Poll on planned war conditions

[Botha]

[quote name='Sal Paradise' timestamp='1281124384' post='2402975']So why did you vote no? You're throwing off my confirmation bias here.[/quote]

[color="#000080"]The question is a paradox: how can you have unplanned participants in something planned? I found that concept perplexing so at the end of the day I just voted 'no' because of 'meh' and pretty much what iamthey stated, you don't need extra rules in something planned (= mutually agreed). [/color]

[Subtleknifewielder]

[quote name='Triyun' timestamp='1281079976' post='2402535']
I vote no, the purpose of war in my view is destroying one's opponent utterly. Time is merely one front on which to defeat them.
[/quote]
loltriyun

[quote name='iamthey' timestamp='1281127060' post='2403037']
If it boils down to mutual respect then there is no reason for there to be another OOC rule that Rpers can argue about and beat each other over the head with.
[/quote]
Ah, but the point is, some of us don't have respect for certain others either IC-ly or OOC'ly, so some sense needs to be beaten into them.

[quote name='Botha' timestamp='1281212752' post='2403937']
[color="#000080"]The question is a paradox: how can you have unplanned participants in something planned? I found that concept perplexing so at the end of the day I just voted 'no' because of 'meh' and pretty much what iamthey stated, you don't need extra rules in something planned (= mutually agreed). [/color]
[/quote]
'No plan completely survives contact with the enemy.' Obviously you can't account for every factor even in what is supposed to be a planned war. This is a way to account for one such factor--other participants.

[Botha]

[quote name='Subtleknifewielder' timestamp='1281213897' post='2403960']Ah, but the point is, some of us don't have respect for certain others either IC-ly or OOC'ly, so some sense needs to be beaten into them.[/quote]

[color="#000080"]Then don't RP with them. Problem solved. No one is forcing anyone to RP with someone else.[/color]

[Subtleknifewielder]

[quote name='Botha' timestamp='1281214030' post='2403962']
[color="#000080"]Then don't RP with them. Problem solved. No one is forcing anyone to RP with someone else.[/color]
[/quote]
That's the point...what are you suposed to do when someone who has no respect for you butts into your war?

[Sarah Tintagyl]

Like to put it like this...

If you're going to whine that your war isn't going exactly the way you want it too...you need to figure out something better to whine about. War is going to get messy, that's what war is about. Not everything is going to be planned, no everything is going to go just the way you wanted it to. If people come in and they came in at the wrong time, or they came in and you don't like them, stop, take a deep breath, and tell them the problem you have. Most people will be respectful and change or at least alter so the RP is more fun.

All in all, it comes down to agreement and respect. Even though it might be an unplanned war, both parties should be talking to each other and both parties should have SOME respect to the other party. It always goes both way, in the end that's always how it happens.

But for the love of God, let the kids RP ref, let the kids RP. The difference is, completely pushing someone out of a story, or completely pushing someone out of an RP. If you do that, well, you're just an $@!.

[Voodoo Nova]

[quote name='Subtleknifewielder' timestamp='1281214487' post='2403970']
That's the point...what are you suposed to do when someone who has no respect for you butts into your war?
[/quote]

What about the issue with IC continuity in regards to IC diplomatic efforts? Are people supposed to just ignore that? It doesn't mean one is obligated to enter the RP, but it does throw a massive wrench in to the IC of CNRP, unless people request no assistance.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

[quote name='HHAYD' timestamp='1281098757' post='2402637']
Ironically, there were mobs of people DoWing on me and CAN refused to help me when I was expecting they would. I folded to avoid being annihilated. I was expecting a few enemies and support for me, not a stampede of haters and no help. I knew it wasn't going to turn out well when spy attempts became blotched.

As for the planned war conditions, if someone wants to join, politely ask them to be realistic with the movements. Most of the time they will be realistic, or at least try.
[/quote]

Unfortunately when you plan on the participation of allies and they bail it's a variable you cannot pre-determine unless you discuss it with them in advance. I've been in your shoes, it isn't pretty.

[quote name=Subtleknifewielder]
'No plan completely survives contact with the enemy.' Obviously you can't account for every factor even in what is supposed to be a planned war. This is a way to account for one such factor--other participants.
[/quote]

'No plan completely survives contact with the community.'

Here, I fixed it for you.

Edited August 8, 2010 by Maelstrom Vortex

[Acca Dacca]

I'll await the day the guy I hate to plan a war, and ruin everything by attacking him.

Come on.

[Botha]

[quote name='Subtleknifewielder' timestamp='1281214487' post='2403970']That's the point...what are you suposed to do when someone who has no respect for you butts into your war?[/quote]

[color="#000080"]Errm, Ignore them? Although that's easier for me to say...[/color]

[Kevin Kingswell]

[quote name='Botha' timestamp='1281250918' post='2404385']
[color="#000080"]Errm, Ignore them? Although that's easier for me to say...[/color]
[/quote]

Well the thing is that there is a community supported rule, at least in the majority, that if you ignore someone that has declared war on you, you lose your territory.

[HHAYD]

[quote name='Kevin Kingswell' timestamp='1281285793' post='2404588']
Well the thing is that there is a community supported rule, at least in the majority, that if you ignore someone that has declared war on you, you lose your territory.
[/quote]
What if they butt in without any notifications, disregarded any plans that the original combatants formed, used a vastly different timescale, claimed that they managed to transport 200k troops within RL minutes, and started headbutting another combatant's military in less than a RL minute after loading stuff off aircraft and ships? Meanwhile, another new combatant decides to use the exact opposite scale, one RL day=one RP day and starts crying out "OMG! WTH! GODMODE!", there is going to be an OOC trainwreak.

Edited August 8, 2010 by HHAYD

[Shatner]

Yes.

[Botha]

[quote name='Kevin Kingswell' timestamp='1281285793' post='2404588']Well the thing is that there is a community supported rule, at least in the majority, that if you ignore someone that has declared war on you, you lose your territory.[/quote]

[color="#000080"]So... where does mutuality come into play here? I'm still trying to figure out how you can impose RP on someone who doesn't want to be a willing participant.[/color]

[Justinian the Mighty]

[quote name='Botha' timestamp='1281306590' post='2404893']
[color="#000080"]So... where does mutuality come into play here? I'm still trying to figure out how you can impose RP on someone who doesn't want to be a willing participant.[/color]
[/quote]

It's called RP rape, and unlike it's real world counterpart, rp rape is entirely acceptable and a majority of people openly participate in it.

[Kevin Kingswell]

[quote name='Botha' timestamp='1281306590' post='2404893']
[color="#000080"]So... where does mutuality come into play here? I'm still trying to figure out how you can impose RP on someone who doesn't want to be a willing participant.[/color]
[/quote]

See this is where you and me have two different outlooks on this situation. I would agree that you shouldn't be able force RP on anyone if they were RPing in their own RP world however, this doesn't apply to CNRP.

You see in my opinion if you choose to rp with the rest of the CNRP community, by joining the world map and rping with said RP factions from that map, then you have already made yourself a willing participant by simply joining.

An example would be like joining a football league but choosing to only play with a select few teams. If you join something whether it be a football league or a roleplay forum you have to participate with everybody regardless of whether you like what they are doing or not.

Now whilst unplanned wars are in general rude it is part of this game and you have to roll with them even if you dont like it.

[Kaiser Martens]

I voted for the last option.

Why? Because if one wants to RP without others being involved, that's what "CLOSED RP" is for.

[Generalissimo]

Preplanned war conditions allow for unplanned intervention, yet provides a few basic ground rules for all participants. Current game balance is preserved because no amount of preplanned war conditions will stop an armed intervention from a superior coalition of uninvited player’s nations from steamrolling through.[quote name='Kevin Kingswell' timestamp='1281309124' post='2405003']You see in my opinion if you choose to rp with the rest of the CNRP community, by joining the world map and rping with said RP factions from that map, then you have already made yourself a willing participant by simply joining.[/quote]Once again someone incorrectly asserts that a place on the World Map and participation in CNRP is mutually exclusive. Generalissimo is not on this map, yet I have long role-played small military excursion on vacation in someone else’s country - a force theoretically capable of deploying right now.

[Kevin Kingswell]

[quote name='Generalissimo' timestamp='1281310908' post='2405182']
Preplanned war conditions allow for unplanned intervention, yet provides a few basic ground rules for all participants. Current game balance is preserved because no amount of preplanned war conditions will stop an armed intervention from a superior coalition of uninvited player’s nations from steamrolling through.Once again someone incorrectly asserts that a place on the World Map and participation in CNRP is mutually exclusive. Generalissimo is not on this map, yet I have long role-played small military excursion on vacation in someone else’s country - a force theoretically capable of deploying right now.
[/quote]

Then technically you are still on the world map, just you are in someone else's territory not your own. This is perfectly fine by me as you are still in essence on the world map.

[Voodoo Nova]

[quote name='Kevin Kingswell' timestamp='1281311824' post='2405256']
Then technically you are still on the world map, just you are in someone else's territory not your own. This is perfectly fine by me as you are still in essence on the world map.
[/quote]

Just because you are not on the World Map doesn't mean you are not in CNRP. I could be a private military corporation not operating out of any country.

KaiserMartens is correct in that if someone doesn't want people entering in uninvited, the RP should be categorized as a "Closed RP".

Edited August 9, 2010 by Voodoo Nova

[Kevin Kingswell]

[quote name='Voodoo Nova' timestamp='1281316855' post='2405746']
Just because you are not on the World Map doesn't mean you are not in CNRP. I could be a private military corporation not operating out of any country.

KaiserMartens is correct in that if someone doesn't want people entering in uninvited, the RP should be categorized as a "Closed RP".
[/quote]

Then where would you be operating from? Without out a location it would be impossible for someone to strike against you if they felt the need to. Everything must be located somewhere and that is why we have the world map.

[Subtleknifewielder]

[quote name='Sarah Tintagyl' timestamp='1281220992' post='2404057']
Like to put it like this...

If you're going to whine that your war isn't going exactly the way you want it too...you need to figure out something better to whine about. War is going to get messy, that's what war is about. Not everything is going to be planned, no everything is going to go just the way you wanted it to. If people come in and they came in at the wrong time, or they came in and you don't like them, stop, take a deep breath, and tell them the problem you have. Most people will be respectful and change or at least alter so the RP is more fun.

All in all, it comes down to agreement and respect. Even though it might be an unplanned war, both parties should be talking to each other and both parties should have SOME respect to the other party. It always goes both way, in the end that's always how it happens.

But for the love of God, let the kids RP ref, let the kids RP. The difference is, completely pushing someone out of a story, or completely pushing someone out of an RP. If you do that, well, you're just an $@!.
[/quote]
No one's forcing anyone to join or not join the RP, that's not the issue.

[quote name='Voodoo Nova' timestamp='1281221410' post='2404066']
What about the issue with IC continuity in regards to IC diplomatic efforts? Are people supposed to just ignore that? It doesn't mean one is obligated to enter the RP, but it does throw a massive wrench in to the IC of CNRP, unless people request no assistance.
[/quote]
Diplomatic efforts are fine, and I have no problem with that. Once one decides to enter the war, though, it SHOULD be common courtesy to respect the rules set up for the war.

[quote name='Voodoo Nova' timestamp='1281316855' post='2405746']
Just because you are not on the World Map doesn't mean you are not in CNRP. I could be a private military corporation not operating out of any country.

KaiserMartens is correct in that if someone doesn't want people entering in uninvited, the RP should be categorized as a "Closed RP".
[/quote]
No one is saying this is closed. How did the subject change here?