A Statement from Doomhouse

[Beefspari]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1300728936' post='2672354']
It's well within my rights to refuse anything besides white peace. The only reason I'm not charging reps myself is because I don't believe in them, unless there's a damn good reason they should be paid. Like, for example, when GOONS loses the next war, they should be made to pay reps for all the extortion they've done, plus interest. I imagine that is going to be one large tab when it comes up.
[/quote]
It is within your right to refuse to pay anything. But don't be surprised when you aren't granted peace just because you don't feel like it. And try not to twist too hard when you claim you're being forced into eternal war when your stance literally states you aren't accepting [i][b]any[/b][/i] terms.

We'll talk terms you're imposing on GOONs when we lose.

[ktarthan]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1300728936' post='2672354']
It's well within my rights to refuse anything besides white peace. The only reason I'm not charging reps myself is because I don't believe in them, unless there's a damn good reason they should be paid. Like, for example, when GOONS loses the next war, they should be made to pay reps for all the extortion they've done, plus interest. I imagine that is going to be one large tab when it comes up.
[/quote]
GOONS charging reps: still literally not extortion.

[potato]

[quote name='Henry' timestamp='1300728363' post='2672348']
I didn't avoid a question. There is no love and respect for MK here because you haven't given us a reason to love, respect, or even like you. If you're going to cite it as "one of the many reasons for war" [b]how do you feel now that the anti MK feelings have increased over the past 2 months?[/b] Seems to me like we would be giving you a blank check to start a war whenever you feel like if we agree to your terms.

And no, I wouldn't agree to rolling MK for the same reasons you rolled us. It wouldn't be practical and it would do us more harm than good.
[/quote]

I don't care. Not in the slightest. Especially given the level of the opposition. I was high gov't in a sanctionned alliance and joined MK when they were on NPO's diplomatic blacklist and going head first into a war with the then #1 alliance. Who did everything in their power to kill MK. Shows how much I care about what other people think. As for your feelings, I don't really care either: you're still wrong. I do believe "we don't like you" is a valid CB. And your beloved NPO as used it in the past, albeit with some smokescreen of made up reasons.

And, before you go into it, no, I'm not using Pacifica's actions of the past to justify ours today.

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1300728526' post='2672350']
That opinion of yours is subjective. You can't argue that, [i][b]factually[/b][/i], we were unprovoked, that our attack was unwarranted, or that our reasons are unjustifiable. Obviously we disagree, or we wouldn't've attacked in the first place. You may not like the reasons given, but that doesn't mean everyone agrees.

Trying to claim that our reasons for warring are unacceptable is just not going to fly except for the people on your own side. When does the other side ever hail the CBs used against them?
[/quote]
NPO, and the rest of us, have accepted FAN's entry into this as justified, just not the rest of you. For a short while you were all making a point of hiding behind FAN as if they were the central element to this conflict (they are nowhere close, per your own DoW). Therefore, this war alone disproves the assertion that the opposing side [i]never[/i] views a war against them as justified.

The war was unprovoked. NPO has been quiet for the last two years, and has in that time done nothing to provoke hostilities against it.

The war was unwarranted. NPO has paid for it's past crimes, and they are a thin excuse to raise a new war against them. Pacifica's allies were not even involved, because their allies in the Polar front told them to stay out.

From the above two, the war is unjustifiable. Yes, you have attempted to justify it, but it is impossible to do so, because the war is inherently unjustifiable. This is less a criticism of specific attempts at justification, and more so of the notion that any proper justification even exists.

The entire motive from this conflict was to bring harm to Pacifica. It wasn't to tie them up and help VE, and it wasn't for whatever other convoluted reason you might come up with. This was a war to destroy Pacifica, a war born of paranoia, fear, and raw hatred. That is evident in the terms you offer; This isn't a peripheral front to Polar, you aim specifically to destroy us, and then get a paycheck for your troubles.

You can cram the terms in the nearest bodily orifice.

[Varianz]

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1300722520' post='2672285']
Your top tier is only on your first page? That is what you brought up yes? That your top tier has fought. It looks like it has not fought.
[/quote]
Well first it depends on what you define as a top tier. The 10 nations on the first page are only above 30k NS- 30k NS is generally not considered a top tier, only the mid-tier. Of those, only 4 are above 50k NS, the general cutoff for the "top tier". Of those, 2/4 have fought (not our fault you didn't stagger them), 1 is still in war mode. Now if you look at our pre-war numbers, we had approximately 10 nations above 50k NS. Now we have 4. I'm sure you can connect the dots. Out of our pre-war 10 nations above 50k, only 2/10 haven't fought, (OOC: 1 due to RL problems). If having that one remaining person (Straylight) fight would get us no reps peace, just have Sardonic inform us and Stray will be rolling in a few hours .

Edit:
[quote name='SpiderJerusalem' timestamp='1300724024' post='2672300']
Hiro my dear... You know that I am usually defending and agree with you, but in this instance, you're wrong. Pretty much the entire NSO has fought in this war, so they are not the worst of them, at all

Credit is to be given when credit is due, and NSO should really be given credit here, as opposed to most of the rest
[/quote]
This comment is clearly a trap

Edited March 21, 2011 by Varianz

[Sardonic]

That's delightful HoT, but I think you misunderstand that you have much more reason to want peace than we do. At GOONS we have a very powerful incentive to continue the war to bolster our ranks with new recruits. Our membership's desire for war knows no boundaries. If the war ends, it won't be because we got sick of it. Our respective memberships just simply enjoy war more than the majority of your side (omitting perhaps elements of NPO, NSO, and a few notable members of other alliances warring us). We have the finances to continue as is for quite some time, so it's not a matter of if we get what we want, it's a matter of when.

But I digress, you're just blustering about. Negotiations are under way now, you can't really expect me to believe that you're in this for some ridiculously long haul.

Edited March 21, 2011 by Sardonic

[Beefspari]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1300729660' post='2672366']
The war was unprovoked. NPO has been quiet for the last two years, and has in that time done nothing to provoke hostilities against it.

The war was unwarranted. NPO has paid for it's past crimes, and they are a thin excuse to raise a new war against them. Pacifica's allies were not even involved, because their allies in the Polar front told them to stay out.

From the above two, the war is unjustifiable. Yes, you have attempted to justify it, but it is impossible to do so, because the war is inherently unjustifiable. This is less a criticism of specific attempts at justification, and more so of the notion that any proper justification even exists.
[/quote]

You're still trying to pass off opinion as fact. It doesn't work that way, no matter how many paragraphs you write about it.

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='Varianz' timestamp='1300730033' post='2672374']
Well first it depends on what you define as a top tier. The 10 nations on the first page are only above 30k NS- 30k NS is generally not considered a top tier, only the mid-tier. Of those, only 4 are above 50k NS, the general cutoff for the "top tier". Of those, 2/4 have fought (not our fault you didn't stagger them), 1 is still in war mode. Now if you look at our pre-war numbers, we had approximately 10 nations above 50k NS. Now we have 4. I'm sure you can connect the dots. Out of our pre-war 10 nations above 50k, only 2/10 haven't fought, (OOC: 1 due to RL problems). If having that one remaining person (Straylight) fight would get us no reps peace, just have Sardonic inform us and Stray will be rolling in a few hours .

Edit:

This comment is clearly a trap
[/quote]


I was meaning current top tier which I view as the top 10 nations you have atm, my bad for not being clear enough

I see what you did thar with spider, traps

Edited March 21, 2011 by Hiro Nakara

[Letum]

[quote name='potato' timestamp='1300720957' post='2672264']
And not sanctionning rogues on our allies, editing our ambassador's words, making announcements decrying us and pretending to be an heir to Archon is what you call good will? As I said in an other conversation, it doesn't matter who started it or who did what. You provoked us, we provoked you. You wanted this war, we wanted this war. Here you are.
[/quote]

I'm always amazed that Doomhouse can say these kinds of things with a straight face. Your ability to place mere words, or even worse, a lack of action, on the same level as your relentless aggression over the past year is the sign of the worst kind of spin. You have used your power to advance your national interest in the ways only the worst of bullies can do - that will get you decried, will get you no favors and will get you no good will. If you want to have an amicable relationship with everyone else, stop screwing them over for your own benefit.

Also, from the op:

[quote]The end of silence for fear of persecution.[/quote]

Yeah right.

[ktarthan]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1300729660' post='2672366']
NPO, and the rest of us, have accepted FAN's entry into this as justified, just not the rest of you. For a short while you were all making a point of hiding behind FAN as if they were the central element to this conflict (they are nowhere close, per your own DoW). Therefore, this war alone disproves the assertion that the opposing side [i]never[/i] views a war against them as justified.

The war was unprovoked. NPO has been quiet for the last two years, and has in that time done nothing to provoke hostilities against it.

The war was unwarranted. NPO has paid for it's past crimes, and they are a thin excuse to raise a new war against them. Pacifica's allies were not even involved, because their allies in the Polar front told them to stay out.

From the above two, the war is unjustifiable. Yes, you have attempted to justify it, but it is impossible to do so, because the war is inherently unjustifiable. This is less a criticism of specific attempts at justification, and more so of the notion that any proper justification even exists.

The entire motive from this conflict was to bring harm to Pacifica. It wasn't to tie them up and help VE, and it wasn't for whatever other convoluted reason you might come up with. This was a war to destroy Pacifica, a war born of paranoia, fear, and raw hatred. That is evident in the terms you offer; This isn't a peripheral front to Polar, you aim specifically to destroy us, and then get a paycheck for your troubles.

You can cram the terms in the nearest bodily orifice.
[/quote]
are you available to teach lessons in melodrama? i am writing some teen angst music and need some pointers

[Gibsonator21]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1300728339' post='2672347']
These new days of Bob bring interesting things. Not only do losing alliances dictate the terms given to them (64Digits demanding white peace or eternal war), but now losing alliances get reps.
[/quote]
It's fun to watch them squirm though. I'm sure you're just terrified that six nations (well... only two are actually fighting) are "threatening" eternal war. Must me shaking in your boots.

[flak attack]

[quote name='Varianz' timestamp='1300730033' post='2672374']
Well first it depends on what you define as a top tier. The 10 nations on the first page are only above 30k NS- 30k NS is generally not considered a top tier, only the mid-tier. Of those, only 4 are above 50k NS, the general cutoff for the "top tier". Of those, 2/4 have fought (not our fault you didn't stagger them), 1 is still in war mode. Now if you look at our pre-war numbers, we had approximately 10 nations above 50k NS. Now we have 4. I'm sure you can connect the dots. Out of our pre-war 10 nations above 50k, only 2/10 haven't fought, (OOC: 1 due to RL problems). If having that one remaining person (Straylight) fight would get us no reps peace, just have Sardonic inform us and Stray will be rolling in a few hours .

Edit:

This comment is clearly a trap
[/quote]
50k as a cut off for top tier? Seems quite low. A well built nation shouldn't even have a WRC at that size. I would say it's at least 70k.

[Beefspari]

[quote name='Gibsonator21' timestamp='1300730641' post='2672385']
It's fun to watch them squirm though. I'm sure you're just terrified that six nations (well... only two are actually fighting) are "threatening" eternal war. Must me shaking in your boots.
[/quote]
No, more that they're trying to spin it as us forcing them into eternal war because they don't want to fulfill any terms. Yes, not feeling like paying reps is literally the same thing as being VietFANned.

[Varianz]

[quote name='flak attack' timestamp='1300730718' post='2672386']
50k as a cut off for top tier? Seems quite low. A well built nation shouldn't even have a WRC at that size. I would say it's at least 70k.
[/quote]
I'm working with NSO stats, so I lowered it a bit (we're amazing nation builders, almost as good as Ivan Moldavi, but we stay low to give other alliances a fair chance)- we only have 1 above 70k, so like I said, if him fighting is the key to us getting lighter terms, by all means, give us a call

Edit: of course, then we'll be helping our allies pay, so in the end I guess it's a moot point

Edited March 21, 2011 by Varianz

[Gibsonator21]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1300730892' post='2672390']
No, more that they're trying to spin it as us forcing them into eternal war because they don't want to fulfill any terms. Yes, not feeling like paying reps is literally the same thing as being VietFANned.
[/quote]
They can try and spin it all they want, everyone knows they've been offered terms. Whether they agree with them or not, they've been offered terms. But either way, have fun on the tech raid!

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='Varianz' timestamp='1300730950' post='2672392']
I'm working with NSO stats, so I lowered it a bit (we're amazing nation builders, almost as good as Ivan Moldavi, but we stay low to give other alliances a fair chance)- we only have 1 above 70k, so like I said, if him fighting is the key to us getting lighter terms, by all means, give us a call
[/quote]


What were the terms given to you? I'm curious to know who's been charged what?

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Varianz' timestamp='1300730950' post='2672392']
I'm working with NSO stats, so I lowered it a bit (we're amazing nation builders, almost as good as Ivan Moldavi, but we stay low to give other alliances a fair chance)- we only have 1 above 70k, so like I said, if him fighting is the key to us getting lighter terms, by all means, give us a call
[/quote]
I think half your alliance would have to delete for the proposed 100m amount (Assuming RV vacation) to go lower tbh.

[Varianz]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1300731082' post='2672395']
I think half your alliance would have to delete for the proposed 100m amount (Assuming RV vacation) to go lower tbh.
[/quote]
$100 million is crippling reps and...oh...wait...we can pay that pretty easily...nevermind. I'm not complaining about the number, I expected 5x that tbh.

Edit: the point of my little side convo with Hiro was...something about upper tiers. I've lost track. Carry on with circle arguments.

Edited March 21, 2011 by Varianz

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='Varianz' timestamp='1300731209' post='2672396']
$100 million is crippling reps and...oh...wait...we can pay that pretty easily...nevermind. I'm not complaining about the number, I expected 5x that tbh.
[/quote]


That's not to bad an amount, (cue the HoT even $1 is too much for GONS hatred bile) A rebel Virginia play would have been so much better than 100 mill.

Edited March 21, 2011 by Hiro Nakara

[flak attack]

[quote name='Varianz' timestamp='1300730950' post='2672392']
I'm working with NSO stats, so I lowered it a bit (we're amazing nation builders, almost as good as Ivan Moldavi, but we stay low to give other alliances a fair chance)- we only have 1 above 70k, so like I said, if him fighting is the key to us getting lighter terms, by all means, give us a call
[/quote]
Fair enough

[quote name='Varianz' timestamp='1300731209' post='2672396']
$100 million is crippling reps and...oh...wait...we can pay that pretty easily...nevermind. I'm not complaining about the number, I expected 5x that tbh.
[/quote]
Hmm, expecting 5x that, eh?

I propose we raise the reps to 400m and RV for four months. See how generous we are!

[Varianz]

[quote name='flak attack' timestamp='1300731354' post='2672399']
Hmm, expecting 5x that, eh?

I propose we raise the reps to 400m and RV for four months. See how generous we are!
[/quote]
How about RV and a milk review instad

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1300731318' post='2672398']
That's not to bad an amount, (cue the HoT even $1 is too much for GONS hatred bile) A rebel Virginia play would have been so much better than 100 mill.
[/quote]
No, it's not bad. But if you force RV to write a play as part of terms I won't complain. Please make him include illustrations.

Edited March 21, 2011 by Varianz

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1300731318' post='2672398']
That's not to bad an amount, (cue the HoT even $1 is too much for GONS hatred bile) A rebel Virginia play would have been so much better than 100 mill.
[/quote]
Indeed, perhaps upon his entry into GOONS for the 30 day period we should ask him to write a musical: The Ballard of the purple dove. (It is a legion/peacemode joke)

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1300731634' post='2672403']
Indeed, perhaps upon his entry into GOONS for the 30 day period we should ask him to write a musical: The Ballard of the purple dove. (It is a legion/peacemode joke)
[/quote]


I think that even seeing RV in a GOONS AA tag would be payment enough for me, but a musical play would just be

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='Varianz' timestamp='1300731558' post='2672401']
How about RV and a milk review instad


No, it's not bad. But if you force RV to write a play as part of terms I won't complain. Please make him include [b]illustrations.[/b]
[/quote]

It would have to be MS paint illustrations for maximum affect.

[Varianz]

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1300731863' post='2672405']
It would have to be MS paint illustrations for maximum affect.
[/quote]
Isn't a lumberjack also a traditional part of GOONS artistic creations? Shouldn't that be included too?