the damned

I can assure you, good sir, that i have done no such thing

Ive been playing this game for damn near four years. Ive never been in a position of power within any of the alliances that i have been in and i know little about what goes on behind the scene. I basically form my opinions on what i gather from OWF, my alliance, musings from other old timer, ect ect. This case is no different. Now that i have bored most of the few players that bothered to check out this thread to the point of closing their browser and bashing their fore head against the nearest hard surface, i will get to the point for those still with us. The argument has been made that Athens and Rok's CB is invalid. Now, for obvious reasons (hint: look at my alliance tag) i feel that the CB is valid. I believe this due to the fact that according to this there was never an official declaration of war between TPF and Athens/Rok. There are several reasons why alliances chose to declare war against specific enemies rather than the opposing side as a whole (i think everyone can figure out major reasons so i am not going to list them) mhawk signaled out these two alliances to subvert. He and his cabinet created an alliance specifically to destroy them from the inside. Whether or not the plan was successfully carried it is irrelevant. TPF initiated the conflict by establishing ZH with the hope that it would one day infiltrate Athens and destroy it from the inside. A failed spy attempt is still spying. I am going to go out on a limb and say that i understand mhawk's reasons for doing this. He felt that his alliance would face a similar situation as that of FAN and he attempted to fight an endless war by copying a play from the book of the only alliance that successfully fought one. What he did not count on was peace. Im not going to praise the mercy of Karma for coming to terms with TPF or the rest of the Hegemony's side. Im sure that Karma's reasons for granting it were self serving and i highly doubt that it was solely done for the sake of doing what is right. I apologize but i am not exactly certain when TPF and ZH had their falling out. However, the point remains that (if you consider spying to be an act of aggression towards another alliance) TPF had initiated a conflict with the aforementioned alliances. Once he had peace he could have gone to Athens and Ragnarok and told them what he had done. Im sure neither one would have been happy about it, but the punishment would have probably been less severe had it come out at that time. The fact that it has taken this long to surface does not lessen his guilt. A murder committed twenty years ago does not make the crime any less grievous. I can also see why he would not want to bring added suffering upon TPF but he had over six months to come clean and he didnt. As far as the culpability of Zero Hour goes, they do deserve some of the blame IMO. I have no idea what their punishment should be and i am afraid that its up to the offended parties to make sure that justice is served. Before I begin the final part of this little crap fest of mine, i would like to say that this is a view that i hold separate from my allies and alliance. I think that the offended parties could have waited before attacking. This does not mean that i think they were necessarily wrong in doing so. I personally think the correct thing to do would have been to figure out a reps package that would have compensated for the spies. Its possible that, had mhawk or TPF gov. gone to Athens and/or Rok in the first place with this proposal, there might have been a way to work out a peaceful deal. Its entirely possible that the offended parties would still have demanded blood for the offense but I dont know for sure (I dont know Lando or Hoo well enough to judge which way they would go. I know, I know im an awful citizen of bob). The fact of the matter is that TPF never attempted to make amends for their crime. The thing that i find most disturbing is why mhawk would chose to activate his treaties? Had i been in his position, i would have refused to do this and taken the brunt of the attack on my alliance alone. If he considers what happened a mistake this would show that he was willing to take responsibility for a plan that ended up a complete disaster. If he doesnt, in the very least he would spare a large group of recovering allies the pounding that a large scale conflict would incur (win or lose). In the past few weeks it seems that the body of what was once known as Karma has been eying each other suspiciously. A couple weeks worth of taking a beating could have allowed other issues to surface that may have caused TPF's attackers to divert focus from it. But now im just rambling... Thank you for bearing with me. Its been a long, disappointing day and i thought id provide the cyberverse with a useless wall of text.

Maybe eventually a part of Karma will gather and form a powerful block, but at the moment (like it was mentioned above) there are far too many players with competing ideologies within it to actually resemble WUT/TI/Q.

Oh snap. I remember that. I miss the old forums as well.

Sorry dudes, i currently have negative fifty in my account. Do love the radio show though.

Congrats guys. I hope you have a long peaceful stay at the top.

Bad @#$%. Every single one of you.

The one thing about the NAAC that i can say is, although it may have been hated by some, it was respected by the vast majority of people within the game. To bring it back now would be wrong. It was a great alliance for its time and place.

Are you in a twist about this AUT or are you just messing with the guys from \m/? I say this only because i seem to remember you begging people for a second (and possibly third) chance a while ago. Ive read the entire thread and i cant seem to figure out which one it is.

late on that one.

sorry, I meant to put "if there are no past grudges left unresolved".

Why is this such an issue? If there are past grudges left unresolved and a group of people want to bring back a dead alliance, so what? If they fudge it up then attack them. Till then, welcome back \m/ and welcome to the black team.

Its raining men. But seriously folks, i have no idea.

I liked it. wra

I wouldnt go rogue. Id either offer my nation to someone in sparta who had a trustworthy friend or to an ex-cner whose nation was deleted. But if i had to choose, id say Tulak if i was anywhere near his NS level. Wouldnt nook him though because that's just mean.

Well it was the Trojans and the outlaying city-states throughout asia minor. Also, two things against the greek invasion force is that seige weapons were probably extremely primative at the time, especially for a force that had to cross a very large body of water on vessals that couldnt hold much in the way of heavy weaponry. This is if you buy into the tradition set up by Homer's epics. But back to the topic at hand, the OP and following post made me lol hard. Its good to see former enemies working together to make all of cn laugh.

Looks like everything's is a complete mess. Sorry to see close allies become so distanced as the result of one nation. PS. Sethb, love the avatar

Congrats Moo, two more future CN'ers

Have fun in the purple sphere, BTA. Ive spent much of my time in cn there and its a great place with many good alliances. Sorry that your stay in Black/NOIR wasnt as pleasant as everyone hoped it would be. Take care.

Welcome back TTB! I always enjoyed your posts and its going to be interesting to see what you do. Also to restate a previous post, go to the NSO. Id like to see both you and Ivan in an alliance together.

THE HELL HE IS!!!

Congrats GO on a very successful year. Here's to another one :cheers:

I agree ^@#% Rush! Also:

If i celebrate with you Emp. Strange, may i have a hard cider?

Looks like abortions for some none, minature american flags for others... Sorry to see this didnt go the full term....