There are too many alliances and some of you should disband.

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1280745719' post='2398254']
Sup Hiro?

It is quite possible that internally they have good member relations and they have good people, but if that's what you're looking for why not join a random chat room, not an alliance in a nation sim. Good people is obviously an important part of any alliance, but when you compare that against a history of weasel moves, leaders the calibre of Olaf, military performance that would shame an alliance half their strength and age, and an attitude of 'Hey, its pretty awesome what we helped you guys do to our treaty partner that time, right guys?', I just cannot think of them as anything other than as a pitiful, horrible joke.
[/quote]

I'm not saying I agree with what happened or what never happened sooner. But I'm sure if you look back on most alliances history they have done some things that look shady or have been shady. I'm sure being a NPO member you could agree, you have done shadily bad things, This does not make your alliance a joke or worthless (yes I just said you're not worthless) It just means you have made mistakes. It certainly does not detract away from the fact. In your eyes I bet internally NPO has some awesome folks and it's ran very smooth. Internally I can say Sparta is ran amazingly well. It is hard to get yourself across when previous infractions are constantly thrown in your face. Although when Olaf was given Kingship I did go LOL WUT? but that's there choice. Wilhelm on the other hand is one of the most competent people I have ever worked under. There membership is certainly not a joke. (bar 1 or 2) But that's to be expected for an alliance that size. I'm pretty sure Sparta realise when they have DUN GOOF'D and I'm sure they know when they have done the right thing. I can't think of any time I have seen a Spartan member say "hey guys we just helped smash your opponent and our old treaty partner by a triple break of flank attack, WE ROCK" Or words to that affect. I could be wrong, I'm sure the haters will quote enlighten me though. I can see the bliss of having someone to poke fun at though, it certainly beats having the fun poked at your alliance amirite or amirite?

Also I'm kind of doing great Tbh, you should come by our new forums and check us out. I have been captivated back to this game by some super awesome people.

Edited August 2, 2010 by Hiro Nakara

[Wilhelm the Demented]

[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1280746329' post='2398259']
I see it's not just Olaf that's been bitten with the bug to ingratiate himself with the bottom feeders of CN. Congrats, way to appeal to the lowest common denominator there buddy. And really, is that the best response you can come up with? I just summarized your entire history in a few sentences, using the arguments Spartans themselves had made, and none of it was good. Inventing a reason to fall? None of that was invention. Like I said, addressing the criticism might help your image.[/quote]
Yeah, umad.

As for your claims, you've misconstrued some terms and events to suit the portrait you'd like to paint of us - I'm sure it was intentional, I just wanted to point it out.

[quote]Imitation? Of who, or is this just another one of your baseless throwaway lines?
[/quote]
It's the same black and white argument presented by any single person that has an issue with Sparta.

[Kalasin]

[quote name='Reziun' timestamp='1280744567' post='2398244']
HE is alive and well
[/quote]

Heheh, well played.

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='alyster' timestamp='1280745823' post='2398255']
Oh c'mon people. How long will you trag this one simple thing.

Prior to April 15 Sparta was flirting with Karmas side.
April 15th Sparta left the Q, but kept a MDP with NPO (after the 72h cancellation period) [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=54176]1[/url]
April 20th NPO and TORN declare war on OV for spying
April 21st failed peace negotiation
April 21st Sparta cancels the NPO-Sparta MDP (48h cancellation period follows) [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=54742]2[/url]
April 22nd 12 alliances declare war on NPO
[b]April 23rd Sparta activates 2 optional agression treaties to attack NPO 1 minute after the MDP had expired (while NPO was attacked by 12 alliances during that time)[/b] [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=55070]3[/url]

And as I understand Sparta still defends that decision. Well for Athens' sake I hope they won't be on the losing edge of a war or or Sparta has to pull of some more maneuvers.

But by all means, please do stay.
[/quote]

Sorry why did you leave Sparta again? Or did you get booted out? No that's right, you began crying about something and left. So your opinion is completely unbiased aye.

inb4 you think I'm raging against you, Tbh I liked you in Sparta and I like you now I just think your opinion is completely biased and thus, always one sided in regards to Sparta.

Edited August 2, 2010 by Hiro Nakara

[alyster]

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1280747000' post='2398264']
Sorry why did you leave Sparta again? Or did you get booted out? No that's right, you began crying about something and left. So your opinion is completely unbiased aye.
[/quote]


Oh yes, I remember that clause in logic: if you don't like me, facts aren't relevant anymore.

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='alyster' timestamp='1280747398' post='2398270']
Oh yes, I remember that clause in logic: if you don't like me, facts aren't relevant anymore.
[/quote]

Check my edit I was typing as you posted

The fact is you hate Sparta. You hate them for some trivial thing that happened right before you left.

The time line I wasn't commenting on, more the hatred you spewed about better watch out Athens comment. This stems from your hatred of Sparta and is not even relevant to the discussion. Well it is relevant to you, it was a prime chance for you to vent said hatred and look cool (I'm hating on Sparta like everyone else look at me)

If you could offer an unbiased view to what happened what made these things happen or events leading up to it, then I would gladly read and discuss it, but as you lack that, then I will take whatever you have to say as an opportunity to jab at people you had a petty falling out with in your time within Sparta.

Edited August 2, 2010 by Hiro Nakara

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='wilhelm the demented' timestamp='1280746581' post='2398262']
Yeah, umad.

As for your claims, you've misconstrued some terms and events to suit the portrait you'd like to paint of us - I'm sure it was intentional, I just wanted to point it out.


It's the same black and white argument presented by any single person that has an issue with Sparta.
[/quote]
Thanks for proving the extent of your intellectual capability. And you were the one that claimed you were forced to become a puppet, and tried to blame a lot of your history on us. I just extrapolated from that to produce a Spartan's version of Spartan history. Feel free to put it on your wiki as the official version.

Like I said, the reason you keep hearing these criticisms is because they are legitimate ones that your alliance fails to address.

[Wilhelm the Demented]

[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1280748091' post='2398274']
Thanks for proving the extent of your intellectual capability. And you were the one that claimed you were forced to become a puppet, and tried to blame a lot of your history on us. I just extrapolated from that to produce a Spartan's version of Spartan history. Feel free to put it on your wiki as the official version.

Like I said, the reason you keep hearing these criticisms is because they are legitimate ones that your alliance fails to address.
[/quote]
Yeah, I'm certain we've addressed these things on multiple occasions.

I even remember discussing much of this with you in the Q&A on your home boards, so please forgive me if I dismiss everything you repeatedly say as nothing more than an attempt to deface us in public.

You have no interest in resolving the issue - you've made that blatantly obvious. You aren't testing the extent of my intellectual ability, you're testing the extent of my tolerance.

Edited August 2, 2010 by wilhelm the demented

[Yuenny]

[quote name='alyster' timestamp='1280747398' post='2398270']
Oh yes, I remember that clause in logic: if you don't like me, facts aren't relevant anymore.
[/quote]

Vladimir's completely unfamiliar with that sort of logic!

[Fallen]

my my you really dont get it its not alliance that are boring but its the people in it that are boring so even if you disband the boring alliance and merge it with super cool awesome alliance u still will be bored of them so if u truly want to do it and serious go declare war on every boring alliance zi them and make the game intresting but if u cant or not serious or think its too much of a work to do i guess ur in the same list too.

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='wilhelm the demented' timestamp='1280748474' post='2398278']
Yeah, I'm certain we've addressed these things on multiple occasions.

I even remember discussing much of this with you in the Q&A on your home boards, so please forgive me if I dismiss everything you repeatedly say as nothing more than an attempt to deface us in public.

You have no interest in resolving the issue - you've made that blatantly obvious. You aren't testing the extent of my intellectual ability, you're testing the extent of my tolerance.
[/quote]
If you count saying 'We were forced into it! Also, we wanted to make amends for being allied to you', as addressing these issues, then you'll have to forgive me if I'm not impressed. And yes, I'm looking at the quote now. Unfortunate, having a record like that sitting around eh?

I have an interest in Sparta taking responsibility for their actions. No, of course I'm not going to accept your NPO demonisation story, however well that might have worked on your new buddies in SF and C&G. So, you're not intellectually limited, just intellectually lazy eh? I don't see another reason to go back to the Spartan standard response of umad.

[Wilhelm the Demented]

[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1280750080' post='2398292']
If you count saying 'We were forced into it! Also, we wanted to make amends for being allied to you', as addressing these issues, then you'll have to forgive me if I'm not impressed. And yes, I'm looking at the quote now. Unfortunate, having a record like that sitting around eh?

I have an interest in Sparta taking responsibility for their actions. No, of course I'm not going to accept your NPO demonisation story, however well that might have worked on your new buddies in SF and C&G. So, you're not intellectually limited, just intellectually lazy eh? I don't see another reason to go back to the Spartan standard response of umad.
[/quote]
It's clear we have a different view on the matter, then, eh?

Your inability to quote verbatim is interesting, but it happens.

Damned if I do, damned if I don't. I told you then that I would lay it out as I see it, and be done with it. I'm moving on, I don't care if you want to sit in the past and complain.

[lmcfalcon12]

[quote name='Jrenster' timestamp='1280722349' post='2397913']
You literally took every complaint about us merged together into a big pile of !@#$.

And I think a lot of people will disagree with you on being this being one of the worst threads ever. The amount of butthurt generated from people like you is giving people a lot of good laughs.

Also, you seem to have a lot of issues with us, despite the fact that you're allied to us. Maybe you need to get yourself a new alliance if you dislike us so much, because one day, we're going to be fighting for each other.
[/quote]

Why would I be butthurt? My alliance isn't even on the list. And all of a sudden your butthurt and offended? Boo hoo. Congrats NSO for making a big spectacle of nonsense. No matter how you slice it, or not matter what the thread "appears" to say, this is just a way for NSO to get attention with an immature thread that says, "alliances we deem, not as good as NSO GTFO of the game." Congrats guys you look real cool now.

I didn't have issues with your alliance until the rest of your alliance came in and tried to defend this thread starting goof. If he was in my alliance, I'd have ignored him and told the rest of my alliance to do such as well. I get the philosophy of "defend your buddies right or wrong," but when a member of an alliance posts something so foolish, immature, and stupid, you let him burn himself on his own accord. That's why I have a problem with NSO because you're all the same apparently. For you to condone such a ridiculous waste of thread is amazing. Good for you.

We're going to be fighting each other? Heh heh. Boy, I'd sure like to see that. This game is so lame anymore. You think I'm going to be hurt if you roll my 5000 strength nation on my reroll? Think again. You want to really get to me, show up at my house and let's have a fist fight in my driveway. Little idle threats of "we're going to be fighting each other," don't really get me riled up. Now you just look like the rest of the 10 year olds (myself included) posting in this thread. If you really want to get to me, its not going to be in a little geo-political simulation game I can tell you that right now. Try again.

Like I said, until you show up at my house to bare knuckle box, we're not fighting each other. Enjoy your pixels. I'm seeing most people in CN are a joke anymore. You guys flip flop your opinions on guys so much. I burn Legion because that's what I came to do, MK and NSO back me up, but when I point out one member of NSO making arrogant posts like a clown, the same alliances jump on me. Whatever.

Edited August 2, 2010 by lmcfalcon12

[Jrenster]

[quote name='lmcfalcon12' timestamp='1280755300' post='2398317']
Why would I be butthurt? My alliance isn't even on the list. And all of a sudden your butthurt and offended? Boo hoo. Congrats NSO for making a big spectacle of nonsense. No matter how you slice it, or not matter what the thread "appears" to say, this is just a way for NSO to get attention with an immature thread that says, "alliances we deem, not as good as NSO GTFO of the game." Congrats guys you look real cool now.

I didn't have issues with your alliance until the rest of your alliance came in and tried to defend this thread starting goof. If he was in my alliance, I'd have ignored him and told the rest of my alliance to do such as well. I get the philosophy of "defend your buddies right or wrong," but when a member of an alliance posts something so foolish, immature, and stupid, you let him burn himself on his own accord. That's why I have a problem with NSO because you're all the same apparently. For you to condone such a ridiculous waste of thread is amazing. Good for you.

We're going to be fighting each other? Heh heh. Boy, I'd sure like to see that. This game is so lame anymore. You think I'm going to be hurt if you roll my 5000 strength nation on my reroll? Think again. You want to really get to me, show up at my house and let's have a fist fight in my driveway. Little idle threats of "we're going to be fighting each other," don't really get me riled up. Now you just look like the rest of the 10 year olds (myself included) posting in this thread. If you really want to get to me, its not going to be in a little geo-political simulation game I can tell you that right now. Try again.

Like I said, until you show up at my house to bare knuckle box, we're not fighting each other. Enjoy your pixels. I'm seeing most people in CN are a joke anymore. You guys flip flop your opinions on guys so much. I burn Legion because that's what I came to do, MK and NSO back me up, but when I point out one member of NSO making arrogant posts like a clown, the same alliances jump on me. Whatever.
[/quote]

You're pretty bad at posts, you know that? First, you give me a no u. Then you misconstrue me saying "fighting [i]for[/i] each other" for "fighting each other" and literally going into a five minute tirade about pixels and street fights or whatever other horse!@#$ you brewed up. I mean, I don't like gag orders, but I can sort of understand why you were getting gagged before now.

[lmcfalcon12]

[quote name='Jrenster' timestamp='1280755956' post='2398324']
You're pretty bad at posts, you know that? First, you give me a no u. Then you misconstrue me saying "fighting [i]for[/i] each other" for "fighting each other" and literally going into a five minute tirade about pixels and street fights or whatever other horse!@#$ you brewed up. I mean, I don't like gag orders, but I can sort of understand why you were getting gagged before now.
[/quote]

You're the one who said "Oh we'll be fighting each other some day." On what stage? Hydra wasn't even on your list, and if you're after me, I'd encourage you to take a swing. Because I've long thought about leaving. I've accomplished what I rerolled to do.

[QUOTE]I don't like gag orders, but I can sort of understand why you were getting gagged before now.[/QUOTE]

And what's funny is I can't see why your guys AREN'T getting gagged. Like I said, dumb thread required dumb replies. Had this thread had some substance and intelligence to it, you'd have gotten likewise replies. I just try and keep the content at the level where you guys can understand without calling mom and dad over to the computer to explain it to you. I suspected if I used a word that a 10 year old couldn't understand, that we'd just have more confusion than replies.

Edited August 2, 2010 by lmcfalcon12

[Jrenster]

[quote name='lmcfalcon12' timestamp='1280756433' post='2398328']
You're the one who said "Oh we'll be fighting each other some day." On what stage? Hydra wasn't even on your list, and if you're after me, I'd encourage you to take a swing. Because I've long thought about leaving. I've accomplished what I rerolled to do.
[/quote]

Are you ever going to reread my post? Here, I'll give you a freebie:

[quote]
Also, you seem to have a lot of issues with us, despite the fact that you're allied to us. Maybe you need to get yourself a new alliance if you dislike us so much, because one day, we're going to be [b]fighting for each other[/b].[/quote]

Edited August 2, 2010 by Jrenster

[lmcfalcon12]

[quote name='Jrenster' timestamp='1280757406' post='2398341']
Are you ever going to reread my post? Here, I'll give you a freebie:
[/quote]

Well played. Apologies for misreading.

[Corinan]

[quote name='lmcfalcon12' timestamp='1280756433' post='2398328']
And what's funny is I can't see why your guys AREN'T getting gagged. Like I said, dumb thread required dumb replies. Had this thread had some substance and intelligence to it, you'd have gotten likewise replies. I just try and keep the content at the level where you guys can understand without calling mom and dad over to the computer to explain it to you. I suspected if I used a word that a 10 year old couldn't understand, that we'd just have more confusion than replies.
[/quote]

Well actually this thread has gotten many intelligent replies, yours not included of course. People from all sides of the political landscape have agreed with my general opinion that there are too many alliances. Just because you don't like what I had to say doesn't mean it's stupid or invalid.

[lmcfalcon12]

[quote name='Corinan' timestamp='1280758105' post='2398352']
Well actually this thread has gotten many intelligent replies, yours not included of course. People from all sides of the political landscape have agreed with my general opinion that there are too many alliances. Just because you don't like what I had to say doesn't mean it's stupid or invalid.
[/quote]

Not that it matters, but of all the total alliances, (I don't know the number), how many would you keep? What would the cut off for strength be? What requirements would a "group" of nations need to be classified as an alliance? Because after some sufficient thought, if you had a system this might not be such a bad idea. In fact, if you had these tiny little groups floating around, it might make the game more interesting if you had certain rules to govern them.

[Skap Q]

No, see they are the dark knight

Because he's the hero Bob deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt him because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. A dark knight.

[SiCkO]

[quote name='wilhelm the demented' timestamp='1280735741' post='2398150']
NPO helped us out quite significantly when we started out, did it not? That's what we call being grateful, being loyal even through controversy.
[/quote]

So your loyalty is important as long as your allies arnt going to lose a war. Grow a spine you cowards and learn how to fight rather than trying to worm your way out of trouble, then maybe I will say your alliance isnt totally worthless.

[Trinite]

More alliances allows more people to be really involved in the process. A great deal of enjoyment in this game comes from being in government and helping to actually run an alliance. Your proposal would remove this opportunity from a large portion of CNers, and make it almost impossible for newer members to get there. The more alliances the better, I say.

I agree with less treaties though. Tying yourselves to too many alliances can create problems. Very tricky problems where an alliance has to choose between allies. I think a close review of treaties by alliances solves the problem better than disbanding alliances I don't like.

[Uralica]

[quote name='Trinite' timestamp='1280765628' post='2398456']
I agree with less treaties though. Tying yourselves to too many alliances can create problems. Very tricky problems where an alliance has to choose between allies. I think a close review of treaties by alliances solves the problem better than disbanding alliances I don't like.
[/quote]

DING DING DING DING!! We have a winner!

Honestly, this is very true. Although there are times when even those with few treaties can get stuck between friends that don't like each other, the chances of having conflicting treaties increases in (possibly exponential) proportion to the number of MDP+ treaties one has.

Also, there are two schools of treaty-signing thought: Politics and Friendship. Some alliances do a bit of both. I'd rather stick to treaties based on friendship. It's how TOOL hooked up with IRON (oddly enough, after fighting them ) and Brigade (ditto), even though neither is a white-team alliance.

IRON
Brig

[Seth Muscarella]

[quote name='Uralica' timestamp='1280771176' post='2398558']
DING DING DING DING!! We have a winner!

Honestly, this is very true. Although there are times when even those with few treaties can get stuck between friends that don't like each other, the chances of having conflicting treaties increases in (possibly exponential) proportion to the number of MDP+ treaties one has.

Also, there are two schools of treaty-signing thought: Politics and Friendship. Some alliances do a bit of both. I'd rather stick to treaties based on friendship. It's how TOOL hooked up with IRON (oddly enough, after fighting them ) and Brigade (ditto), even though neither is a white-team alliance.

IRON
Brig
[/quote]
You agree with Trinitie's point while you just aligned with BRIG. You and BRIG may be friends, but there will come a day when you'll be approached with the request to defend us, through BRIG, against your other friends.

Edited August 2, 2010 by Seth Muscarella

[Qazzian]

[quote name='Seth Muscarella' timestamp='1280771980' post='2398570']
You agree with Trinitie's point while you just aligned with BRIG. You and BRIG may be friends, but there will come a day when you'll be approached with the request to defend us, through BRIG, against your other friends.
[/quote]

Does this fall under "lines being predicted"?