Protection Rescinded

[Beefspari]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1285696772' post='2466998']
[color="#0000FF"]BLEU[/color]
[/quote]
I'm glad to see you back on the side of the fence that's firmly against GOONS and everything we stand for. I was getting worried for a while when you were agreeing with us in some of those other threads.

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='Timmehhh' timestamp='1285696547' post='2466993']
This thread he actually that his own alliance "COJ" was unable to protect the alliance he swore to protect, see Descendent's post.

Schattenman is widely known for blowing up his own alliance Browncoats, he allowed them to be destroyed in a back-room deal to stay out of the GATO One vision war. So this thread is kinda ironic.
[/quote]

I'm still trying to figure out how this has to do with 1vision war though. I think it was just a careless personal attack on Schatt in an attempt to take the spotlight off of the fact that GOONS just raided a protected AA.

I'm pretty sure raiding a protected AA is looked down on by almost everyone. If you think back to the Red Raiding Safari, which is mentioned in the OP, the main argument was NPO couldn't protect the nations they were wanting to, because it wasn't an agreement with a specific AA. Are we now deciding we will hit protectorates as long as their protectors don't have the power to take do something about it? I don't know about you, but I think that's a very dangerous precedent to start. You never know when you can end up on bottom.

Edited September 28, 2010 by Omniscient1

[Heft]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1285695975' post='2466984']
No, what he means is:

A USSR nation was attacked in a valid tech raid by GOONS.
[/quote]
Yea, that statement sure does make sense.

The response to this thread is certainly predictable. "It's okay they can do what they want now go away."

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1285697014' post='2467000']
I'm glad to see you back on the side of the fence that's firmly against GOONS and everything we stand for. I was getting worried for a while when you were agreeing with us in some of those other threads.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]I only ever said Methrage was acting like an idiot. I never said I liked GOONS or agreed with its policies. Your raiding practices have always irked me severely. What was done to USSR, is a great example of why. Granted the alliance would not have likely succeeded, I'll give that much, but it doesn't change the fact that your relentless hostility and unreasonable behavior is what drove them from this world. That is eight less rulers. Eight rulers that this world needed.[/color]

Edited September 28, 2010 by Rebel Virginia

[ktarthan]

What ever happened to "Reasons have been given in private"?

edit:
[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1285697061' post='2467001']
I'm still trying to figure out how this has to do with 1vision war though. I think it was just a careless personal attack on Schatt in an attempt to take the spotlight off of the fact that GOONS just raided a protected AA.
[/quote]
I'm sorry if you think this thread is about GOONS raiding USSR, but it's clearly a notice of rescindment of protection. The GOONS raid on USSR was over a month ago, so I don't see how it is relevant.

Edited September 28, 2010 by ktarthan

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='ktarthan' timestamp='1285697512' post='2467010']
edit: double post
[/quote]
What a coincidence! It happens to take a month for a nation to go away forever.

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='ktarthan' timestamp='1285697273' post='2467006']
What ever happened to "Reasons have been given in private"?

edit:

I'm sorry if you think this thread is about GOONS raiding USSR, but it's clearly a notice of rescindment of protection. The GOONS raid on USSR was over a month ago, so I don't see how it is relevant.
[/quote]

I thought your own people just said "GOOONS is mentioned more times than USSR."? Fair enough though. The thread is also not about the 1vision war or Schatt's attempts to keep Browncoats out of it. Anyway, I think we can all agree to just say it's bad to see an alliance disband.

[Descendent]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1285697000' post='2466999']
If FOK or any other alliance is incapable of stopping its members from attacking protected alliances, then protectors can be no more capable. Most alliances are able to fulfill the minimals of their governance, so it's not usually a matter of pro-active protection. If you would like me to start proactively protecting alliances, I guess there are plenty of alliances that would like to start attacking raiders to preemptively stop raids.
[/quote]

Well; then I'll guess you start organizing those alliances then and start doing something about those mean techraiders.
You'll have my full support; It'll make CN a lot more exiting!

Make it a bloc and call it 'The justice Friends'; that'll make you Major Glory!

[img]http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs202.snc1/6929_156173995711_156173005711_3470025_4659930_n.jpg[/img]

Edited September 28, 2010 by Descendent

[Timmmehhh]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1285697000' post='2466999']
If FOK or any other alliance is incapable of stopping its members from attacking protected alliances, then protectors can be no more capable. Most alliances are able to fulfill the minimals of their governance, so it's not usually a matter of pro-active protection. If you would like me to start proactively protecting alliances, I guess there are plenty of alliances that would like to start attacking raiders to preemptively stop raids.
[/quote]
This makes no sense. FOK raiding is strictly monitored, and I can't recall the incident. You provide no data, no screen shots, the alliance you claim who was being raided does not exist. Why didn't you bring it up while they were being raided? You decided to left them out in the cold and opened a topic more than a month later? Your story doesn't make any sense.

[ktarthan]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1285697664' post='2467014']
What a coincidence! It happens to take a month for a nation to go away forever.
[/quote]
Well then I guess I was wrong; this thread [i]is[/i] about attacking GOONS.

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1285697746' post='2467015']
I thought your own people just said "GOOONS is mentioned more times than USSR."? Fair enough though. The thread is also not about the 1vision war or Schatt's attempts to keep Browncoats out of it. Anyway, I think we can all agree to just say it's bad to see an alliance disband.
[/quote]
My apologies, Omniscient; go back to attacking GOONS if you wish, that actually is Schatt's purpose for this thread. My previous correction stands - we didn't [i]just[/i] attack USSR, although the timing of that attack and this thread are [i]highly[/i] suspicious. (I'll stay away from your comments on 1vision and Browncoats, as I don't know much about it!)

edit: speeling r gud

Edited September 28, 2010 by ktarthan

[BaQuabah]

Hi I am a member of GOONS and am also an Internet Bully. When I play games I try to beat other players.

[NLights]

[quote name='BaQuabah' timestamp='1285698389' post='2467027']
When I play games I try to beat other players.
[/quote]

Fine print: they just can't try to beat me or they'll have to pay me money.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Timmehhh' timestamp='1285696547' post='2466993']
This thread he actually that his own alliance "COJ" was unable to protect the alliance he swore to protect, see Descendent's post.

Schattenman is widely known for blowing up his own alliance Browncoats, he allowed them to be destroyed in a back-room deal to stay out of the GATO One vision war. So this thread is kinda ironic.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]That happened over two years ago, and I think Schatt has long since redeemed himself for that one mistake. And considering that he's gained more experience since then, I think you're simply digging into the past to find to dirt to discredit Schatt for his political opposition to GOONS' sphere rather than making a valid criticism.[/color]

[quote name='BaQuabah' timestamp='1285698389' post='2467027']
When I play games I try to beat other players.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]OOC: You truly are oversimplifying this. Considering that there is no winner in a game like CN, as it is continuous and ever changing, there is not much to win in the traditional sense. All that is to be gained is political power, and that done through alliance wars and diplomacy, and not through raiding. There is absolutely nothing to gain or win from beating down on new players for little to no reason. So don't give me this "but I'm trying to win" rubbish. You're simply a bully. That's all there is to it.[/color]

[Chairman Meow]

I for one am deeply saddened that U.S.S.R. is no more.

Alexander Rococo, the former leader, seemed to be a most agreeable sort of chap. It's a shame that Schatt and the rest of CoJ couldn't control him.

[IMG]http://i55.tinypic.com/2rfueso.jpg[/IMG]

I wonder if CoJ paid reps for that?




[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1285697077' post='2467003']
[color="#0000FF"]..but it doesn't change the fact that your relentless hostility and unreasonable behavior is what drove them from this world. That is eight less rulers. Eight rulers that this world needed.[/color]
[/quote]

GOONS were responsible for wiping Alexander Rococo from the face of Bob? That's quite an interesting interpretation.

[nippy]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1285695205' post='2466970']
GOONS then rush to their computers in mass numbers hoping to drown out all their exposed bad deeds with mindless drivel, in an attempt to distract people from the alliance they caused the disbandment of.
[/quote]

That is not proper haiku format.

Also, I find it hilarious to blame us that an entire alliance you claimed protection of decided that hanging out with you was boring enough to commit account suicide, Schatt. Good job introducing them to the ways of the world there, buddy. Did I really just read "GOONS were messing with these guys and we decided to announce protection over them but it was too late...the damage was already done"? Successful protectorates involve BENEFITS TO BEING YOUR PROTECTORATE. The only one that benefited from the protectorate was you, as it provided yet another reason for you to push the 'start new topic' button.

Edited September 28, 2010 by nippy

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='BaQuabah' timestamp='1285698389' post='2467027']
Hi I am a member of GOONS and am also an Internet Bully. When I play games I try to beat other players.
[/quote]

[ooc] All games have rules. When I meet to play B-ball with some friends we all understand that I'm not going to slam someone's face on the concrete just to take the ball away from them. Even sometimes when rules aren't applied there is a concept of being a good sport. In most situations if you can't play by the rules or exhibit good sportsmanship you aren't allowed to come back and play. [/ooc]

[ktarthan]

[quote name='Chairman Meow' timestamp='1285699461' post='2467042']
I for one am deeply saddened that U.S.S.R. is no more.

Alexander Rococo, the former leader, seemed to be a most agreeable sort of chap. It's a shame that Schatt and the rest of CoJ couldn't control him.

I wonder if CoJ paid reps for that?
[/quote]
It saddens me to see that shinpaku alliance is no longer with us on Bob. Even if CoJ did pay reps, as Schatt has said, it makes no difference to a nation who has already been driven to destruction by raids.

[nippy]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1285699665' post='2467048']
[ooc] All games have rules. When I meet to play B-ball with some friends we all understand that I'm not going to slam someone's face on the concrete just to take the ball away from them. Even sometimes when rules aren't applied there is a concept of being a good sport. In most situations if you can't play by the rules or exhibit good sportsmanship you aren't allowed to come back and play. [/ooc]
[/quote]

Hockey has 'enforcers' whose sole purpose it is to break the rules by fighting. Just sayin'.

[dalstrs]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1285699665' post='2467048']
[ooc] All games have rules. When I meet to play B-ball with some friends we all understand that I'm not going to slam someone's face on the concrete just to take the ball away from them. Even sometimes when rules aren't applied there is a concept of being a good sport. In most situations if you can't play by the rules or exhibit good sportsmanship you aren't allowed to come back and play. [/ooc]
[/quote]

Your friends are weak. My friends and I play prison rules. If you don't want your face slammed on the concrete then you need to stop them or go play on another playground.

[Bloodjewel]

I still haven't the slightest idea why raiding is "bad". The main cause for nation's disappearing is a lack of interest. This disinterest is caused by simply being bored, boredom caused by a lack of interaction with other nations. Raiding is simply the best way to keep interest flowing. The other ways nations are integrated within the community includes alliance spam to bring nations into the fold of an alliance. This mass spam causes new nations to disregard all messages and the warnings they contain against becoming a target for raiding. Thus I submit that alliance spam is worse than raiding for keeping nations from disappearing.

[Cobalt]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1285689704' post='2466878']

When GOONS and several allies began their Red Safari to attack uninvolved unaligned nations as a tool for some cheap masturbatory thrills, Cult of Justitia contacted as many as we thought able to try to assist them, and mostly to prevent their inevitable deletion. In doing so, we stumbled upon the micro-alliance U.S.S.R. which had been attacked prior to the Safari, fought back, and was in the middle of getting ground into dust for daring to protect their own. However, we offered them help, and we would not retract that offer over something as petty as an oversight on our part.

Once we negotiated an end to the war between U.S.S.R. and GOONS, I issued a unilateral protection of the AA. Two of the nations joined CoJ, up to 8 remained on the U.S.S.R. AA. Sadly, protection and aid are quite meaningless to nations whose rulers have already made the decision to abandon their nations--a logical decision in their situation, before we intervened--and within a week or so all but one of the nations had ceased to exist. Miristan was active after the war with GOONS, then he was raided by FOK, and then by GOONS again. Despite an announcement here, despite an entry on the wiki, despite any rules, despite any "do not raid" list at GOONS forum. He was offered reps by GOONS which were withdrawn after 2 days, 3 at most, then resubmitted several days later with the reason "lol."

But once again, reps haven't any use for a nation whose ruler has made the logical decision not to come around again. And why should Kazanait have come around anymore? In his experience joining an alliance of 10 nations did not stop techraids or allow him the opportunity to prosper, a well-publicized protectorate didn't stop techraids or give him a chance to prosper.

None of the things that we tell nations to do to avoid war and grow worked for Miristan, because to some people these formalities are [i]not[/i] roadblocks to attacking aligned, protected nations without cause, rather, they are reasons to do it [i]anyway[/i] with the knowledge it'll just cost a top-tier nation in their alliance some chumpchange. Because of this, today we are less 7 or 8 nations; it is a loss we all bear as our world slowly shrivels up.

The alliance U.S.S.R. no longer exists; therefore, Cult of Justitia rescinds protection of that alliance affiliation.

Farewell, Miristan.

Schattenmann
Presbyter, Cult of Justitia
[/quote]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1285689704' post='2466878']

When GOONS and several allies began ... U.S.S.R. and GOONS ... list at GOONS forum. He was offered reps by GOONS
[/quote]


[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1285689704' post='2466878']
GOONS GOONS GOONS GOONS
[/quote]

You must spend a fortune on cleaning services. God knows the combination of your bleeding heart and crazed obsession with GOONS must result in some truly epic stains. Hopefully you don't have wall to wall carpeting.

[Xellos]

Back into character and onto topic with thee.

Your warn levels won't like it otherwise.

[Earogema]

See Grub? You could have attacked GOONS. I mean, they're MUCH more adamant about their tech raiding than we are, but nooooooooooo.

[the rebel]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1285689704' post='2466878']
Despite an announcement here, despite an entry on the wiki, despite any rules, despite any "do not raid" list at GOONS forum. He was offered reps by GOONS which were withdrawn after 2 days, 3 at most, then resubmitted several days later with the reason "lol."[/quote]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1285691475' post='2466910']
We did care, I sent the reps myself for the times goons mistakenly attacked them, I only rescinded them because they were obviously not going to be accepted, but offered them again in good faith. Prior to the protection they were fair game.[/quote]

Wait let me get it right if you think its acceptable to cancel aid after a couple of days because they obviously didnt want it instead of leaving it the full 10 days till expire, by logic that means its acceptable for me to wipe 3mill off my reps each time it doesnt get accepted after a couple of days and cancel offer as you obviously dont want the reps... If you say no then you live by double standards

[Hereno]

While it's sad to see any alliance cease to exist, and even moreso to see rulers abandon their nations, I don't think it's very appropriate to turn this disbandment notice into another GOONS thread. Sometimes, alliances just weren't meant to be, and I'd imagine that if your alliance disbands after one small-scale war which actually gains you a protector, you probably weren't meant to be.

That said, RIP USSR.