Ragnarok Announcement

[Azaghul]

Professor plum...... in the library....... with the candlestick

your scenario is gaping wide with a lack of details, warchest levels, WRC's, HNMS, spy levels and/or CIA. But you just want to say that there's some one size fits all, that would make sense for someone who calls themself WarriorConcept instead of WarriorPractice.

p.s. I liked Ninja_R better.

The point is still accurate, even if those factors make some slight changes to the numbers.

[CptGodzilla]

Professor plum...... in the library....... with the candlestick

your scenario is gaping wide with a lack of details, warchest levels, WRC's, HNMS, spy levels and/or CIA. But you just want to say that there's some one size fits all, that would make sense for someone who calls themself WarriorConcept instead of WarriorPractice.

p.s. I liked Ninja_R better.

Ok, we will put it into terms you can understand

which situation would you rather have

20 nukes vs. 2 nations (equates to 7 days of war [6 nukes] for both nations. 8 nukes leftover when war times out)

or

20 nukes vs. 4 nations (equates to 6 days of war [5 nukes] for all 4 nations)

You decide.

[uaciaut]

Wasn't our nuke fight, chief.

Did you do that with OMFG while activating your MDP with Umbrella as well? Because i'd be seriously pissed if i were umb right now if you did (not that the fact that i'm not makes me happy lol)

[Xiphosis]

I know Chill's already been crucified to high hell, but I'd just like to back up what I've already said in this thread, and stop just implying crap. Here's the specific beginning of the pressure RoK got heaped on them to give IRON white peace:

(21:23:18) (@Lee) Chill: i have to talk to you in detail about this

(21:23:18) (@Lee) [12:51am] Chill: just give me time

(21:23:19) (@Lee) [12:51am] Chill: ill explain everything

(21:23:19) (@Lee) [12:52am] Gen_Lee: k

(21:23:19) (@Lee) [12:54am] Gen_Lee: is there a channel i should join

(21:23:20) (@Lee) [12:59am] Chill: you there

(21:23:21) (@Lee) [01:00am] Gen_Lee: yes

(21:23:23) (@Lee) [01:00am] Chill: ok here is the deal

(21:23:25) (@Lee) [01:00am] Chill: you might not like it but we had no choice

(21:23:27) (@Lee) [01:00am] Chill: we didnt know who IRON was gonna hit

(21:23:29) (@Lee) [01:00am] Chill: so we had to plan quickly based of what we had already

(21:23:31) (@Lee) [01:01am] Gen_Lee: ?

(21:23:32) (@Lee) [01:02am] Chill: so here is the deal with IRON

(21:23:34) (@Lee) [01:02am] Chill: as you know TOP have declared that they will defend IRON against offensive attacks

(21:23:36) (@Lee) [01:03am] Gen_Lee: from non mdp treatied alliances

(21:23:38) (@Lee) [01:03am] Gen_Lee: amirite

(21:23:40) (@Lee) [01:04am] Chill: yea

(21:23:41) (@Lee) [01:04am] Chill: at the same time we had a lack of upper tier nations that could effectively cover IRON

(21:23:43) (@Lee) [01:04am] Chill: (do you have Teamspeak by any chance?)

(21:23:45) (@Lee) [01:05am] Gen_Lee: no

(21:23:47) (@Lee) [01:06am] Chill: moreover IRON are insanly strong

(21:23:48) (@Lee) [01:06am] Chill: and they by themselves have the power to fark up the entire Karma effort

(21:23:50) (@Lee) [01:06am] Gen_Lee: well TOP is null here

(21:23:52) (@Lee) [01:06am] Gen_Lee: bc its all mdp alliances

(21:23:53) (@Lee) [01:06am] Chill: but they are not too happy about having to fight for NBPO

(21:23:55) (@Lee) [01:07am] Chill: i know TOP is null

(21:23:57) (@Lee) [01:07am] Chill: at least now they are

(21:23:59) (@Lee) [01:07am] Chill: so the following agreement was reached

(21:24:00) (@Lee) [01:08am] Chill: IRON honors their treaty to make an effort for NPO's sake

(21:24:02) (@Lee) [01:09am] Chill: but to avoid them tearing up Karma and to satify TOP that IRON would not be destroyed.....

(21:24:03) (@Lee) [01:09am] Chill: loose loose situation.....

(21:24:05) (@Lee) [01:09am] Chill: we agreeed that IRON would grant Gre the TOA cancelation and we would come in with Fark to back you up

(21:24:07) (@Lee) [01:10am] Chill: so now we will have Gre, Fark and Rok covering IRON which should be enough to contain them and mitigate damage to all while still allowing us to win the war

(21:24:08) (@Lee) [01:11am] Gen_Lee: whoa whoa whoa

(21:24:10) (@Lee) [01:11am] Gen_Lee: you already made a deal

(21:24:11) (@Lee) [01:11am] Chill: yea we had to

(21:24:13) (@Lee) [01:11am] Chill: and we had to do it quickly once we knew who they were gonna hit

(21:24:15) (@Lee) [01:12am] Chill: we had no time to talk to you

(21:24:16) (@Lee) [01:12am] Gen_Lee: they were hitting us

(21:24:18) (@Lee) [01:12am] Gen_Lee: its vital you talk to us

(21:24:19) (@Lee) [01:12am] Chill: i know but this happened within 30 minutes of update

(21:24:21) (@Lee) [01:12am] Chill: but let me finish

(21:24:22) (@Lee) [01:13am] Chill: the 3 of us will fight IRON for 1-2 rounds

(21:24:24) (@Lee) [01:13am] Chill: at which point they will exit having fulfilled their obligation to NPO

(21:24:25) (@Lee) [01:13am] Chill: leaving Karma free to finish the job against NPO and its strongest supporters

(21:24:27) (@Lee) [01:14am] Gen_Lee: exit how

(21:24:28) (@Lee) [01:14am] Gen_Lee: surrendering

(21:24:30) (@Lee) [01:14am] Chill: white peace

(21:24:31) (@Lee) [01:14am] Chill: yea

(21:24:33) (@Lee) [01:14am] Gen_Lee: thats bull****

(21:24:34) (@Lee) [01:14am] Gen_Lee: you signed Rok up to be royally farked

(21:24:36) (@Lee) [01:14am] Gen_Lee: we are on 3 god damn fronts

(21:24:37) (@Lee) [01:14am] Chill: how so?

(21:24:38) (@Lee) [01:14am] Gen_Lee: we dont cover Iron at all

(21:24:40) (@Lee) [01:15am] Chill: yea we are gonna pick up most of the hits

(21:24:41) (@Lee) [01:15am] Gen_Lee: as you said earlier

(21:24:43) (@Lee) [01:15am] Chill: we came in exactly to keep IRON from hurting anyone else too hard

(21:24:44) (@Lee) [01:16am] Gen_Lee: why not bring in MHA/sparta

(21:24:45) (@Lee) [01:16am] Gen_Lee: what is the point

(21:24:47) (@Lee) [01:16am] Chill: Sparta have conflicting treaties

(21:24:48) (@Lee) [01:16am] Gen_Lee: then MHA

(21:24:49) (@Lee) [01:16am] Gen_Lee: i see no reason my alliance should take that damage so they can get white peace

(21:24:51) (@Lee) [01:16am] Chill: the point is TOP wont allow IRON to be destoryed so a balance had to be stuck

(21:24:52) (@Lee) [01:17am] Chill: they will get damage too

(21:24:53) (@Lee) [01:17am] Chill: so will we and Fark

(21:24:55) (@Lee) [01:17am] Chill: in fact we are pikcing up most of the upper tier

(21:24:56) (@Lee) [01:17am] Chill: which was the biggest issue for Karma

(21:24:57) (@Lee) [01:17am] Gen_Lee: of course you are, you are loaded with top 10% nations

(21:24:58) (@Lee) [01:17am] Chill: i know

(21:25:00) (@Lee) [01:17am] Chill: but for that to happen

(21:25:01) (@Lee) [01:17am] Chill: we had to make a deal for them to waive our TOA

(21:25:02) (@Lee) [01:18am] Chill: and TOP be cool with it

(21:25:04) (@Lee) [01:18am] Chill: otherwise their top tier would have wreacked people

(21:25:05) (@Lee) [01:18am] Chill: my plan was actually to have Fark and Gre only pick up IRON

(21:25:06) (@Lee) [01:18am] Chill: but we didnt manage to organize that in time

(21:25:07) (@Lee) [01:19am] Chill: so we had to settle for a 2nd best approach

(21:25:08) (@Lee) [01:19am] Chill: fact is IRON was gonna come on you no matter what

(21:25:09) (@Lee) [01:19am] Chill: this way you pick up less damage and its over sooner

(21:25:11) (@Lee) [01:19am] Chill: TOP stays out

(21:25:12) (@Lee) [01:19am] Chill: and Karma is assured victory

(21:25:13) (@Lee) [01:20am] Gen_Lee: i doubt we pick up less damage them having MHA come to our assistance

(21:25:14) (@Lee) [01:21am] Chill: well if that becomes an issue we will discuss bringin in MHA

(21:25:15) (@Lee) [01:21am] Gen_Lee: this is a major issue

(21:25:16) (@Lee) [01:21am] Gen_Lee: i was not consulted

(21:25:17) (@Lee) [01:21am] Chill: i know

(21:25:19) (@Lee) [01:21am] Gen_Lee: and my alliance gets crushed in this

(21:25:20) (@Lee) [01:22am] Chill: no you dont man

(21:25:21) (@Lee) [01:22am] Chill: Sparta couldnt come in anyway

(21:25:22) (@Lee) [01:22am] Chill: it would have been you MHA and Fark with thier top tier free to rain hell

(21:25:23) (@Lee) [01:23am] Gen_Lee: and GRE would have gone where?

(21:25:24) (@Lee) [01:23am] Chill: probably Valhalla

(21:25:25) (@Lee) [01:23am] Chill: where we would be redundant

(21:25:26) (@Lee) [01:23am] Chill: we have been trying to arrange this all day to pick up IRON

(21:25:27) (@Lee) [01:23am] Chill: but we had to go through TOP first

(21:25:28) (@Lee) [01:23am] Gen_Lee: well valhalla just hit one of my treaty partners

(21:25:29) (@Lee) [01:23am] Chill: thats why everything was last minutes

(21:25:30) (@Lee) [01:23am] Gen_Lee: who has no backup at all

(21:25:31) (@Lee) [01:24am] Chill: who?

(21:25:32) (@Lee) [01:24am] Gen_Lee: be VE and Rok are in deep

(21:25:33) (@Lee) [01:24am] Gen_Lee: syndicate

(21:25:34) (@Lee) [01:24am] Chill: hmm

(21:25:35) (@Lee) [01:24am] Chill: we can maybe direct MHA of FCC htere

(21:25:36) (@Lee) [01:24am] Chill: we can work that out

(21:25:37) (@Lee) [01:24am] Chill: bottom line is though

(21:25:38) (@Lee) [01:24am] Chill: IRON are contained

(21:25:39) (@Lee) [01:24am] Chill: so Karma wins

(21:25:40) (@Lee) [01:25am] Chill: if i could have limited all of IRONs damamge to Gre i would have

(21:25:41) (@Lee) [01:25am] Chill: but we just didnt have time to do that

(21:25:41) (@Lee) [01:25am] Chill: but right now you got the full military and financial back up of Gre

(21:25:43) (@Lee) [01:26am] Gen_Lee: white peace is unacceptable

(21:25:44) (@Lee) [01:26am] Chill: well thats the condition for their exit

(21:25:44) (@Lee) [01:26am] Chill: what would be your condition?

(21:25:46) (@Lee) [01:26am] Gen_Lee: essentially they get to save face nuking my our nations and rly fark up mine and walk off scott free

(21:25:48) (@Lee) [01:27am] Chill: they get nuked too

(21:25:49) (@Lee) [01:27am] Chill: and keep in mind the big picture

(21:25:50) (@Lee) [01:27am] Chill: IRON dont tear up Karma

(21:25:51) (@Lee) [01:28am] Chill: and we win

(21:25:51) (@Lee) [01:28am] Gen_Lee: we can win this without making that concession

(21:25:54) (@Lee) [01:28am] Gen_Lee: there side is in shambles

(21:25:54) (@Lee) [01:28am] Gen_Lee: example proven staging fake entries

(21:25:54) (@Lee) [01:28am] Chill: no its not

(21:25:55) (@Lee) [01:28am] Chill: and dont forget

(21:25:57) (@Lee) [01:28am] Chill: TOP will not allow IRON to be cratered

(21:25:59) (@Lee) [01:29am] Chill: you add TOP to that side, NSO come in as well

(21:25:59) (@Lee) [01:29am] Chill: not they have a solid front

(21:26:00) (@Lee) [01:29am] Chill: and no one really wins

(21:26:00) (@Lee) [01:29am] Gen_Lee: i wont allow Rok to be cratered for TOP or IRONs benefit

(21:26:02) (@Lee) [01:29am] Chill: you wont

(21:26:04) (@Lee) [01:29am] Chill: as i said we are picking up the upper tier

(21:26:05) (@Lee) [01:30am] Chill: and in max 2 weeks this is over

(21:26:05) (@Lee) [01:31am] Chill: look its not ideal i know

(21:26:06) (@Lee) [01:31am] Chill: but its better than facing IRON with Fark and MHA alone without any upper tier support

(21:26:08) (@Lee) [01:31am] Chill: and its better than IRON and TOP fully committing to the other side

(21:26:10) (@Lee) [01:32am] Chill: IRON are not fully happy with this, and neither are TOP or you

(21:26:12) (@Lee) [01:32am] Chill: and neither am i

(21:26:14) (@Lee) [01:32am] Chill: but show me a better compromise and ill say we farked up in doing this

(21:26:15) (@Lee) [01:33am] Gen_Lee: better compromise is they take licks from MHA/FCC then bow out

(21:26:17) (@Lee) [01:33am] Chill: hows that gonna happen? FCC cant fight them witout a way in

(21:26:21) (@Lee) [01:34am] Chill: MHA can but whos gonna cover the upper tier in that scenario

(21:26:22) (@Lee) [01:34am] Gen_Lee: you are already in

(21:26:23) (@Lee) [01:34am] Chill: well we would have never been able to come in had this not been agreed with TOP and IRON

(21:26:25) (@Lee) [01:34am] Chill: it would be you fark and MHA

(21:26:25) (@Lee) [01:35am] Gen_Lee: i was never consulted, it is imperative im involved in any deals with Rok

(21:26:29) (@Lee) [01:35am] Chill: i told you man

(21:26:29) (@Lee) [01:35am] Chill: this was all done in the last 30 min

(21:26:29) (@Lee) [01:35am] Gen_Lee: i could have possibly pulled polar

(21:26:31) (@Lee) [01:35am] Chill: had there been time of course you would hve

(21:26:32) (@Lee) [01:35am] Chill: nah

(21:26:33) (@Lee) [01:35am] Chill: Polar come in TOP destroys them

(21:26:34) (@Lee) [01:36am] Chill: to win this war we need IRON out

(21:26:35) (@Lee) [01:36am] Chill: to have IRON out we need to assure TOP they wont get destroyed

(21:26:37) (@Lee) [01:36am] Gen_Lee: then they surrender with terms

(21:26:37) (@Lee) [01:36am] Chill: why would they?

(21:26:39) (@Lee) [01:36am] Chill: they could very well give us all hell

(21:26:40) (@Lee) [01:36am] Gen_Lee: they want out

(21:26:41) (@Lee) [01:36am] Chill: that would not be in anyones interest

(21:26:42) (@Lee) [01:36am] Chill: they want out but they dont have to go out

(21:26:42) (@Lee) [01:37am] Gen_Lee: this is not in my interest

(21:26:44) (@Lee) [01:37am] Chill: who so?

(21:26:45) (@Lee) [01:37am] Chill: you wanna have thier upper tier on you?

(21:26:45) (@Lee) [01:37am] Gen_Lee: bc we are on 3 fronts

(21:26:46) (@Lee) [01:37am] Gen_Lee: and weve been fighting since day 1

(21:26:48) (@Lee) [01:37am] Chill: i get it but we never arragned for them to hit Rok

(21:26:50) (@Lee) [01:38am] Chill: as i said fi we could we would have kept this to Gre and Fark

(21:26:52) (@Lee) [01:38am] Chill: we just didnt have time to

(21:26:53) (@Lee) [01:38am] Chill: they were gonna hit you no matter what

Amusing/relevant parts highlighted. Be afraid guys. Be very afraid.

[WarriorConcept]

What content did your post have?

Do you all organize on IRC to come up with talking points?

The fact that he let his alliance members and allies eat more nukes? Then your random entrance saying a random throwaway line that bore no forbearance on the argument at hand?

[Mogar]

So you let your alliance mates and allies eat the extra nukes? Admirable.

considering at the time I was the only person in IRAN with nuclear weapons and my slots were full, there wasn't a whole lot I could do about others getting nuked, those I was at war with made it clear to me they'd follow the same policy towards my members, but sure, you're right.

[LOLtex]

Wow TOP really did that?

There goes a lot of the respect I had for them.

I don't believe we intentionally and maliciously used up enemy spy slots in an attempt to have other Coalition members receive more nukes. That certainly was not in our war orders. We never received government approval to use nukes on certain alliances because they did not nuke us, which is our nuclear policy. I think you'd find it quite disturbing if other alliances, particularly those you aren't even treatied to, had control over your policies as well.

[Nananana]

You realize it doesn't change the final outcome at all as he can focus all his nukes on less targets, right?

Last I checked, you can't fire nukes in bill lock. So clearly warchest levels aren't irrelevent. Sure, he could sell off huge chunks of infra to then pay his bills when he runs out of money and then keep nuking, but wouldn't that be more affective than any nuke you could throw at him.

Furthermore, there are numerous opportunities when the people who's wars we were helping with got in our way. So if people are going to try and trip up some of our efforts through their careless actions, why should we try so hard? Seems like a double standard to me.

[Vladimir Stukov II]

Hence my "I wish TOP hadn't joined the war" comment that got me down this sidetrack.

TOP only declared on nations that had 3 defensive slots open. That means NOBODY from another alliance was declaring on them. So if anything we helped the other nations fighting them just because we added more conventional firepower. From my personal experiences in this war, I and some other TOP nations coordinated with the GOD nations fighting the same target which allowed us to break the nation's defenses. Before we joined in, this nation was holding out against the GOD nations he had attacked. So to say TOP didn't help in this war and only hurt the alliances we were fighting beside is just false.

Edited May 30, 2009 by Vladimir Stukov II

[LOLtex]

Did you do that with OMFG while activating your MDP with Umbrella as well? Because i'd be seriously pissed if i were umb right now if you did (not that the fact that i'm not makes me happy lol)

Umbrella is an ally of ours, MDP level. SF is not.

[WarriorConcept]

Last I checked, you can't fire nukes in bill lock. So clearly warchest levels aren't irrelevent. Sure, he could sell off huge chunks of infra to then pay his bills when he runs out of money and then keep nuking, but wouldn't that be more affective than any nuke you could throw at him.

Furthermore, there are numerous opportunities when the people who's wars we were helping with got in our way. So if people are going to try and trip up some of our efforts through their careless actions, why should we try so hard? Seems like a double standard to me.

The scenario could apply to anything, if the warchest level is lower it's still better for the one nation fighting everyone else because he has to use less nukes on opponents and buy less in the long run to inflict more damage over a stretch. Regardless the fundamental logic of the less people to nukes, the worse of for those getting nuked, is still a certainty.

[Delta1212]

TOP only declared on nations that had 3 defensive slots open. That means NOBODY from another alliance was declaring on them. So if anything we helped the other nations fighting them just because we added more conventional firepower. From my personal experiences in this war, I and some other TOP nations coordinated with the GOD nations fighting the same target which allowed us to break the nations defenses. Before we joined in this nation was holding out against the GOD nations he attacked. So to say TOP didn't help in this war and only hurt the alliances we were fighting beside is just false.

Edit: Ok, I'm going to try to tone myself down a bit.

I didn't say you hurt everyone you fought beside, I just said your military contribution was low enough that it wasn't worth the clashes your involvement often caused.

Edited May 30, 2009 by Delta1212

[Nizzle]

I'm not sure who those logs help. It really seems like sound strategic reasoning to me, while being a bit rude. I'm also not sure how wise it is to post them. Again, exposing "dishonorable" behavior by revealing it "dishonorably" is epic fail. Did RoK ever get cratered?

[Vladimir Stukov II]

I didn't say you only hurt the alliances you were fighting beside. I said I wish you hadn't entered the war, because your military contribution wasn't worth all of the other !@#$%^&* because you weren't nuking. If you want to know what I mean by all of the other !@#$%^&*, I mean the massive internal clashes. Like this thread.

Yea, this thread is clearly TOP's fault.

[Chickenzilla]

Yea, this thread is clearly TOP's fault.

It seems more like whoever was trying to slander RoK's name's fault.

[Nizzle]

Edit: Ok, I'm going to try to tone myself down a bit.

I didn't say you hurt everyone you fought beside, I just said your military contribution was low enough that it wasn't worth the clashes your involvement often caused.

Missed your edit.

Glad you somehow manage to blame TOP for causing all this drama.

It seems more like whoever was trying to slander RoK's name's fault.

The claims definitely came from a credible witness who could provide zero proof. I can see how GRE and TOP definitely thought it was a fool proof plan to soil RoK's name.

In the end, only one group continues to soil their image in public by viciously attacking their coalition mates in public.

Edited May 30, 2009 by Nizzle

[Delta1212]

Yea, this thread is clearly TOP's fault.

It takes two to tango. Remove one of the partners and everything is peachy. Hence the "Your military contribution wasn't worth the clashes."

Also, see the edit.

Edited May 30, 2009 by Delta1212

[CptGodzilla]

I'm not sure who those logs help. It really seems like sound strategic reasoning to me, while being a bit rude. I'm also not sure how wise it is to post them. Again, exposing "dishonorable" behavior by revealing it "dishonorably" is epic fail. Did RoK ever get cratered?

Ok, in the next war, we will let Kronos get stomped to hell for 2 weeks, when those 2 weeks are up they won't get any reps and are left to deal with other fronts of the war.

Sound like a plan? deal!

Edited May 30, 2009 by CptGodzilla

[Nizzle]

It takes two to tango. Remove one of the partners and everything is peachy. Hence the "Your military contribution wasn't worth the clashes."

Also, see the edit.

Are you serious?

Some of you have consistently insulted high-end alliances that you needed to take out high-end targets with ease...and you're going with THIS line? Wow. Just wow.

[Gears of War]

Yea, this thread is clearly TOP's fault.

If TOP and others had accepted Gen Lee's repeated assertions that their numbers were incorrect in the other thread and had not started spreading those numbers around then this thread would have been completely unnecessary,

[LOLtex]

It takes two to tango. Remove one of the partners and everything is peachy. Hence the "Your military contribution wasn't worth the clashes."

Also, see the edit.

Right, I love the circular logic here. If TOP shut up, everything would be fine. If you guys shut up, everything would be peachy as well. In both scenarios, neither one expresses their opinions and someone always loses. You'd just rather it be us and have us not defend ourselves, right?

[Delta1212]

Are you serious?

Some of you have consistently insulted high-end alliances that you needed to take out high-end targets with ease...and you're going with THIS line? Wow. Just wow.

We needed people to take out high end targets on IRON, mostly. Grämlins did that. I really don't have a problem with them. TOP eased some load. They weren't necessary.

[Vol Navy]

Man, all that o/TOP and back patting in their declartion threads have sure dried up now.

I sure would've loved to have had them on this side of the conflict and I guess by reading many of the posts in here, some of their "allies" in this coalition would have rather had them on this side as well.

To be such ineffective fighters and to have brought so little to the table it sure seemed like peace quickly followed whatever front they joined.

[Vladimir Stukov II]

We needed people to take out high end targets on IRON, mostly. Grämlins did that. I really don't have a problem with them. TOP eased some load. They weren't necessary.

RIA wasn't necessary either so I fail to see your point.

[Delta1212]

Right, I love the circular logic here. If TOP shut up, everything would be fine. If you guys shut up, everything would be peachy as well. In both scenarios, neither one expresses their opinions and someone always loses. You'd just rather it be us and have us not defend ourselves, right?

No, I'd rather you weren't in the war. You can yammer on all you want.