The war on Evil.

[Kalasin]

[quote name='Letum' timestamp='1296381272' post='2610951']
MK has a greater % of their alliance in peace mode than we do. Now granted, it is much easier for a smaller alliance to do so (and it wasn't meant to be a comparison), but it should highlight that it is not a very good sign of us being well "prepared" for anything.
[/quote]

Why not? Doesn't it simply indicate that MK is a competent (and war-ready) alliance?

[Ellis]

[quote name='Ragashingo' timestamp='1296380296' post='2610931']
Having not been in the NPO for a number of years myself, I've often wondered how much those longwinded papers of insanity actually affect the NPO's daily operation or its member's behavior. Either I just got luck tonight and got to work with a rare but oddly honest group of NPOers tonight, or the alliance as a whole doesn't put the amount backing behind those documents that you suppose they do.
[/quote]

Granted I haven't been a Pacifican for about six months, but I joined before Karma, and even then Francoism seemed like more of an RP thing, rather than something that we actually consulted for guidance.

[Joe Izuzu]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1296381954' post='2610964']
Why not? Doesn't it simply indicate that MK is a competent (and war-ready) alliance?
[/quote]


LOL, it is perhaps a bit easier to be fully prepped when you are the ones declaring, don't you think?

[Ragashingo]

[quote name='Cyber Nationz' timestamp='1296381479' post='2610955']
U shouldnt have had any reason to.
Why the paranoia.

And if you had the slightest hunch about somebody rolling you.
why didnt you make a DoN on OWF.
[/quote]

There was a very real anti-NPO lean to MKer's statements leading up to the DoW on NPO. It certainly had us over in STA talking. As for why no DoN, I know my alliance doesn't post DoN's at random when we have the slightest hunch that someone doesn't like us. And we've had our share of people who really really don't like us...

[Joe Izuzu]

[quote name='Ellis' timestamp='1296382023' post='2610966']
Granted I haven't been a Pacifican for about six months, but I joined before Karma, and even then Francoism seemed like more of an RP thing, rather than something that we actually consulted for guidance.
[/quote]


I have never read Vlad's treatise on Francoism. Does that make me a bad Pacifican? Shoot, I hope the Praetorian Guard doesn't show up at my palace tonight......

Edited January 30, 2011 by Joe Izuzu

[Kalasin]

[quote name='Joe Izuzu' timestamp='1296382076' post='2610968']
LOL, it is perhaps a bit easier to be fully prepped when you are the ones declaring, don't you think?
[/quote]

...exactly?

[Letum]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1296382273' post='2610972']
...exactly?
[/quote]

Glad we're all in agreement, Comrade.

[Kalasin]

[quote name='Letum' timestamp='1296382929' post='2610981']
Glad we're all in agreement, Comrade.
[/quote]

Stop calling me your comrade. I am not your comrade.

[Letum]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1296382966' post='2610982']
Stop calling me your comrade. I am not your comrade.
[/quote]

But we are of like mind on certain matters, and we currently share a somewhat common cause. What better reason to sit together drinking vodka until we are unable to recognize what time it is?

[Kalasin]

[quote name='Letum' timestamp='1296383094' post='2610984']
But we are of like mind on certain matters, and we currently share a somewhat common cause. What better reason to sit together drinking vodka until we are unable to recognize what time it is?
[/quote]

I'm not fighting for Pacifica or morality or your cause. I don't have a cause. I'm fighting for GATO and once we peace out I'm joining MK and getting in on the fun, as I've said elsewhere.

[Letum]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1296383349' post='2610988']
I'm not fighting for Pacifica or morality or your cause. I don't have a cause. I'm fighting for GATO and once we peace out I'm joining MK and getting in on the fun, as I've said elsewhere.
[/quote]

That's even better! After we are drunk, we can bond over a traditional barfight brawl.

Edited January 30, 2011 by Letum

[Tromp]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1296372848' post='2610770']
Maybe so, but here is a quick math lesson....

Reason 1 + reason 2 + reason 3 + reason 4 [b]doesn't equal a full CB.[/b]


Sorry
[/quote]
What does?

Genuine question here.

[Tromp]

[quote name='Joe Izuzu' timestamp='1296381651' post='2610960']
You can claim that they declared in support of "coalition war", but the fact remains that they had no treaty obligation that required them to hit NV. Whereas NV most certainly did have a treaty obligation to uphold. Also, given that "coalition war" is simply an excuse for any alliance on one "side" to hit any other alliance on the other, NPO taking precautions by sending nations into hippy was simply prudent. Even though we weren't on either side, there was tons of taunting going on about why we weren't declaring, despite the fact we had no legitimate point of entry.
[/quote]
Right. If we're going to talk about legalities here, at least be consistent.
In the legal world, the NPO had ways in which they could enter the ongoing war, most notably via TPF and Legion. The fact that those two didn't change their legal status, that being obliged to go to war for STA and NpO respectively, leaves NPO in the same situation. Let's also not forget that the TPF-NPO treaty is a MDAP. Ofcourse, we all understand that they were being kept out of the war at that point in time to give you lot a chance to militarize, this was obvious to everyone who paid attention as it was happening for all to see. A pre-emption therefor is the logical step for DH to undertake, as it would shift the advantage from you to that of your opponents.
And as Roq mentioned you could have prevented this from happening by publicly declaring neutrality from the conflict. Same goes for TPF and Legion obviously.
Now, for the moment I'm willing to go with you in the thought that you honestly weren't willing to enter this conflict. Can we then expect you to discuss peace with DH? Because you wouldn't want to be supporting the warefforts of the Polar side of things, which is happening right now, would you. In case you do, and then eventually peace out, I will admit that the NPO and its allies [i]truly[/i] didn't want enter the war, and that the judgement of the various actions you and your allies undertook by DH was wrong.

[Ellis]

[quote name='Tromp' timestamp='1296386067' post='2611006']
What does?

Genuine question here.
[/quote]
Traditionally, spying, committing an act of war like raiding or aiding someone you're at war with and not making amends in some way or violating community standards (GW1, the Polar part of Bipolar) I went through all the global wars, and that's what we've got. It sort of surprised me, actually

[Tromp]

[quote name='Ellis' timestamp='1296391087' post='2611048']
Traditionally, spying, committing an act of war like raiding or aiding someone you're at war with and not making amends in some way or violating community standards (GW1, the Polar part of Bipolar) I went through all the global wars, and that's what we've got. It sort of surprised me, actually
[/quote]
Yeah, but I was asking Omniscient1 what he thought would qualify as a CB.

Point being, there is no universal accepted standard for what a CB must be. It is therefore kind of pointless to debate the merits of it, as I may think the CB is 'just', while he thinks it isn't.
I'm kind of curious to see if we can establish some kind of Just War tradition here on Bob, if it doesn't exist already. The next question being if there should be such a thing at all.

[HHAYD]

From the crud storm that I just read through, I noticed five points:

1. Doing nothing is a CB.

2. Maintaining relationship with long-time loyal friends is a CB.

3. Going into peace mode due to the possibility of an anti-NPO alliance wanting to take a side swipe at NPO is a CB.

4. It is okay to punish someone multiple times for the same crime, oh, and crimes that had been paid for are still a CB.

5. Everyone deserves second chances, except for NPO.


Does anyone see any logic in those five points? I don't.

[Charles Stuart]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1296381954' post='2610964']
Why not? Doesn't it simply indicate that MK is a competent (and war-ready) alliance?
[/quote]

No, it just means they were told to before they went to war. Sheesh.

[Tromp]

[quote name='HHAYD' timestamp='1296392642' post='2611057']
Does anyone see any logic in those five points? I don't.
[/quote]
This might be because these 'points' were never argued or are only your selfserving interpretation of reality.

[HHAYD]

[quote name='Tromp' timestamp='1296395076' post='2611076']
This might be because these 'points' were never argued or are only your selfserving interpretation of reality.
[/quote]
I'm afraid you did not read the previous six pages of argument. A couple of GOONS's members stated that NPO should have abandoned all of their friends and that going into peace mode is valid CB.

[lamuella]

if you're reduced to characterizing your opponents as evil, you've lost more than the argument.

[Rocky Horror]

[quote name='The Big Bad' timestamp='1296275187' post='2608542']
Less the war on evil and more the war on stupid. Dumbhouse has attacked out of desperation as those around them began to leave them. Of course now even if they manage to win this war they will have to deal with the what will come because of it. Of all the moves they could have made this was perhaps the worst. Then again that just makes it easier for the rest of Planet Bob.
[/quote]Um...literally no one left the DH sphere of influence in the lead-up to this war. I don't think anyone has moved away from the alliances concerned, except for maybe GOD. You've gone beyond spin and into outright delusion.

[Sardonic]

[quote name='HHAYD' timestamp='1296398827' post='2611100']
I'm afraid you did not read the previous six pages of argument. A couple of GOONS's members stated that NPO should have abandoned all of their friends and that going into peace mode is valid CB.
[/quote]
If that's what you think my argument was about you've missed the point completely. A pity.

[Jocko Homo]

[quote name='HHAYD' timestamp='1296392642' post='2611057']
<snip>
2. Maintaining relationship with long-time loyal friends is a CB.
<snip>
Does anyone see any logic in those five points? I don't.
[/quote]

Actually, Yes. Ever hear of a Gang Injunction?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gang_injunction

It is based on the legal theory that gang activity constitutes a public nuisance that prevents non-gang members from enjoying peace in their communities.

The NPO and their scheming buddies are a nuisance. We simply want peace in our community. There is your legally accepted CB.

[HHAYD]

[quote name='Jocko Homo' timestamp='1296405183' post='2611177']
Actually, Yes. Ever hear of a Gang Injunction?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gang_injunction

It is based on the legal theory that gang activity constitutes a public nuisance that prevents non-gang members from enjoying peace in their communities.
[b]
The NPO and their scheming buddies are a nuisance.[/b] We simply want peace in our community. There is your legally accepted CB.
[/quote]
[quote name='Lamuella' timestamp='1296403176' post='2611149']
[b]if you're reduced to characterizing your opponents as evil[/b], you've lost more than the argument.
[/quote]
Lamuella, meet Jocko Homo. Jocko Homo, meet Lamuella.

Anyways, where was I? If you consider NPO's allies as evil and NPO, why don't go ahead and DoW on every single on of them instead of picking on a single alliance?
[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1296404783' post='2611173']
If that's what you think my argument was about you've missed the point completely. A pity.
[/quote]
You seem to have poor memory, and too lazy to check [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=97900&st=0"]back[/url]. A pity.

Edited January 30, 2011 by HHAYD

[mdnss69]

[quote name='Owned-You' timestamp='1296272419' post='2608425']
[font="Tahoma"]You make a series of claims that are disingenuous at best and outright lies at worst. Your claims, being that somehow Pacifica has reformed itself into a new entity preaching peace, fairness, and growth...What evidence do you have to back this assertion up?
[/quote]

Right, so they're guilty of a crime until proven innocent.

I see how that works.