Londo Mollari

What would be even better would be if all the active players who like war gathered onto one AA and we spent our days hunting down infrahuggers, all the way from the top on down.

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1316718196' post='2806081'] This isn't the best idea. So basically you are creating some TE version in SE because you don't want to play the game? [/quote] Show me one person currently in alliance leadership who DOES want to play the game. I see nothing but cowards. I like this idea, it shows creativity. We had something called 10.10.10 a year back that was a blast, this is similar to that. Suggestion: Create Alliance A and Alliance B as protectorates of FEAR.

It pleases me to see the Athens diaspora continuing to play a prominent role in world politics.

I hope you sign with FAN soon. And lots of other people. Then maybe we can blow this popsicle stand to pieces.

[quote name='Drai' timestamp='1321153434' post='2843978'] If you disband right now you would be well-known as one of the shortest-lived alliances. [/quote] Sometimes, five minutes is all you need.

[quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1321020180' post='2843195'] Any topic that allows people like Londo to pretend they are important CN scholars only to come out looking like bumbling idiots is a good thread. I look forward to what the NG/MK MADP thread brings us. [/quote] Looks like you missed the point too.

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1320974783' post='2842944'] Well that's a lot of very interesting history Londo but that's not really what's at play here. [/quote] [quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1320982476' post='2843049'] Londo man, looks like you didn't get the memo. Congrats to both parties on the upgrade. [/quote] That's what you guys say but I bet CNtel will soon say otherwise!

[quote name='kevin32891' timestamp='1320957982' post='2842844'] VE why not just let MK join PB? [/quote] "During the time after the Third Great War, \m/ rose to power and aligned itself firmly with GOONS, VE was attacked by WUT over team issues with GOONS, and NoR found itself with more white supremacist issues and disbanded. FAN was later attacked by WUT over alleged collaboration with NAAC during the Third Great War, an attack on NoR and alleged scheming against NPO. The FAN war caused some dissidence but very little. The Phoenix Federation, Genmay and MCXA joined during this time. GOONS, \m/, Genmay, TPF and Mushroom Kingdom formed a bloc, The Unjust Path, leading to a post commenting [u][b]"Wouldn't it be easier to add MK to WUT?"[/b][/u], to which a GOON leader replied "Not at all. Not even a little bit." The bloc caused some suspicion in the general CN public. Serious schisms began to surface when GOONS and the Unjust Path supported Moo-Cows in his counter-coup of Ivan Moldavi during the Moldavi Rebellion. NpO and GGA would leave over this incident. NPO did not leave but it was evident that the tension between NpO and GOONS was real and serious. The Unjust Path declared war on the Legion, independently of the Initiative. After this event, several NpO leaders were convinced that GOONS and \m/ were dangerous when members of the Unjust Path were banned for attacking mods, some in the Orders themselves. The NpO put together a massive web around itself, with at least a couple dozen protectorates and a bloc all to itself, BLEU. The NpO and GGA were firmly allied with one another, while GOONS, \m/, TPF, and Genmay were allied with one another. TOP was neutral, MDC was inactive, and the NPO was leaning towards NpO, as was MCXA, although the latter had strong ties with \m/. When Genmay found itself in a spate with BoTS, the war escalated from a BoTS-Genmay conflict, to a NpO-Genmay conflict, to an all-out BLEU-UJP war, The Unjust War."

Santa is not a Secret. When Santa comes, he will come with Guns, Bombs, and Chaos. Death and Despair will travel in his wake. The Sky shall be torn asunder with Fire and the Earth Shaken and Rent and Broken. The Mountains shall be made Low and the Plains shall Rise, and All the Nations of the Earth shall Tremble with Night Terrors and Give In to the Everlasting Scream that shall Rip Forth from a Trillion Throats without ever ceasing. These are the Gifts that Santa brings this Season to an Ungrateful World.

[quote name='suryanto tan' timestamp='1320679064' post='2841093']People have to start playing their own game, instead of following their alliance leaders who most of the time are the leaders with (excuse the language) tiny ball and submissive personality. [/quote] THIS IS A GEM!!!!! SO TRUE +1 WOULD READ AGAIN. Or maybe more leaders need to show more brass. I'm not up to speed on the particulars of the situation, but I consider being attacked by NEW an honor - I think they only really attack the people they like or respect on some level. I would be thinking very hard about how to interpret this if I were NG. Anyway, have fun all, especially friends/former allies from Poison Clan.

Rush Sykes will be so sad!!!!!

[quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1320624387' post='2840705'] So you equate a threat of an aggressive smacking around of people that people dont like (NSO and Legion), as worse than an actual smacking around of people you dont like. Makes sense to me. As for being cheered for something on the OWF, if that is your idea of what makes something popular and right, you have a short memory. Most of old NPOs reasonless smack downs on others, we roundly hailed and portrayed as great and honorable by far more of the OWF than opposed them. That is literally the worst measure of right or wrong, good or bad, you can put forward. [/quote] Because clearly, my fanciful whims cause just as much fear as the combined might of the Continuum in the OWF population, and they adjust their posts accordingly.

[quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1320622328' post='2840676'] WORDS [/quote] I seem to recall the OWF mostly cheering when Thriller attacked AcTi. If you don't see the difference between an aggressive smacking around of people you dislike (and then often making up with them later) and a widespread pattern of convoluted thread elimination like what NPO practiced, then you are being rather insensitive to even the most obvious of distinctions in my opinion. However, having known you for a long time, I am sure that what I perceive as deliberate intransigence for political reasons is in fact a genuine misunderstanding on your part.

Oh hey, I remember ISSF. Peace out bro, good luck in RL.

Congrats to the Legion on managing a draw... Versus NSO, the Mushroom Kingdom, and the Viridian Entente. :v EDIT: And congrats to NSO for being man enough not to let others intervene on their behalf. They deserve respect for that too.

So, I see that a number of people have essentially been claiming that I am not genuine in my arguments and thus they should not be considered as valid. I offer two responses to this: The first is that this is [i]argumentum ad hominem[/i], a logical fallacy. My argument and the points I have made are true or false on their own merits, and have nothing to do with me as a nation ruler. The second is that this is absolutely not what I would be doing if I were in a commanding political position right now. I believe in a sense of fair play and always have. I have also always believed in a very healthy dose of aggression. I have often preached that wars should be shorter and more frequent, to keep ordinary nation rulers more engaged in world affairs. I have ALWAYS been about providing for the needs of ordinary rulers, and it often did put me at odds with political colleagues. Yes, I did advocate that CnG attack NPO very shortly before MK left CnG. What Rush has not said is that I advocated that we make it short and sweet... anywhere from raid length to maybe a week... possibly 2 depending on how things went. The point of it was to change the tone of war, change what it meant. The CnG ideology was always $%&@ the police and rub your sweaty balls in the other guy's face. That was what I wanted war to be about, NOT about threat elimination or attempts to achieve political dominance. In my view, the way to achieve political dominance was to lead by example and have people follow you out of respect, not out of fear. NPO ruled the world by fear. I wanted to achieve dominance through respect. I wanted to change the way that people here saw war. And I was not alone in my feelings - government from at least two other CnG alliances posted in support of my idea in that thread. When MK actually did attack NPO, their objective was not to rub their balls in their face and show their dominance, but to eliminate NPO as a threat for a long long time and possibly forever. There is a far cry between the two. I wanted to build a world after Karma where there was lots of aggression but threat-eliminator behavior ala old-skool Pacificanism was not tolerated. Even if we FAILED in the attempt, I considered it better than becoming threat-eliminators like what we had worked so hard to beat. But by that point MK was sold out on the idea of "playing to win", and "winning at any cost". What does winning mean? Do you win if you destroy every other alliance and make every other nation disappear from the world?!? That is quite literally the logical desired outcome of "winning" to a realpolitik alliance. It is what winning means to them... staying on top of the world by constantly eliminating any threat that arises. It's a cold and bleak vision of the world compared to mine. To me, winning was rolling out, busting some heads, going home, and having some beers, kicking up our feet and beating our chests and talking about how hard and badass we were. But any group of people who gathered some balls and some guns could go out and try to do the same thing. They could try to win the respect of the whole world by activity and coordination and martial prowress. By decisively answering insults with an upraised fist, and by being quick to take insult! The victory would be decided by activity and how hard we fought, and how much style we showed in doing it, not just in purely cold and calculating realpolitik decisions. So we come to this situation, and we see that MK (and VE) are not just attacking someone they don't like to attempt to show dominance. They are planning to wipe the floor with Legion, who has just won their first military victory pretty much ever and might have what it takes to become a competent and upstanding alliance worthy of some respect, and why? Because Legion is a "political enemy", and is tied to more enemies. You see, divide and conquer is the oldest strategy in the book. They get Legion now (and maybe Polar and some others who defend polar), and then once the potential base of support for Superfriends/XX is weakened, then Superfriends/XX gets taken out too. VE with them, if VE decides to stick with GOD. That's what's funny about this to me. This is the way that standard, cookie-cutter realpolitik play works. The people that are calling me a madman for my past actions either want a world where this sort of thing is the norm like it was under NPO, or a world with barely any aggression or action at all - because someone has to start !@#$ for there to be anything going on. I'm not a madman and I never was. I was a leader who did his best to shape the world as I saw fit, and while I succeeded in helping to remove realpolitik play for a time, my alternate view of how war and conflict should be and how the community should operate was never widely adopted. It would have been great for the general membership of every alliance, but maybe not quite as interesting for the political players. So the same kind of people that used to run NPO and the other realpolitik alliances have made their way to MK, the elements in MK that wanted realpolitik play that were there from the beginning have risen to the top, and the old CnG worldview is almost completely gone from practice. But yet, the idea remains. And ideas are bulletproof.

[quote name='Anson' timestamp='1320554174' post='2840049'] I look forward to the fast approaching day where Nordreich drops us as their protectorate and signs us instead as an Mutual Defense ally. [/quote] Well done.... Well done. You sound a little more competent than TGE looks. Work on your IA and you may even be worth having as a Mutual Defense ally. TGE has a pretty sad history, maybe you can change that Anson. Also, this was the exact same policy I pursued against people who attacked Athens... except mostly they got ZIed. I don't think we ever announced it though. It doesn't really make you look that tough when you talk about that kinda stuff here. o/

[quote name='AirMe' timestamp='1320514548' post='2839692'] Well stated. Well stated indeed. [/quote] You know I sure as hell remember MK being respected when it was Archon, Trace, you, and SW as the 4 big people in gov. I remember respect, and a whole lot of ass kickings that we handed out. You were the finest survivors of Aegis all joined together in common purpose... LUE... LoSS...NAAC... and some rebels from the NPO. It was a good time man. I miss #thefreeworld back then. I think if we could go back there and see the future we would all be talking about this fine gentlemanry in no uncertain terms! :V [quote name='Owned-You' timestamp='1320516750' post='2839708'] I think your assertion that we are undertaking this action to chase the spectre of NPO's fallen might is a baseless accusation...though I understand it's easy to cast us in that light given we're at the center of all evil in CN. Or so you'll be lead to believe if you skim the OWF enough! I think your simply reading too far into this alongside the majority of posters in this topic. It's been stated earlier that VE wanted us to facilitate this action alongside them in order to bring this conflict to a swift end and we obliged them. While I understand that most people like to view things in black and white terms; our actions are neither for the sake of evil or good. We are simply obliging a request...not trying to become some nefarious villain. [/quote] Owned-You you have gone from alliance to alliance looking to play politics. You went from running NV to being an NSO member to being in MK and who knows how much else I've forgotten. You're like a lot of people in MK right now... like a lot of people that joined NPO before their downfall too. You like to be in the politically influential alliances, at the center of the action. You like to play realpolitik. I don't blame you for what you do, but there's no way in hell I believe what you're saying, cause I know way too much about how politics works here. [quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1320517245' post='2839714'] Well put, but MK as an alliance has never been particularly 'special'. My personal experiences aside, they are all too flawed in some pretty petty ways in fact. At best MK has produced some special [i]individuals[/i], Archon in particular.[/quote] I disagree. The alliance itself and all of its membership was special. Archon's strong guiding hand *certainly* played a large role in that, but yet Archon was not MK. I don't just miss talking to Archon, I miss talking to a whole passel of old school MK'ers. They were all pretty damn good, from gov to membership. Do you know that MK was given the chance to vote on the defense of GR in the noCB war? I wonder who here remembers how that membership vote turned out. Archon certainly was a good role model, but those he raised were great as well. [quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1320526508' post='2839777'] I have to say, when [i]Londo Mollari[/i] is telling you you're heading towards being the new NPO and you're betraying the spirit of Karma, you probably ought to stop for reflection. He's hardly a well-known moral crusader.[/quote] I seem to recall participating in this thing called "Karma" a while back. And then there was some business about defending my allies from overwhelming odds and getting saddled with crushing reps my alliance barely survived before that. That was back when honoring treaties wasn't very trendy or popular. You may not like everything I've done, but I feel pretty comfortable with it all. It's been guided by a fundamental sense of fun, justice, and fair play. As far as betraying the spirit of Karma, I don't even believe that. I don't think the point of Karma was to make it so that no one could ever do anything villainous again... it was 2 things. 1) Mutual self defense from an alliance that wanted to use divide and conquer to roll us one by one over and over again to provide a string of endless victories to satiate their membership's lust for perpetual "victory" (this was NPO). No one was safe, not even their own "allies". 2) Punishment for repeated "crimes against humanity" that were completely outside the spirit of fair play. If MK wants to play a realpolitik villain then I hope they have fun, but I think it stinks. I think it stinks that they've attracted all of these new realpolitik type actors from the days when I first allied them - because they were successful. I think it's a shame that MK lost the cultural war after they won the fighting war. Because that is, in essence, what has happened here. The old culture is mostly gone and most of those who practiced it are inactive now, or going along with the "new ways".

If Nordreich drops your protectorate I am more than capable of singlehandedly raiding your alliance for as long as I feel like. You are welcome to try to steamroll me into the ground if that day comes. :v

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1320510099' post='2839639'] Heres the thing you consistently miss here, might does make right. Your long term experience in this game should provide you with all the evidence you need to understand that. ITs the reason why I don't have to justify our actions to you. Partly because I'm not government, mostly because you're insignificant. Your objections won't do anything to change our course of action. You asked for a reason, I gave a reasonable answer. You chose to ignore addressing my point, continue to cry "monster", and continue your usual soap box posturing that is just so typically you. [/quote] If might alone truly made right then MK would have been rubbed out a long time ago, when you were weak. People also respect things like nobility, self-sacrifice, honor, and a sense of fair play. Power changes because of these things. NPO was not cast down because they were weak, but because they were not just. In my view, MK has chosen to renounce all of the qualities that made them great to pursue this concept of might. True strength is found not only in pixels and in the pixels of allies who will honor pieces of paper they have signed saying that they will do so, but in being able to command the respect and admiration even of those who styled themselves as your enemies. Chasing the kind of might that the NPO had will at worst get you killed and at best make you into another NPO. Is that really what you want? I applaud your service to the world in casting yourself as a villain when there was none before, but I condemn that you have squandered the specialness that was MK's potential to reinvent the spectre of your old enemy.

[quote name='AirMe' timestamp='1320509483' post='2839630'] Yes as a relatively inactive leader of a 24 nation alliance who's allies are all directly or indirectly tied to MK in someway, I really have the power and time to do something like that. I played the white knight in the past to help MK survive and see how well that has worked out. No, I think I will just sit on the sidelines and call you guys out on how crappy of an alliance you have turned into. And if you don't like my opinion, do something about it. Because then it would truly show how far the mighty have fallen. I dare you. [/quote] You should have never left MK, AirMe. But I don't know that even you could have kept them from going realpolitik.

[quote name='wickedj' timestamp='1320442529' post='2838790'] Lets declare on BAPS and disband them... [/quote] We're sort of allied to BAPS wicked. *cough*

Why attack Legion for winning a war when you can just attack Polar? We should all be giving Legion a pat on the back for actually: A) Starting an aggressive war from an inferior political position B) Winning If you guys want a war there are plenty of good targets floating around out there. Depriving Legion of their first military victory since... ever? is just cruel. It's like grabbing a kid on prom night and dragging him out of his car, beating the crap out of him in front of his date, smacking the crap out of the date, and then yelling "IT NEVER HAPPENED BRAWWWWW I WINNNNNNNN". Legion just lost their aggressive war victory virginity. We should be buying them a beer, not.... this.

[size="4"]Sometimes you just gotta keep that pimp hand strong![/size] [IMG]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-RrwHPnZmzGc/TcqxLUqk9iI/AAAAAAAAAaU/WnD2DdQendw/s1600/pimp-hand-demotivational-poster-1230430709.jpg[/IMG]

NPL expels their best member and keeps the idiot. Color me amused.