisionmaking, but also ineffectual at executing the decisions they do make. They also appear to be as yellow as the sphere on which they reside. As such, I find that they have all of the most important traits vital to success on Planet Bob in 2011, and wholeheartedly recommend them without reservation for the award [u]Alliance of the Year 2011[/u].

[quote name='partymaster' timestamp='1322982008' post='2861928'] The wiki is outdated, as is his bio. He is currently in neither position. [/quote] But he WAS in the position... with absolutely 0 war experience.... 0 attacking casualties... probabably 0 defending before TOP hit him too... That's inexcusable.

[quote name='Schad' timestamp='1322981690' post='2861922'] If their wiki is to believed, you're correct...because he's listed there as their full Minister of War. [/quote] The Minister of War in an alliance named after the Greek God of War has no attacking casualties? See people, this is why we need to clean up this place.

[quote name='Yevgeni Luchenkov' timestamp='1322978571' post='2861814'] TSO was in peace mode for strategic reasons after they deployed on Polaris. We expected stronger counter-attacks from Polaris' allies. All we got was a lousy ARES president spying on TSO two days before they decided to finally DoW. [/quote] Yeah but you didn't even hit him. :*( Looks like inactivity has hit us all pretty hard. Goodluck TOP, o/

http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=124913 120k NS... alliance leader... no wars on him. No wars *from* him either.... lol and TSO is almost entirely in peacemode... what?

[quote name='Londo Mollari' timestamp='1322977247' post='2861697'] Hm. ARES hits TSO. TOP hits ARES. GOD/CSN hit TOP? MK hits GOD? Stay tuned. [/quote] Well step 1 came true already. Steps 2 and 3 to follow?

Hm. ARES hits TSO. TOP hits ARES. GOD/CSN hit TOP? MK hits GOD? Stay tuned.

It's been brought.

Join with warriors who love to spill blood. If an alliance's top nation doesn't have at least 7 million casualties don't even consider them. by the way Olympus qualifies *cough*

Mmm.. you seem to be pursuing the same kind of strategy, really desparately reaching out for friends, and making a special effort to highlight the continuity and tradition of your alliance as if to make an argument that you're worth not being ground up like dog meat and thrown on the trash heap like a lot of people apparently want to do. I don't think you're all that bad RIA. Hope things work out for the best.

I've never seen you this afraid. Hope things work out ok for all parties. They will do what they will do.

[quote name='Leet Guy' timestamp='1322803682' post='2859021'] Screw the war, roll Londo imo [/quote] Love you too sweetheart. [img]http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp230/dobber51/bbill.jpg[/img] I'd roll me too :silenceofthelambs:

Hey it's an almost Athens splinter. Good luck to Fireblade and some others in Menotah. Hell, good luck to the whole alliance. o/ DE o/ Athens o/ Menotah THANK YOU FOR ESCALATING.

[quote name='flak attack' timestamp='1322804999' post='2859053'] Nothing I have ever experienced in this world was as fun as the buildup for and fight against TOP, IRON and friends. As this point I'm here because I got my fix once and now I'm hooked in a vain hope that someone else might decide to actually put up some effort into getting a competition to rival us like they did. Hell, we're even handicapping ourselves at times to give them a shot. Sure, we could have worked to build a super bloc consisting of SF, XX, PB, DH and CnG, but that would just be boring. [/quote] I guess that's true, but I think a lot of people were a lot more into the one war a month thing, and most of those people have quit playing cause the world got too boring for them. I guess you can't make everyone happy. And ultimately I don't think that the huge superbloc thing would be any more boring than what we've got now... it certainly wasn't a boring situation for the last one, which eventually broke up and got its founders ravaged more severely than anyone ever was before. They had to stay on their toes all the time as top dogs for sure. AND they got the monthly wars.

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1322804370' post='2859036'] That one in particular we all mostly put on Rok though, not RIA. [/quote] [quote name='Bob Ilyani' timestamp='1322804444' post='2859038'] That's not why we chose to come to Polar's aid at all. It's semantics though. And yeah, we did mess up the whole coalition plan. Blame our dysfunctional (and thankfully since revamped) government. [/quote] [quote name='Emperor Whimsical' timestamp='1322804554' post='2859042'] Blame Tautology. [/quote] All reasonable enough points to the situation. I do think I see it from both sides, which is like I said why I tend to be a little more understanding. [quote name='Derwood1' timestamp='1322804691' post='2859045'] IIRC RIA $%&@ed up most of the coalitions plans along with the rest of SF during the last biggie. As far as the current war goes; I never would have thought UPN would be more standup then RIA. I guess FARK will only let you zip your pants on the side....pretty sad. O/ UPN you have proved to be good allies, RIA needs to take note. [/quote] And yes, at some point SF either got paranoid or figured that they were next and started screwing stuff up in a way that looked like it was on purpose. Like I said, lots of high level butthurt. And one way or the other, it became a self-fulfilling prophecy. Had I been super active still at the time, I would have at some point tried to smooth things over and to get everyone to not kill each other. I was really a fan of the whole SG thing, and as someone pointed out in another thread, sort of one of the people who arranged that marriage in teh first place. . I guess in the end I hope that you people who are still really politically active are enjoying this political dynamic and the way the world works now. I think the world would have been (and maybe be) a lot more fun if another ex-Heg or other alliance was "next" on the list every month, and there were undercurrents of dissension that might lead to another Karma if we at the top didn't keep an eye out and keep them snuffed out without getting too paranoid about each other.... I think that would be a lot less boring than what goes on now. But who knows. We all made our choice, and that isn't what we decided to do. So be it.

[quote name='flak attack' timestamp='1322804290' post='2859034'] I disagree. Fighting the shattered remnants of the ex-Heg alliances over and over again isn't interesting. As far as we can tell, that's what Tromp wants to do. Like it or not, if this world was going to stay interesting, SG had to go. MK, on the other hand, has repeatedly taken risks to make sure things stayed interesting around these parts. We brought TOP back into the fold instead of forcing them to stay isolated at the periphery, putting a heavy split into our power base. We cancelled all our treaties and only resigned a portion of them because we realized we were strangling the world. We risked all our political capital when we launched a direct attack on NPO because we weren't going to just sit around with our thumbs up our asses while half the world sat in a stalemate. Since then, we're worked to bring them back out of their isolation, even at the risk of isolating a portion of our power base. Tromp, meanwhile, has fought to keep SG, a two year old power structure, in a dominant position as long as he could. [/quote] Personally, I would have been in favor of rolling a d20 every month and going after a new one on the !@#$list until they were all paste. Some would regrow over time, perhaps some of us might occasionally fall out of favor and get rolled ourselves. That was how NPO used to run things, and not all of what they did was bad. If we hadn't been rolled at that point as a group, we could have always split up over the differences we had at that point and gone at each other then. I think that would have been pretty entertaining to the majority of the world, certainly more entertaining than what actually happened. I view SG as a failed power structure, because we were never able to use our power to actually project power and fear against our enemies, mostly because TOP and allies were so strong compared to us. In the end it just ended up being a long long long waiting game, and to me even an uneven military action is a lot more interesting and entertaining than a year long game of cat and mouse. I understand what you are saying, but I would have preferred if we had done things in a lot of different ways compared to what was done, and think it would have turned out a lot better. But, that's just me.

[quote name='Joe Stupid' timestamp='1322803441' post='2859014'] For everyone calling RIA cowards, you're clearly retarded. There are many reasons for people to single out and hate SF, but that's just because you most likely jumped on the bandwagon. RIA is an alliance, about 8 months ago who attacked both sides of a war to help us out in Rok when we came in for Polar. I can never call them a coward because they sacrificed so we could make our stand. Every other one of our 22 treaties said no. In fact, Sparta lied to all of our gov when confronted about it. Well that was Hyperion, and he was a coward. I hold no love for most of SF, i'll admit that, but if people want them so bad go and hit them. But don't call them cowards because you're too afraid to start your own war. RIA is some of the best allies you can have and I'll never forget what they did for Rok, but if you can sit here and think that not entering this war is RIA's decision alone, you're crazy. [/quote] Yep. RIA was courageous enough to threaten along with the rest of SF to sabotage the rest of the coalition's efforts unless certain backroom terms for their and RoK's engagement were agreed to, for an alliance that really ultimately allowed the war to start in the first place by first giving VE the go ahead to hit Polar after VE asked, and then waffling and changing their mind when they saw it would permanently cripple them because a !@#$ ton of their active membership would leave if they didn't honor the polar treaty. I mean, I understood what happened pretty well and didn't mind it so much, but a lot of the other people in the know aren't so understanding or forgiving.

[quote name='Vladimir Stukov II' timestamp='1322790533' post='2858768'] You can always make up for it by imposing harsher terms on the non-deserters. I can only hope that this war marks the return of [i]crippling[/i] reps. [/quote] [quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1322790806' post='2858776'] Shouldn't have offered any at all, in my opinion. [/quote] [quote name='Vandal' timestamp='1322793766' post='2858831'] This is TSO's unofficial stance. There are no surrender terms...... Just die. [/quote] [quote name='Vanilla Napalm' timestamp='1322798525' post='2858906'] I don't like this - providing NpO nations with individual surrender terms is a dangerous slippery slope that could result in NpO itself eventually being allowed alliance surrender terms. Please consider the repercussions of your actions. [/quote] [quote name='porksaber' timestamp='1322798569' post='2858908'] Terms like these are the Nerf Sword of Damocles. This new trend of "reparations light" are damaging to any real progress on planet Bob. I'm ashamed, disgusted, disturbed, and quite frankly, appalled that anyone could conceive of letting Polaris members off the hook so easily. [/quote] [quote name='Mr Damsky' timestamp='1322801057' post='2858960'] Please just disband them (Polar). [/quote] No no no guys you have it all wrong. Take super harsh reps from Polar, and then FAN them without warning right before terms are up. They sure as hell deserve it a lot more than FAN ever did.

[quote name='Tromp' timestamp='1322779094' post='2858532'] All I was saying is that I reject the idea that coalition warfare is the only sort of warfare possible in CN, especially with the political alignments of various (groups of) alliances these days. In cases like this, I believe independent action and/or neutrality becomes a real option. And in itself, that might also create more exciting political dynamics, as coalitions won't form easily and to the size they used to be in the past, nor will the conclusion of a war be determined after three days or so (or even before the war has started).[/quote] That won't work when one party hides in peacemode, but it's a good thought. [quote]What I'm having more trouble with, personally speaking, is how some people who profited most from Grub's action, have turned their backs on others out of sheer opportunism. Some may have had additional reasons, but my point is that the change of various relationships put us in a difficult spot. The goal of it all was clear, and now that this war kicked off people jumped at the opportunity to carry out their own agendas, which would always come at the cost of some of our allies, or FOK itself. That kind of behaviour shouldn't be encouraged, let alone be rewarded. [/quote] No one at all profited from Grub's action. Grub was supposed to be solidly with us against TOP on the front lines, when it came down to it. This was certainly the case in the TPF war. He and NpO were ready to go in at our word. Then he did something funny in the month or so after that. He decided to open up a private dialogue with TOP in a very small IRC channel. Then he decided to essentially attack some of my closest allies, which caused an ENORMOUS !@#$fest in CnG and damaged a lot of relationships. Then he betrayed TOP. TOP wouldn't have even gone after us if not for Grub. He stabbed us all in the back. $%&@ Polar. They need to be burned to ashes and the ashes need to be buried at sea in that !@#$pile they call the blue team. As far as Superfriends goes, I dunno. They did dump MK prior to noCB in a really really !@#$%* way, but that let CnG have a chance to shine and build political support, and allowed SF's NS to remain mostly intact for Karma 6 months later, so it's hard to judge them overly much for that. CSN did some retarded stuff with the DT reps which I still to this day don't understand, but everyone $%&@s up from time to time. Xiph has tried to disband alliances that didn't really deserve it but oh well. SF also have a bit of a habit of going after easy targets and it has caused some high level butthurt, but it in no way compares to the kind of !@#$ Polar has pulled on nearly everyone at some point in their existence. I would much much much prefer to be working WITH SF to round up and roll all of the !@#$%* blue team alliances than to be rolling them if I were still really firmly in that political sphere. Sadly, this is not what we see happening. [quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1322792612' post='2858817'] Tromp is free to hate me as he wishes, but at his core he and I are the largely same.[/quote] I wouldn't agree with this at all. I think you are way more realpolitik than he is, and you want to win and achieve absolute political dominance at all costs, and I think he is a lot more interested in creating an interesting world. And I wish both of you luck. The world needs struggle. With that said, IMO, you would do a lot better to ally Xiph and integrate him and SF into your political sphere than to try to roll him. Letting the whole PB thing break up Supergrievances, and going to Doomhouse IMO was a huge step backwards in terms of forming a political entity that could actually control anything. An outright merger of PB, SF, and CnG back in the day (probably with some individual alliance mergers being pushed along as part of it, and bringing in people like Sparta and eventually NPO) would have created a kick ass superbloc that would probably still be around beating on people today. It would have been nice to ally TOP too before the whole BiPolar thing, but my attempts to build a relationship there mostly went nowhere. It's foolish for the most competent people to strike at the other most competent people for no real reason other than to FIGHT, because it wears down the vital strength of both - especially in the modern era of game mechanics. We could have spent a Looooooong time properly mopping up ex-Heg had the right political moves been made, but alas, they were not. And then perhaps the shattered remains of ex-Heg would have come together to form a competent alliance, much like what happened with ex-Aegis and UjP remnants forming MK. It's hard to say.