The Viridian Entente

[DictatatorDan]

[quote name='Solaris' timestamp='1285971347' post='2471513']
The facts are pretty cut and dry. Your institutional madness, specifically your declaration of war on our ally in an insulting manner, and your arrogance was what betrayed NpO. And it's still eating you away.
[/quote]
[color="#FF0000"]Feel free to justify your betrayal anyway you want to. Still doesn't change the facts.[/color]

[Solaris]

[quote name='DictatatorDan' timestamp='1285971844' post='2471520']
[color="#FF0000"]Feel free to justify your betrayal anyway you want to. Still doesn't change the facts.[/color]
[/quote]We are consistently against policies and acts that can be regarded as retarded. Once you become somethine we oppose, what chance we have but to re-check our opinion of you, as an institution, as "allies, as friends. It's your disrespect that cancelled the treaty, and you're blind not to see the obvious - you betrayed us, not the other way around.

[quote name='wickedj' timestamp='1285969457' post='2471485']
Silly, AUT, dont you know? VE never [i]disbanded[/i] they merely took a [i]hiatus[/i] as they planned to reform all along
[/quote]
We disbanded, but I, amongst other enlightened, were set on return since day -1. Crafty Athens must've had spies in the disbanded VE's communications apparatus to have seen my posts, eh?

Edited October 1, 2010 by Solaris

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1285934264' post='2470972']
Yes, that's right; the mass cancellations didn't start until VE government decided to start campaigning for them.
[/quote]

Keeping in mind I wasn't here, but judging by whats available on the wiki and the like I think that the WotC had way more to do with sponge basically pissing everybody off than anything VE may or may not have done.

Favorite line from the wiki "tick tick tick Ardus"

Edited October 1, 2010 by TypoNinja

[Reptyler]

[quote name='wickedj' timestamp='1285969457' post='2471485']
Silly, AUT, dont you know? VE never [i]disbanded[/i] they merely took a [i]hiatus[/i] as they planned to reform all along
[/quote]
Oh snap, I thought we had this conversation fifty times already.

Yeah, we did. But for the unenlightened: we disbanded. It happened. Smooth made a silly argument once about how it's [i]kind of like we never disbanded[/i] because most of the savvy ones wanted to reform as soon as the chance presented, and pundits have used that as ammunition ever since. Here on Planet Bob, any political misstep or communications error will cost you for about 5 years, so that argument will be usable for another 20 months or so, I think.

And for those still bitter about the WotC, if an ally starts acting very hostile and tells you to "Go f*** yourself", and you don't drop them, you're a tool, and you have my pity.

Edited October 1, 2010 by Reptyler

[Prodigal Moon]

I like that VE is treatied to GOONS while also being the protector of Celestial Being, whose wiki starts off saying:

[quote]Celestial Being is an alliance of like minded individuals, hereby referred to as Chosen Ones, with two goals in mind. To help its allies, and to help people being raided.[/quote]

Hyporcisy? Maybe not. Completely incoherent statement of values? I'd say so.

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='Prodigal Moon' timestamp='1285974570' post='2471574']
I like that VE is treatied to GOONS while also being the protector of Celestial Being, whose wiki starts off saying:



Hyporcisy? Maybe not. Completely incoherent statement of values? I'd say so.
[/quote]

No, not an incoherant statement of values. I hate quoting myself, but please read and understand this excerpt from a post of mine a few pages back:

[quote]Also, Viridia has and will continue to be consistent with our attitude and ideology. Those of you who say we were at the forefront of the anti tech raiding movement, guess what? We allowed tech raiding for quite a while. We allowed tech raiding at the time of our reformation when we declared on GOONS. We have always had more allies that tech raid then those that do not as well. Surprising right? Not really. What you perceive as opposing tech raiding or being moralistic is actually just us formulating opinions based upon reason, and that facet of our culture will never change. When someone does something ridiculous, we have a problem with it. If a practice is objectively unreasonable, we have a problem with it. If the incidents everyone is crying about are just normal day to day alliance operations, then you will see the type of response that you have from us here. [/quote]

Now, as I have explained in a few QnAs far before our treaty with GOONS or our protection of CB, Viridia's pragmatic and rational ideology dictates that we believe raiding in a reasonable manner is a valid practice, and we also believe that reasonable efforts to limit raiding are just as equally acceptable. CB goes about their efforts to limit raiding in a rational and non antagonistic fashion, and despite popular belief, GOONS raiding methods are in no way out of the mainstream as a general point. Both, in our eyes, are consistent with tradition on this planet and within the bounds of reason, and our approval of each is consistent with our ideals and personal traditions as noted in my above quote.

Edited October 1, 2010 by Il Impero Romano

[DictatatorDan]

[quote name='Solaris' timestamp='1285972662' post='2471531']
We are consistently against policies and acts that can be regarded as retarded. Once you become somethine we oppose, what chance we have but to re-check our opinion of you, as an institution, as "allies, as friends. It's your disrespect that cancelled the treaty, and you're blind not to see the obvious - you betrayed us, not the other way around.


We disbanded, but I, amongst other enlightened, were set on return since day -1. Crafty Athens must've had spies in the disbanded VE's communications apparatus to have seen my posts, eh?
[/quote]
[color="#FF0000"]The only thing that VE is consistent in doing, is sucking the teet of those that are in power regardless of their ethics. First the Hegemony, and now the lulz alliances. I doubt the Entente would be able to surivive losing a major war.[/color]

[President Obama]

[quote name='DictatatorDan' timestamp='1285975851' post='2471616']
[color="#FF0000"]The only thing that VE is consistent in doing, is sucking the teet of those that are in power regardless of their ethics. First the Hegemony, and now the lulz alliances. I doubt the Entente would be able to surivive losing a major war.[/color]
[/quote]
Because obviously they've never been beat down or fought a war against a bigger opponent..... oh wait.

By leaving The Initiative at the height of its power it clearly was just sucking up to it or something.

[Prodigal Moon]

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1285975033' post='2471591']
No, not an incoherant statement of values. I hate quoting myself, but please read and understand this excerpt from a post of mine a few pages back:



Now, as I have explained in a few QnAs far before our treaty with GOONS or our protection of CB, Viridia's pragmatic and rational ideology dictates that we believe raiding in a reasonable manner is a valid practice, and we also believe that reasonable efforts to limit raiding are just as equally acceptable. CB goes about their efforts to limit raiding in a rational and non antagonistic fashion, and despite popular belief, GOONS raiding methods are in no way out of the mainstream as a general point. Both, in our eyes, are consistent with tradition on this planet and within the bounds of reason, and our approval of each is consistent with our ideals and personal traditions as noted in my above quote.
[/quote]
So I guess I was wrong then. Your values aren't incoherent. They're just not strong enough for any but the most extreme actions to conflict with them..

[John Michaels]

[quote name='Prodigal Moon' timestamp='1285976498' post='2471636']
So I guess I was wrong then. Your values aren't incoherent. They're just not strong enough for any but the most extreme actions to conflict with them..
[/quote]
Pretty much.

[Bergerland]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1285931688' post='2470950']
VE is just one more case of alliances who used NPO for protection and took part in their crimes just to abandon the ship when it wasn't profitable anymore.
[/quote]
I've been in VE for over 2 years and let me tell you that the majority of the membership was screaming bloody murder about being allied to NPO. It got to the point where government had to make an announcement about posting not posting anti-NPO rhetoric in the public sections of our forums due to completely rational fears.

VE used the protection of NPO to protect ourselves from...well, NPO. We wanted to see it burn and we did. As Ardus himself said:

[QUOTE]I meant every word about "Pax Pacifica" and every pro-Pacifican propaganda bit I generated up until the conclusion of the Green Civil War. After that, I swore to see the three parties directly involved burn: GGA, GOONS, and NPO. In what order was unnecessary. Siding with some to see the others fall from power was implicit in the enormity of the task.[/QUOTE]

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='DictatatorDan' timestamp='1285975851' post='2471616']
[color="#FF0000"]The only thing that VE is consistent in doing, is sucking the teet of those that are in power regardless of their ethics. First the Hegemony, and now the lulz alliances. I doubt the Entente would be able to surivive losing a major war.[/color]
[/quote]

Hey slugger, if you actually think that, you have absolutely no idea what goes on around here or who does what. But seeing as you only post angry things in red for attention, I'm sure you have no desire to really know what your talking about.

Edited October 2, 2010 by Il Impero Romano

[Cobalt]

[quote name='Prodigal Moon' timestamp='1285976498' post='2471636']
So I guess I was wrong then. Your values aren't incoherent. They're just not strong enough for any but the most extreme actions to conflict with them..
[/quote]

I know tech raiding is the newest thing for everyone to get their panties in a wad over - but I don't see why its become such an issue that we don't care about it at all. We're not pro-raiding or anti-raiding and therefore have no issues with having friends on both sides of that divide.

On the same note, I can't seem to find any documentation on most alliances' values regarding tomato-base vs vinegar-base barbecue. I find this to be an extremely important divide and I demand that everyone take a pro-tomato or pro-vinegar stance or else I will assume your alliance is full of <<<pick a few as they suit your taste: evil, immoral, hypocritical, cowardly, untrustworthy, smelly, moralist>>> individuals who actively oppose happiness.

[Joseph Black]

This is a response to all who quoted me, I was looking for a good discussion, as I said in my past post. It was for nothing more than entertainment, I'm not an expert by any standard or stretch of the imagination, Il Impero Romano was kind enough to give me a VE history lesion on IRC. If anybody else is interested in telling old "war stories" or about "back in the day" feel free to PM me; I love to learn and there is only so much wiki can teach someone about history.

[DictatatorDan]

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1285979186' post='2471690']
Hey slugger, if you actually think that, you have absolutely no idea what goes on around here or who does what. But seeing as you only post angry things in red for attention, I'm sure you have no desire to really know what your talking about.
[/quote]

[color="#FF0000"]Actually, my point is pretty much spot on. VE has a well documented history of opurtunistic cowardice, as well as being a parasite to those in power to acheive their own objectives.

Your former leadership speaks the best of you.[/color]

[quote]I meant every word about "Pax Pacifica" and every pro-Pacifican propaganda bit I generated up until the conclusion of the Green Civil War. After that, I swore to see the three parties directly involved burn: GGA, GOONS, and NPO. In what order was unnecessary. [i]Siding with some to see the others fall from power was implicit in the enormity of the task.[/i][/quote]

[Bergerland]

[quote name='DictatatorDan' timestamp='1285980698' post='2471719']
[color="#FF0000"]Actually, my point is pretty much spot on. VE has a well documented history of opurtunistic cowardice, as well as being a parasite to those in power to acheive their own objectives.

Your former leadership speaks the best of you.[/color]
[/quote]

And our objectives happened to be undermining who was in power and seeing them burn. Funny how that works.

Edited October 2, 2010 by Bergerland

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='DictatatorDan' timestamp='1285980698' post='2471719']
[color="#FF0000"]Actually, my point is pretty much spot on. VE has a well documented history of opurtunistic cowardice, as well as being a parasite to those in power to acheive their own objectives.

Your former leadership speaks the best of you.[/color]
[/quote]

Well, I'll just simply say no, your wrong. If you want to know why your wrong, look at facts, read this thread, and think critically instead of just randomly posting angry things like you always do. It's pointless to type the same things over and over, and it's not really possibly to have an argument with someone like you who has no care for how things may actually be in reality.

Listen, I'm not trying to be mean, and I thought about passing your comments by as always but I figured might as well try to help you out, but you may want to consider the fact that you go from thread to thread posting random angry things and seldom does anyone ever respond to you. Know why? Because unlike some other people who are known for being negative and using colored text, its rather obvious that you never know what your talking about, and are simply yelling for attention. Spread your wings and try to get involved, tone it down a bit and get the story on what your saying instead of just saying it. I promise you will see much better results in your quest to fill that "look at me!" void when you conduct yourself in a manner that people actually find worthy of discourse.

Keep your chin up, big guy. Everything will be alright.

[Prodigal Moon]

[quote name='Tungsten' timestamp='1285979211' post='2471694']I know tech raiding is the newest thing for everyone to get their panties in a wad over - but I don't see why its become such an issue that we don't care about it at all. We're not pro-raiding or anti-raiding and therefore have no issues with having friends on both sides of that divide.[/quote]
Well, accurately or (apparently) not, I think most can agree that VE has traditionally held a reputation as an alliance that greatly values peace, diplomacy, mercy, etc. There is no significant alliance outside of GOONS and their allies that runs counter to that image more. So when VE signs a treaty with GOONS, it really makes one question whether there are any alliances out there that have strong principles and are willing to make stands based on them. Or is everyone out there taking the path of least resistance, signing with whoever comes along and shows interest because they're "decent guys" (or whatever) and you have some friends in common, or because it's politically expedient.

[quote]On the same note, I can't seem to find any documentation on most alliances' values regarding tomato-base vs vinegar-base barbecue. I find this to be an extremely important divide and I demand that everyone take a pro-tomato or pro-vinegar stance or else I will assume your alliance is full of <<<pick a few as they suit your taste: evil, immoral, hypocritical, cowardly, untrustworthy, smelly, moralist>>> individuals who actively oppose happiness[/quote]
Perhaps when viewed from outside this world raiding doesn't seem that serious. But [i]as a nation ruler[/i] I certainly take issue with the practice of marauding forces looting and killing citizens of peaceful, demilitarized nations. It amazes me that so many others do not.

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Prodigal Moon' timestamp='1285982331' post='2471744']
Well, accurately or (apparently) not, I think most can agree that VE has traditionally held a reputation as an alliance that greatly values peace, diplomacy, mercy, etc. There is no significant alliance outside of GOONS and their allies that runs counter to that image more. So when VE signs a treaty with GOONS
[/quote]
Excuse me, we have an entire board dedicated to mercy.

[DictatatorDan]

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1285981667' post='2471734']
Well, I'll just simply say [b]no[/b], [b]you[/b]r wrong. If you want to know why your wrong, look at facts, read this thread, and think critically instead of just randomly posting angry things like you always do. It's pointless to type the same things over and over, and it's not really possibly to have an argument with someone like you who has no care for how things may actually be in reality.

Listen, I'm not trying to be mean, and I thought about passing your comments by as always but I figured might as well try to help you out, but you may want to consider the fact that you go from thread to thread posting random angry things and seldom does anyone ever respond to you. Know why? Because unlike some other people who are known for being negative and using colored text, its rather obvious that you never know what your talking about, and are simply yelling for attention. Spread your wings and try to get involved, tone it down a bit and get the story on what your saying instead of just saying it. I promise you will see much better results in your quest to fill that "look at me!" void when you conduct yourself in a manner that people actually find worthy of discourse.

Keep your chin up, big guy. Everything will be alright.
[/quote]

[color="#FF0000"]This is a rather verbose way of stating absolutely nothing of any value. If I am wrong, then the burden of proof is on you to prove me wrong.[/color]

[quote]And our objectives happened to be undermining who was in power and seeing them burn. Funny how that works. [/quote] [color="#FF0000"]The two things I expect from VE. Opportunistic Cowardice, and Delusional Moralism.[/color]

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='DictatatorDan' timestamp='1285983273' post='2471754']
[color="#FF0000"]This is a rather verbose way of stating absolutely nothing of any value. If I am wrong, then the burden of proof is on you to prove me wrong.[/color]
[/quote]

No actually, as the one presenting a point it is in fact up to you to justify it, it is not up to others to prove you wrong.

Think how stupid it would be if it worked the way you wanted, I could walk around telling everyone I'm the sole arbiter of law and justice on CN and its up to you to prove me wrong.

[Caliph]

[quote name='Prodigal Moon' timestamp='1285982331' post='2471744']
Well, accurately or (apparently) not, I think most can agree that VE has traditionally held a reputation as an alliance that greatly values peace, diplomacy, mercy, etc. ...
[/quote]
You clearly must know a different VE than I do. These are not qualities I associate with VE.

[Caliph]

[quote name='Cornelius' timestamp='1285961245' post='2471305']
The reasoning behind allying with GGA was rather simple: 1. they were allied to NpO, and thus we couldn't attack them and 2. we wanted to be back on Green, even if only half the alliance was allowed there. The other half mostly stayed on blue in thanks to NpO, again. If getting back on Green wasn't so important to us, we would've reformed on blue and had nothing to do with the GGA. Besides, GGA ended up destroying itself.

[/quote]
GGA did end up destroying itself, but that doesn't change the fact you and your ilk were spouting off at the mouth against GOONS and the rest of the Unjust for making your disband, when your silence regarding GGA's role in that even was so silent it was defeaning. Calling for the destruction of some of those who helped roll you in that war is understandable, but coming back directly allied to one of them and remaining very silent on their roll in that same war reaks of hypocricy.

[Cobalt]

[quote name='DictatatorDan' timestamp='1285983273' post='2471754']
[color="#FF0000"]The two things I expect from VE. Opportunistic Cowardice, and Delusional Moralism.[/color]
[/quote]

Awww, you're so cute when you're slinging mud.

[Argin]

[quote name='Prodigal Moon' timestamp='1285982331' post='2471744']
Well, accurately or (apparently) not, I think most can agree that VE has traditionally held a reputation as an alliance that greatly values peace, diplomacy, mercy, etc.[/quote]
Then why can people not also agree that VE has traditionally had unpopular/"immoral" friends, and by traditionally I mean during it's entire course of existence? The truth behind it is people support us when we're on the same side of the political spectrum and when some change occurs we become the spawn of the devil. Isn't it kind of sad that the most discussion that occurs on these boards about VE is always other people trying to tell VE what it's history and it's values are? Don't like us? That is fine, but don't go around telling me what I am, I have more insight into that then you ever could.

[quote name='Prodigal Moon' timestamp='1285982331' post='2471744']
it really makes one question whether there are any alliances out there that have strong principles and are willing to make stands based on them. Or is everyone out there taking the path of least resistance, signing with whoever comes along and shows interest because they're "decent guys" (or whatever) and you have some friends in common, or because it's politically expedient.[/quote]
One of our most consistent "principles" is the belief that our allies should be able to do what they wish because they have their own sovereign rights. At the same time we expect the same respect in return so please don't tell us that we should force our allies to act as we do because frankly that principle is yours, not ours.