Believland Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 [quote name='AirMe' timestamp='1293137662' post='2551888'] I think we can all agree....we like when politics happen. [/quote] Let's be honest Politics always happens. They're more fun when they go public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banksy Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 [quote name='Phetion' timestamp='1293137544' post='2551884'] I think it's more the fact that MK et al are so blatantly out to roll Polar, for what reason exactly? [/quote] Why are you out to roll TOP? You see, anyone can jump to conclusions. Yes, we aren't bosom buddies. No, we aren't writing up target lists. There is a difference. [quote name='Phetion' timestamp='1293137935' post='2551893'] So the 'NpOloand' jokes etc weren't really aimed at NpO? It was [i]just[/i] a coincidence heh. [/quote] They weren't started by MK or TOP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaghul Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Phetion' timestamp='1293137544' post='2551884'] I think it's more the fact that MK et al are so blatantly out to roll Polar, for what reason exactly? TOP falls straight into that category too. GOD aren't allying Polar to, essentially, bully another alliance. MK have done. At least that's the way I look at it, and I was probably the most pissed off when I found out this had actually happened. [/quote] Do many in both MK and TOP want to roll Polar? Obviously. But that's far from the or a main reason why we ended up signing a treaty, far more important is the genuine friendship that is there. The mutual animosities towards certain alliances among our membership is just a plus. Things were moving in the direction of a treaty with them long before the current stage was set. Edited December 23, 2010 by Azaghul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phetion Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 [quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1293138302' post='2551900'] Why are you out to roll TOP? You see, anyone can jump to conclusions. Yes, we aren't bosom buddies. No, we aren't writing up target lists. There is a difference. [/quote] I've not seen any anti-TOP propaganda anywhere from us - just quite a few statements that we don't trust them, and really don't want them on our side. Personally I get on really well with Jenko and have done since I was in Kronos. I just don't trust Crymson after the whole STA situation. (Which reminds me, Tyga's post early on in the thread, about egos, the irony was fantastic). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margrave Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 People not behaving themselves? In [i]my [/i]CN? No [i]way[/i]. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banksy Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 [quote name='Phetion' timestamp='1293138622' post='2551908'] I've not seen any anti-TOP propaganda anywhere from us - just quite a few statements that we don't trust them, and really don't want them on our side. Personally I get on really well with Jenko and have done since I was in Kronos. I just don't trust Crymson after the whole STA situation. (Which reminds me, Tyga's post early on in the thread, about egos, the irony was fantastic). [/quote] Exactly. So where has the anti-NpO propaganda from us been? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 [quote name='Phetion' timestamp='1293138622' post='2551908'] I've not seen any anti-TOP propaganda anywhere from us - just quite a few statements that we don't trust them, and really don't want them on our side. Personally I get on really well with Jenko and have done since I was in Kronos. I just don't trust Crymson after the whole STA situation. (Which reminds me, Tyga's post early on in the thread, about egos, the irony was fantastic). [/quote] Because Polar is a lot more reliable than TOP, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phetion Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 [quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1293138463' post='2551902'] Do many in both MK and TOP want to roll Polar? Obviously. But that's far from the or a main reason why we ended up signing a treaty, far more important is the genuine friendship that is there. The mutual animosities towards certain alliances among our membership is just a plus. Things were moving in the direction of a treaty with them long before the current stage was set. [/quote] Rather convenient, at least for you, anyhow. Xiph wanted to make a resounding point regarding TOP and his, our mistrust of them. Not only that, but the way it very clearly appears that TOP have been welcomed into your power sphere for what can easily (perhaps in your opinion it is misconstrued) be seen as fuel to what is already a fire in your movement against Polar. They're a means to an end. We wanted to make a point that we didn't agree with it. I think Xiph was successful in making his point and feelings felt, don't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phetion Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 [quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1293138899' post='2551913'] Because Polar is a lot more reliable than TOP, right? [/quote] Polar have done what exactly since BiPolar to warrant MK's aggression? PB's aggression for that matter? (Besides allying Legion :v) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardonic Posted December 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 [quote name='Phetion' timestamp='1293139044' post='2551919'] We wanted to make a point that we didn't agree with it. I think Xiph was successful in making his point and feelings felt, don't you? [/quote] This is, perhaps, the thing that angers me the most. You discarded our treaty, and indeed our very friendship, to make a political point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leigon Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 I'd just like to put in that this was a very unfortunate situation and that few in GOD, least of all Xiph, enjoyed canceling under those circumstances. But the fact remains that it was unavoidable as soon as that treaty was signed. We in GOD might sometimes seem stubborn or overly vindictive in affairs like these, but we simply won't let us be pushed around and taken for granted. It really is a shame because I, as most of GOD, really enjoyed being allied with you. I hope that in the future, after the next war, when you've maybe seen why we simply won't tolerate a major treaty connecting us to TOP, we will be able to rebuild this relationship. I know that at the moment most of you will probably be too angry at Xiph to make that seem probable, but I hope that in time you might come to understand our decision. And before someone mentions VE and RnR as major treaties: RnR might be allied to IRON but it's a member of SF and I doubt IRON and TOP would've swung to our side by this treaty in any but the most unlikely circumstances. VE might be (almost) in the same position as goons, but it's also our oldest ally and not dircetly allied to MK as far as I know. You sadly lack such a qualifier, being allied to MK you could have averted this, VE had few chances of that. Should you have done this? Meddled in your allies FA? I don't know that's for you to decide and for the future to proof. But with your inaction on an agenda we felt so strongly about, you should have known we wouldn't just sit back and take it. Yes MK treatied them, but there is such a thing as being guilty in the event of default. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 [quote name='Phetion' timestamp='1293139160' post='2551921'] Polar have done what exactly since BiPolar to warrant MK's aggression? PB's aggression for that matter? (Besides allying Legion :v) [/quote] Care to show me where that aggression is shown? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phetion Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 [quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1293138822' post='2551910'] Exactly. So where has the anti-NpO propaganda from us been? [/quote] The second or third post in of the announcement for the treaty, an MK member: [quote name='Bekloppt' timestamp='1292726801' post='2543478'] Good morning, Poland! [/quote] And the second page, a TOP member: [quote name='President Obama' timestamp='1292726945' post='2543507'] Hail the Unholy Alliance! Roll Poland. [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamuella Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 [quote name='Phetion' timestamp='1293139044' post='2551919'] We wanted to make a point that we didn't agree with it. I think Xiph was successful in making his point and feelings felt, don't you? [/quote] He made his feelings felt. In the way that a crying one year old who fills his diaper makes his feelings felt. This was, purely and simply, a tantrum. You cut off a friendship that would have served you well for years to come, in order to send a message to some people who don't seem to have really cared anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banksy Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Phetion' timestamp='1293139506' post='2551929'] The second or third post in of the announcement for the treaty, an MK member: And the second page, a TOP member: [/quote] They are not referring to the NpO and there is nothing to indicate that they are. The first people to bring up the NpO were theAUT and Alterego. Proud MK members EDIT: Here we go, the first mention of "Polandis" by non-MK members: [quote name='Bob Ilyani' timestamp='1292742439' post='2544116'] I wait to see the Polandis response. [/quote] [quote name='Chief Savage Man' timestamp='1292744662' post='2544182'] I'm partial to NpOland myself. [/quote] Edited December 23, 2010 by Banksy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leigon Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 [quote name='Lamuella' timestamp='1293139520' post='2551930'] He made his feelings felt. In the way that a crying one year old who fills his diaper makes his feelings felt. This was, purely and simply, a tantrum. You cut off a friendship that would have served you well for years to come, in order to send a message to some people who don't seem to have really cared anyway. [/quote] It was a tantrum, as a last resort before the cancelation, I think. As far as I can remember the cancelation itself was delivered rather regretfully and sadly. I might be wrong though, it's xiph after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaghul Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 [quote name='Phetion' timestamp='1293139044' post='2551919'] Rather convenient, at least for you, anyhow. Xiph wanted to make a resounding point regarding TOP and his, our mistrust of them. Not only that, but the way it very clearly appears that TOP have been welcomed into your power sphere for what can easily (perhaps in your opinion it is misconstrued) be seen as fuel to what is already a fire in your movement against Polar. They're a means to an end. We wanted to make a point that we didn't agree with it. I think Xiph was successful in making his point and feelings felt, don't you?[/quote] OK, you mistrust TOP. You didn't like the way they acted in Karma (for the record MK wasn't exactly a fan either). That doesn't mean that MK doesn't trust them. You may want to believe that we are only "using them" as a "means to an end" but that is not the case. Yes you "made your point", was it worth the cost of dropping a good ally for you? It was incredibly petty. It's sad that your anger at TOP over some stuff back in Karma trumped your relationship with GOONS. [quote name='Phetion' timestamp='1293139506' post='2551929'] The second or third post in of the announcement for the treaty, an MK member: And the second page, a TOP member: [/quote] I don't see anything about Polar in those statements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leet Guy Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 (edited) [quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1293083967' post='2551221'] The OP...well this week I've seen ODN execute a properly timed counterattack, Sparta declare war stating more or less up front that they have no interest in profiting from it but are interested in "fun", and now GOONS have written a well thought out, reasoned post in which they articulate their position effectively, without silly pictures or attempts at lulz. [/quote] I don't understand why people in this world cannot wrap their head around the notion of groups being able to change for the better. Edited December 23, 2010 by Leet Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Believland Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 [quote name='Phetion' timestamp='1293139160' post='2551921'] Polar have done what exactly since BiPolar to warrant MK's aggression? PB's aggression for that matter? (Besides allying Legion :v) [/quote] Attacking \m/. Giving TOP the go ahead to attack THEIR allies. Oh wait. That wasn't after BiPolar. Wait, so what has TOP done since BiPolar to warrant your aggression? Get real. You're still mad about the way they treated you in Karma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurion Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 [quote name='Believland' timestamp='1293140376' post='2551945'] Attacking \m/. Giving TOP the go ahead to attack THEIR allies. Oh wait. That wasn't after BiPolar. Wait, so what has TOP done since BiPolar to warrant your aggression? Get real. You're still mad about the way they treated you in Karma. [/quote] You might even have an actual point if we were beating the "roll TOP" drums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leet Guy Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 [quote name='Aurion' timestamp='1293140657' post='2551950'] You might even have an actual point if we were beating the "roll TOP" drums. [/quote] Actions speak louder than words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT Jag Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 [quote name='Phetion' timestamp='1293139160' post='2551921'] Polar have done what exactly since BiPolar to warrant MK's aggression? PB's aggression for that matter? (Besides allying Legion :v) [/quote]Well there was the time when members of NpO's government was in an anti-GOONS coalition planning channel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blockers Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 goons whining about 'controlling and callous nature ' lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tautology Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 [quote name='Leet Guy' timestamp='1293140210' post='2551943'] I don't understand why people in this world cannot wrap their head around the notion of groups being able to change for the better.[/quote] Maybe it's because they then have to face up to the notion that groups can also change for the worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardonic Posted December 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 (edited) [quote name='JT Jag' timestamp='1293140821' post='2551953'] Well there was the time when members of NpO's government was in an anti-GOONS coalition planning channel [/quote] Not to defend polar or anything, but in all fairness the polar government involved lost their jobs soon thereafter. [quote name='blockers' timestamp='1293140863' post='2551955'] goons whining about 'controlling and callous nature ' lol [/quote] I'm not sure I follow? We are many things, but we are not controlling. Edited December 23, 2010 by Sardonic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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