Evangeline Anovilis Posted October 10, 2014 Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 Incorrect. You will notice that my header is "just a notation". It is to let people know where I'm going to stop personally recognizing any additional actions and if they complain later will be my reference point for the cut-off. I am freezing any further war preparations or war rps in Asia until Europe catches up in the time line. Not even... And as long as it isn't Ty doing the freeze, you might ignore RP after your cut. You cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring the RP though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted October 10, 2014 Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 (edited) Sure I can, time hasn't caught up yet. Unless a GM states I have to recognize something that hasn't happened yet. I won't acknowledge it. I have stopped the progress my nation at a specific point in time, so anything done after it.. hasn't happened to it yet. I asked Vektor politely for a pause and he continued as did others in Asia. So now I'm effecting one they cannot ignore by taking control of my own timeline. Edited October 10, 2014 by Maelstrom Vortex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 Due to Dotcom's suggestion, I am requesting an autoadvance on behalf of myself, FHIC, Hershey, Lynneth, and Mara. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triyun Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 I am ready to respond to mogar and fhic I have their shit written. The fact remains though Lyn is using military systems with no URL Counterpart and Mara won't tell me how to account for numbers I'm Contradiction with force limits imposed in the rules. Unless rules only apply to some that's ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 I believe your complaint with Lynneth was about his missiles, with minor modification you could turn a tomahawk into a HARM missile, considering an AGM-88 is nearly half the size of a Tomahawk, I would assume a Tomahawk would have the space required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurius Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 I believe your complaint with Lynneth was about his missiles, with minor modification you could turn a tomahawk into a HARM missile, considering an AGM-88 is nearly half the size of a Tomahawk, I would assume a Tomahawk would have the space required. Conversion is potentially possible but it's a pretty major change so just like the ruling on modernized Battleships and alternative aircraft it should be both developed in rp and approved by a GM. Also going to object to an auto as well, as the delay is entirely caused by the refusal of people on the other side to give information needed to respond properly it is not our fault the response isn't up yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 (edited) Please refer to here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-radiation_missile Anti-radiation is old tech, Lynneth could easily outfit his tomahawks for that. It is your fault for nitpick something that is easily possible and that you even acknowledge as such. Missiles guidance systems are interchangeable, It's not a major change. it's not like modifying a battleship at all. Bickering blathering metagaming cowards. Edited October 11, 2014 by Maelstrom Vortex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurius Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 Please refer to here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-radiation_missile Anti-radiation is old tech, Lynneth could easily outfit his tomahawks for that. It is your fault for nitpick something that is easily possible and that you even acknowledge as such. Missiles guidance systems are interchangeable, It's not a major change. it's not like modifying a battleship at all. Bickering blathering metagaming cowards. So is putting VLS on an old Battleship, still needs GM approval. Also if you'd actually bother reading stuff beyond the first line you'd notice that that is far from the only information request/objection still pending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 (edited) Guidance systems on modern missiles are modular. In fact most versions of the SM Block 3 even have technical notes to this indication and some of them have multiple guidance roles. That means they are very easily swapped out. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomahawk_%28missile%29 Description The Tomahawk missile family consists of a number of subsonic, jet engine-powered missiles designed to attack a variety of surface targets. Although a number of launch platforms have been deployed or envisaged, only sea (both surface ship and submarine) launched variants are currently in service. Tomahawk has a modular design, allowing a wide variety of warhead, guidance, and range capabilities. [hr] GM doesn't have to allow it, the weapon system does for those of us who actually read the fine print. You're getting a bad case of foot in mouth disease trying to defend these petty ploys Cent. That or I might have to order you a case of bifocals. What's your prescript? :P I thought you and hegemony were supposed to have this elite military genius? Did it vanish when playing dumb became advantageous? What are the listing of your other petty inquires and complaints that I may shred them also? Edited October 11, 2014 by Maelstrom Vortex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kingswell Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 Just make it a rule to stick with current tech as it is, no swapping, modifying or changing. Cuts the hassle and is also easier for those of us that struggle with trying to form military forces without worrying about modifications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 Kevin, the missile itself is defined as modular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triyun Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 (edited) You !@#$%*ed about a lot less. I'd have no issue swapping a radar for a harm or optical sensor, I do have an issue an with installing BOTH. Beyond that he's shooting all my satellites from his homeland, with no corresponding IRL ASAT with that capability. Edited October 11, 2014 by Triyun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 (edited) why would you have an issue with both forms of sensors? It's a common loadout now for SM Block missiles to actually have a multi-role sensor suite. Some even lock onto jamming sources as a counter for when their standard sensor payload goes offline. Also, there's plenty of anti-satellite weapons that can knock out your satellites from multiple platforms. One is from naval ships. One is from ground, and a third is from aircraft. Some of them are even cold war designs. Naval http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIM-161_Standard_Missile_3 Air http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASM-135_ASAT Ground http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASAT_program_of_China Important tangent: [hr] Space: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almaz <-AUTOCANNONS IN SPAACCCEE! [hr] Therefore, your complaints no such irl platform exists is vastly overwhelmed by the evidence. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-satellite_weapon Fortunately and unfortunately for me that also means my own systems are at risk.. which is why I have rp'd and noted that they have built in defense mechanisms. So.. let me get this straight. You have been delaying this rp for this long.. simply because you didn't think to wiki anti-satellite weaponry to realize they exist or missile systems to realize they were modular and could hold multiple sensory systems? Edited October 11, 2014 by Maelstrom Vortex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 I'd also like to note you have not made any prior RP of adding an additional Satellite capability, as such you would only have the network of 5 that having the improvements ingame nets you, as per Ty's previous ruling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurius Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 I'd also like to note you have not made any prior RP of adding an additional Satellite capability, as such you would only have the network of 5 that having the improvements ingame nets you, as per Ty's previous ruling. And what ruling would that be? Mael, no. For one those links you have are LEO and Triyun made a pretty strong case against those in the war ooc thread. In that thread you will also find requests for the compositions of enemy fleets(as in knowing how many ships are actually in play), comments over having more military units than the rules allow for, etc. Those are why the war is being held up and if people would just come forward with that information(which an actual GM ruling already said we would have) already the posts could be up pretty fast. But as it is I'm not going to post when the other side can simply edit/metagame itself around the assumptions I make because I never got the information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 (edited) Pretty strong case against what? Killing Leos? Killing HEO or Geostationary sats? Being vague isn't going to help you. I don't care about Triyun's bickering I care about gm rulings. If you're talking about ARES, it exists. Ty ruled when I created ARES that more extensive satellite networks than what you had in game must be rp'd out and developed.. That was part of his ruling on ares as to why my network was possible, it had been rp'd out extensively. You don't get access to information you have not RP'd obtaining. The fleet sizes are in accordance to the rules defining naval sizes in the map thread. Who do you believe has exceeded these parameters? Edited October 11, 2014 by Maelstrom Vortex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 (edited) Nations do not get an inherent advantage based on where they are located (Other things being equal, someone in Swaziland is not at a disadvantage from someone in the USA). Nations do get an advantage through roleplay, which could include the previous extensive roleplay of production/storage of military goods. Mael, Lynneth, and myself had made the effort to RP having additional satellites, you cannot simply assume you have a fully operational spy sat network made up of dozens of satellites simply because you have lots of stats ingame, this is not RP1. Edited October 11, 2014 by Mogar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 Besides, if Lynneth didn't kill them, I sure the hell can :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MostGloriousLeader Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 (edited) Guidance systems on modern missiles are modular. In fact most versions of the SM Block 3 even have technical notes to this indication and some of them have multiple guidance roles. That means they are very easily swapped out. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomahawk_%28missile%29 Description The Tomahawk missile family consists of a number of subsonic, jet engine-powered missiles designed to attack a variety of surface targets. Although a number of launch platforms have been deployed or envisaged, only sea (both surface ship and submarine) launched variants are currently in service. Tomahawk has a modular design, allowing a wide variety of warhead, guidance, and range capabilities. [hr] GM doesn't have to allow it, the weapon system does for those of us who actually read the fine print. You're getting a bad case of foot in mouth disease trying to defend these petty ploys Cent. That or I might have to order you a case of bifocals. What's your prescript? :P I thought you and hegemony were supposed to have this elite military genius? Did it vanish when playing dumb became advantageous? What are the listing of your other petty inquires and complaints that I may shred them also? The tomahawk missile family is a modular design. You can't just slap the seeker from a AGM-88 or a SM-3 in it and expect it to work. http://www.ausairpower.net/Tomahawk-Subtypes.html And I feel like triyun has a point in regards to guidance packages. Take a look at the amount of space available in these things. The tomahawk may be a big missile but over half the missile is the engine and fuel. Over half of whats left is devoted to more fuel and the payload. The room for additional sensors is more or less nonexistent. Now I don't think you wouldn't be able to develop a radiation homing warhead but theres no current such guidance system for the tomahawk irl as far as I know and I don't think its gonna fit both that and another totally different system. I mean I suppose you could reduce the warhead size and fuel tanks to try fit it but then that cuts down on punch and range. Just my two cents. Edited October 11, 2014 by MostGloriousLeader Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 (edited) He could probably use the guidance system from this baby, it is almost identical in size to the tomahawk and probably has a similar guidance system: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIM-174_Standard_ERAM The guidance system should easily fit existing designs. Edited October 11, 2014 by Maelstrom Vortex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triyun Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 Pretty strong case against what? Killing Leos? Killing HEO or Geostationary sats? Being vague isn't going to help you. I don't care about Triyun's bickering I care about gm rulings. If you're talking about ARES, it exists. Ty ruled when I created ARES that more extensive satellite networks than what you had in game must be rp'd out and developed.. That was part of his ruling on ares as to why my network was possible, it had been rp'd out extensively. You don't get access to information you have not RP'd obtaining. The fleet sizes are in accordance to the rules defining naval sizes in the map thread. Who do you believe has exceeded these parameters? why would you have an issue with both forms of sensors? It's a common loadout now for SM Block missiles to actually have a multi-role sensor suite. Some even lock onto jamming sources as a counter for when their standard sensor payload goes offline. Also, there's plenty of anti-satellite weapons that can knock out your satellites from multiple platforms. One is from naval ships. One is from ground, and a third is from aircraft. Some of them are even cold war designs. Naval http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIM-161_Standard_Missile_3 Air http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASM-135_ASAT Ground http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASAT_program_of_China Important tangent: [hr] Space: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almaz <-AUTOCANNONS IN SPAACCCEE! [hr] Therefore, your complaints no such irl platform exists is vastly overwhelmed by the evidence. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-satellite_weapon Fortunately and unfortunately for me that also means my own systems are at risk.. which is why I have rp'd and noted that they have built in defense mechanisms. So.. let me get this straight. You have been delaying this rp for this long.. simply because you didn't think to wiki anti-satellite weaponry to realize they exist or missile systems to realize they were modular and could hold multiple sensory systems? I'm well aware of all those systems, and if you read previous posts I have no problem with Lyn shooting at LEO sates that pass over Tikal from his homeland. Unfortunately there has not been one confirmed test of a ASAT against a GEO or a MEO sat, and no operational ASAT that can shoot LEO sats flying over say Europe from Mexico, which again Lyn defined his ASAT launches from his homeland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesbro Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 (edited) Just make it a rule to stick with current tech as it is, no swapping, modifying or changing. Cuts the hassle and is also easier for those of us that struggle with trying to form military forces without worrying about modifications. This is exactly why I keep my military posts simple and less detailed. The problems with going into the details of all of this military tech is because it makes it harder for those that already do not know that much about that stuff to even understand any of it. Basically what I am trying to say is simple stuff is a lot easier to follow and a lot easier to work with in the end than the really complex stuff which a lot of you guys love to use (Yes I am looking at you Maelstrom and Triyun because you are the ones that seems to use that stuff the most!). Edited October 11, 2014 by jesbro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 (edited) I'm well aware of all those systems, and if you read previous posts I have no problem with Lyn shooting at LEO sates that pass over Tikal from his homeland. Unfortunately there has not been one confirmed test of a ASAT against a GEO or a MEO sat, and no operational ASAT that can shoot LEO sats flying over say Europe from Mexico, which again Lyn defined his ASAT launches from his homeland. Have you rp'd placing your satellites into anything but LEO orbit? Have you rp'd a space program at all outside of your 5 satellites? Just saying; It's one thing to say you have satellites.. and another to say you have them and they're out of weapons range as soon as a war starts. If you can show me anything at all to indicate that you have previously positioned these satellites as you have claimed without any editing, I will be on your side on the matter and say he can't take them out. On the other hand. I might still be able to as I have kinetic kill vehicles already in space. But I've not engaged you yet and it might not happen.. Sorry Jesbro, but details are what make the world make sense. Less of them would not be better by necessity. Things can also be too simplified. Satellites aren't as complex as you may think. Edited October 11, 2014 by Maelstrom Vortex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triyun Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 No because its never been an obligation to. Its always assumed people have a full sat system for all of RP. Certain satellites such as PNT only perform missions in MEO, most comm sats and EW only are in GEO. If you are going to change the rules you need to have a rule explicitly stating such. You cannot simply make up a new rule Mael. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 (edited) Sounds like you're the one making up new rules as nothing has been agreed to and an assumption is not a rule. It just makes a.. well you should know how that goes by now. Show me where you rp'd launching or even positioning your satellites please. i saw Vektor launch his over the IO. He should also be specific about where he's positioned them. Their positions are not unobservable. My ARES are even specified LEO with known intervals of spacing and are encircling the earth in a sphere. I have shown you my observable toys. I must insist you show me yours to keep the game fair. I must also insist that if you have not specified where your observable toys are then they can't fairly be in play. Basic sandbox rules. Just like you can't draw out a navy a half-a-world away at random. Edited October 11, 2014 by Maelstrom Vortex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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