GOONS DoW Announcement

[LeonidasRexII]

[quote name='mrwuss' timestamp='1284516108' post='2454242']
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[/quote]

I don't think you have to. In this case if there was as much evidence as Pez said there was wouldn't expulsion have been warranted? Then whoever would've been free to spy as much as they wanted. The break down for me here was that a spy mission by another alliance was even allowed. How can any STA member trust their leadership now?

[Bavaricar]

The real problem here is the MK, and all alliances that wield their power like we see it on display here. They learn just a little too well from their past masters. It's a sad cycle.

Noble effort, the rebel.

Edited September 15, 2010 by Bavaricar

[Choson]

[quote name='the rebel' timestamp='1284516315' post='2454249']
Allowing spy attacks before consulting me isnt a charge you're right as i had already been sentanced, anyways had enough of running around in circles. Ive said all i have to say on the matter.
[/quote]
They didn't have to consult you about jack squat. They had probable cause. According to my country's Law dictionary, probable cause is:

[quote]information sufficient to warrant a prudent person's belief that the wanted individual had committed a crime (for an arrest warrant) or that evidence of a crime or contraband would be found in a search[/quote]
They were protecting their best interests, their alliance.

Edited September 15, 2010 by Choson

[SirWilliam]

[quote name='Bavaricar' timestamp='1284516524' post='2454255']
The real problem here is the MK, and all alliances that wield their power like we see it on display here. They learn just a little too well from their past masters. It's a sad cycle.

Noble effort, the rebel.
[/quote]

How dare MK honor a sensible request from a valued ally.

Point poorly made, Bavaricar.

[Beefspari]

[quote name='LeonidasRexII' timestamp='1284516383' post='2454251']
I don't think you have to. In this case if there was as much evidence as Pez said there was wouldn't expulsion have been warranted? Then whoever would've been free to spy as much as they wanted. The break down for me here was that a spy mission by another alliance was even allowed. How can any STA member trust their leadership now?
[/quote]
You don't know the evidence, and we have no need to share it with you, so please don't speak out as if you know the situation. The evidence we gave STA was pretty strong. Frankly if anyone said no to spying given what we gave them, we'd have to assume they are supporting the actions of the person. Given what we presented, not allowing a spy operation is pretty fishy. If you have nothing to hide, there's no problem allowing a spy operation to go off. If you do have something to hide, that's when you start dodging the questions, reducing your NS, or refusing to do simple things that would prove your innocence. Don't talk about it as if STA is allowing alliances to spy on any member at any time.

If you had good evidence to show that a goon was sending secret aid we'd allow you to spy to settle the matter once and for all.

EDIT: Wording.

Edited September 15, 2010 by Beefspari

[Mandolus]

[quote name='LeonidasRexII' timestamp='1284516383' post='2454251']
I don't think you have to. In this case if there was as much evidence as Pez said there was wouldn't expulsion have been warranted? Then whoever would've been free to spy as much as they wanted. The break down for me here was that a spy mission by another alliance was even allowed. How can any STA member trust their leadership now?
[/quote]

I'm pretty sure STA membership has nothing to worry about unless they secret aid Methrage.

But hey someone else is welcome to try, lets see if we can get up to $360 million.

[the rebel]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1284517417' post='2454273']
The evidence we gave STA was pretty strong. Frankly if anyone said no to spying given what we gave them, we'd have to assume they are supporting the actions of the person.[/quote]

Could you message me the evidence just out of curiousity and because i need to provide proof to my banks before they let me withdraw such a large amount, as we at rebellion dont do cheques...

[Bavaricar]

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1284517407' post='2454272']
How dare MK honor a sensible request from a valued ally.

Point poorly made, Bavaricar.
[/quote]

Where you see a sensible request, I see an alliance that would be laughed at were it not for the influence of the MK.

Where you see a valued ally for the MK, I see cement boots.

[Beefspari]

[quote name='the rebel' timestamp='1284518199' post='2454285']
Could you message me the evidence just out of curiousity and because i need to provide proof to my banks before they let me withdraw such a large amount, as we at rebellion dont do cheques...
[/quote]
Well you admitted to it so I hardly think this is necessary. Besides which, I don't want to give out any information about our aid-finding process, though suffice it to say Methrage played an integral part in helping us identify his aiders.

[SirWilliam]

[quote name='Bavaricar' timestamp='1284518202' post='2454286']
Where you see a sensible request, I see an alliance that would be laughed at were it not for the influence of the MK.

Where you see a valued ally for the MK, I see cement boots.
[/quote]

You need new stunna shades.

[Choson]

[quote name='Bavaricar' timestamp='1284518202' post='2454286']
Where you see a sensible request, I see an alliance that would be laughed at were it not for the influence of the MK.

Where you see a valued ally for the MK, I see cement boots.
[/quote]
You're saying that STA would be laughed at? That's pretty harsh.

[pezstar]

[quote name='Bavaricar' timestamp='1284518202' post='2454286']
Where you see a sensible request, I see an alliance that would be laughed at were it not for the influence of the MK.

Where you see a valued ally for the MK, I see cement boots.
[/quote]

STA was well respected long before we were allied to MK. No one would be, or has laughed at us for this. Well. No one but a couple of Legionnaires. I think we'll survive.

[Bavaricar]

[quote name='pezstar' timestamp='1284518401' post='2454294']
STA was well respected long before we were allied to MK. No one would be, or has laughed at us for this. Well. No one but a couple of Legionnaires. I think we'll survive.
[/quote]

You need to read what I responded to more carefully and not how the goons are spinning this. You indicated earlier that you would permit the MK to spy on the rebel, but not the goons. Pardon me for characterizing this as you laughing at the goons, I have to have dreams.

[pezstar]

[quote name='Bavaricar' timestamp='1284518626' post='2454295']
You need to read what I responded to more carefully and not how the goons are spinning this. You indicated earlier that you would permit the MK to spy on the rebel, but not the goons. Pardon me for characterizing this as you laughing at the goons, I have to have dreams.
[/quote]

We're the ally that requested MK do it. You need to read what YOU responded to a bit more carefully.

[Bavaricar]

[quote name='pezstar' timestamp='1284518721' post='2454296']
We're the ally that requested MK do it. You need to read what YOU responded to a bit more carefully.
[/quote]

Well, duh? Are you always this aggressive?

[LeonidasRexII]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1284517417' post='2454273']
You don't know the evidence, and we have no need to share it with you, so please don't speak out as if you know the situation. The evidence we gave STA was pretty strong. Frankly if anyone said no to spying given what we gave them, we'd have to assume they are supporting the actions of the person. Given what we presented, not allowing a spy operation is pretty fishy. If you have nothing to hide, there's no problem allowing a spy operation to go off. If you do have something to hide, that's when you start dodging the questions, reducing your NS, or refusing to do simple things that would prove your innocence. Don't talk about it as if STA is allowing alliances to spy on any member at any time.

If you had good evidence to show that a goon was sending secret aid we'd allow you to spy to settle the matter once and for all.

EDIT: Wording.
[/quote]

I'm not speaking to the evidence I'm speaking to what was done after said evidence was provided. Maybe it's just me, but there's no evidence that would convince me that spying from another alliance was justified. If the evidence was that bad reps could have been levied then if the accused refused they could be expelled.

[Choson]

[quote name='LeonidasRexII' timestamp='1284518935' post='2454302']
I'm not speaking to the evidence I'm speaking to what was done after said evidence was provided. Maybe it's just me, but there's no evidence that would convince me that spying from another alliance was justified. If the evidence was that bad reps could have been levied then if the accused refused they could be expelled.
[/quote]
Even if your own alliance asked another alliance to do so?

[Mandolus]

[quote name='LeonidasRexII' timestamp='1284518935' post='2454302']
I'm not speaking to the evidence I'm speaking to what was done after said evidence was provided. Maybe it's just me, but there's no evidence that would convince me that spying from another alliance was justified. If the evidence was that bad reps could have been levied then if the accused refused they could be expelled.
[/quote]

Thanks for your opinion, I must have missed where someone asked what Legion thought about all of this though?

[SirWilliam]

[quote name='LeonidasRexII' timestamp='1284518935' post='2454302']
I'm not speaking to the evidence I'm speaking to what was done after said evidence was provided. Maybe it's just me, but there's no evidence that would convince me that spying from another alliance was justified. If the evidence was that bad reps could have been levied then if the accused refused they could be expelled.
[/quote]

The handling of the situation was deemed acceptable by the parties involved (other than the guilty individual of course). That's really all that matters.

[Choson]

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1284519144' post='2454306']
The handling of the situation was deemed acceptable by the parties involved (other than the guilty individual of course). That's really all that matters.
[/quote]
NUH-UH! See here, Legion doesn't like it, so it's not okay. Got it!?

[Sephiroth]

Along with how STA handled this situation and switching sides in BiPolar War makes it hard to have any respect for the alliance. The rebel was the best member you had and you treated him guilty until proven innocent, which isn't the way to treat your members.

[Choson]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1284519429' post='2454309']
Along with how STA handled this situation and switching sides in BiPolar War makes it hard to have any respect for the alliance. The rebel was the best member you had and you treated him guilty until proven innocent, which isn't the way to treat your members.
[/quote]
No, I'd be willing to put money on this and say Tyga is probably their best member.

[Biazt]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1284519429' post='2454309']
Along with how STA handled this situation and switching sides in BiPolar War makes it hard to have any respect for the alliance. The rebel was the best member you had and you treated him guilty until proven innocent, which isn't the way to treat your members.
[/quote]
270m. Keep it up buddy.

[Haquertal]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1284519429' post='2454309']
Along with how STA handled this situation and switching sides in BiPolar War makes it hard to have any respect for the alliance. The rebel was the best member you had and you treated him guilty until proven innocent, which isn't the way to treat your members.
[/quote]

Best member for aiding a nuclear rogue?

270m, Thanks.

[LeonidasRexII]

[quote name='Choson' timestamp='1284519056' post='2454304']
Even if your own alliance asked another alliance to do so?
[/quote]

That's kind of my point. I'm wondering why STA couldn't have handled this internally? If they really needed to I'm sure they had other members in his range who could have gotten the info that was needed.