Jeb the Wise Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 Number 79? Serious? Well at least we've been given a pass. I will work on over RPing my $@! off. (thou shall kiss my a$$ n' such) (drunkenness + spell check = WIN!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dochartaigh Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 [quote name='Aurion' timestamp='1280722075' post='2397906'] That's hindsight. No one could have predicted that they'd completely blow up what was left of their powerbase by declaring on OV like that.[/quote] it is not all hindsight. Karma was a war that was going to be a stalemate at worst from the beginning. Karma's side had several blocs in it that linked to many other alliances. This included some alliances that were on NPO's side, effectively either making those linked alliances have to be neutral, or depending on how many treaties linked them to each side, falling on one side or the other. though iirc, there were not all that many linked alliances. If TOP had fought on NPO's side, it would have made their side more brutal but even they could not have tipped the scales. Karma, from what i remember, was pretty much considered to be a vicious slugfest in which both sides would basically go MAD (mutually assured destruction) on each other but with neither one a clear victor. Once April 21st happened, it was fairly obvious that Karma stood a far better chance at winning, even if TOP did go in on NPO's side and Gremlins sat it out. [quote]Honest belief certainly implies you consider it a certainty. Nice semantic dodge though, I'll grant you.[/quote] yes, i considered it (see my post to Hyperion) a certainty but that does not make it a fact. if i honestly believed that admin would have shut this game down 6 months ago, obviously it does not make it a fact. it makes it my opinion that it is a certainty, not a fact. if you play odds, 90% is a certainty but only 100% is a fact. you are attempting more semantics than i am by trying to state a certainty is a fact. [quote]That's hindsight, again. And Sparta said they'd back us before the CoC became reality, and before TORN peaced/surrendered/whatever you want to call it, and before all the rest of our ducks got in that nice long row.[/quote] so you did not have every single duck in a row, you still had the vast majority of them in a row. [quote]Declaring and saying "We've got your back" are not the same thing. One is a statement of intent and support, the other is whatever order your treaties happen to be activated in and where your coalition partners think you can do the most good.[/quote] you know it is quite simple to manufacture how your treaties are going to be activated since in order to ensure that your coalition partners are hitting where they will do the most good, you have to manufacture how the activations go down. just like with Gre hitting IRON, Gre needed Fark to declare on IRON in order to activate the oA in that treaty which then allowed MHA and FCC to activate their oAs with Gre. so it is not exactly whatever order your treaties happen to do anything. the only treaties that could be random are the initial defensive ones being activated by a partner being attacked. other than that, it is mostly manipulation. [quote]Since it bears repeating again, that's hindsight, and saying "we've got your back" and declaring are different things. And you know as well as I do that Gre wasn't always a 12-man micro with !@#$% insane leadership- back in April 09 what they thought actually mattered. Sure, you can look back[i] now[/i] and say "Oh well you were going to win blah blah", but then as now we were extremely appreciative of Sparta's support especially since they were in a impossible situation, and were heartily relieved that Gre chose not to stay out. [/quote] i know all about Gre as i was in it at the time. i remember most of the discussions that took place within the alliance. as for Sparta, they were in a bad situation, not entirely impossible considering they could have hit others outside of NPO had they kept the treaty. [quote name='Hyperion321' timestamp='1280722630' post='2397916'] Well, we started dropping Q related treaties a couple months before the war. That was about when we started becoming pretty much tied almost exclusively to the forces that would become Karma. In the months leading up to the war we for certain had a lot more friends in SF and C&G than Q. In fact, NPO and TORN were pretty much our only friends on the heg side at that point (even though NPO did treat us like crap, we weren't ready to sever ties just yet...call us sentimental). Yes, I know we canceled on TORN, and that is unfortunate, but we really did think of them as friends back then. And...to be honest we kind of thought TOP would have went with Q and we didn't see the CoC coming at all...so we kind of thought we were screwed. Not only that, but IRON's stats were friggin unbelievable back then and we thought that if TOP and IRON were on the same side, we would have been crushed. But most of our friends were on "GOD's side", so we elected to be there too. Initially (in case of war) we were just going to hit alliances like TOOL that we could hit legally (people other than NPO). What we didn't plan on was NPO's surprise attack - that was the last straw in the friendship that lead to the cancellation. As for attacking NPO - our side needed it to happen. Did it suck? yeah...but we weren't going to say no to our friends when they needed us most. They went balls deep into hell for us, the least we could do is return the favor. It's all an unfortunate mess, but such is war. [/quote] well cleared this all up in private. good convo. ya'll should have been there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilhelm the Demented Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 [quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1280724184' post='2397932'] That's bull. Absolute bull. You kept the treaty in order to retain your veneer of friendship, all the while working behind our backs to bring us down. Sentimental? Hardly. Conniving is how I'd describe it. You say you intended to avoid engaging us. I don't see any evidence at all for that. If you didn't want to hit us there were plenty of other alliances involved in that war. I'll also refer you to GtG's DoW, that OP doesn't show any signs of sentimentality, just a weasel laughing up the success of his betrayal. Had you thought it would be us doing the crushing, it would have been our treaty you activated. You retained our treaty as a cover until you got your chance to plunge the knife in. And finally, that stuff about Sparta being all nice and respectful and trying to repair the relationship only to be so brutally dissuaded by the evil NPO has been disproven many times, even in this thread. You took advantage of us, there is no denying that. I don't think anyone besides maybe your most deluded members still believe that Sparta was trying to salvage the relationship with us. [/quote] Believe whatever keeps your heart burning. NPO tried to sling us around on the leash they so craftily placed around our necks - I'm sorry we swung around to hit you in the face, you guys should have watched what you were doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentkiller Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 [quote name='wilhelm the demented' timestamp='1280732953' post='2398115'] Believe whatever keeps your heart burning. NPO tried to sling us around on the leash they so craftily placed around our necks - I'm sorry we swung around to hit you in the face, you guys should have watched what you were doing. [/quote] Took 3 years for that to happen, I am sure we can be proud of having you on the "leash" as you put it for that long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilhelm the Demented Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 [quote name='silentkiller' timestamp='1280733073' post='2398116'] Took 3 years for that to happen, I am sure we can be proud of having you on the "leash" as you put it for that long. [/quote] So be it, doesn't change the fact that you wore it out and laid out your own coffin. A beaten dog is prone to bite back, is it not? Masters of manipulation that you are, I'm sure you've learned that in your time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldConqueror Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 [quote name='wilhelm the demented' timestamp='1280732953' post='2398115'] Believe whatever keeps your heart burning. NPO tried to sling us around on the leash they so craftily placed around our necks - I'm sorry we swung around to hit you in the face, you guys should have watched what you were doing. [/quote] lol. So now Sparta is using the puppets line too? I'm sorry we so maliciously manipulated you to trick you into signing a treaty and then holding it for years. Did our mind control machine break on the eve of Karma, or did you just regain cognitive functions through divine intervention? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilhelm the Demented Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 [quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1280733482' post='2398118'] lol. So now Sparta is using the puppets line too? I'm sorry we so maliciously manipulated you to trick you into signing a treaty and then holding it for years. Did our mind control machine break on the eve of Karma, or did you just regain cognitive functions through divine intervention? [/quote] Thank you for your apology, hollow as it may be. +1 point for your witty come back though - consider me thoroughly debased! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUELINE976 Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 [quote name='wilhelm the demented' timestamp='1280732953' post='2398115'] Believe whatever keeps your heart burning. NPO tried to sling us around on the leash they so craftily placed around our necks - I'm sorry we swung around to hit you in the face, you guys should have watched what you were doing. [/quote] Surely you must be joking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilhelm the Demented Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 [quote name='BLUELINE976' timestamp='1280734815' post='2398137'] Surely you must be joking. [/quote] Surely, I am not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth Muscarella Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 [quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1280733482' post='2398118'] lol. So now Sparta is using the puppets line too? I'm sorry we so maliciously manipulated you to trick you into signing a treaty and then holding it for years. Did our mind control machine break on the eve of Karma, or did you just regain cognitive functions through divine intervention? [/quote] ITT NPO denies that they were ever seen as a threat to smaller alliances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUELINE976 Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 (edited) [quote name='wilhelm the demented' timestamp='1280734925' post='2398140'] Surely, I am not. [/quote] So whose fault is it for staying attached to this so-called leash you conjured up for so long? Edited August 2, 2010 by BLUELINE976 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilhelm the Demented Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 [quote name='BLUELINE976' timestamp='1280735431' post='2398147'] So whose fault is it for staying attached to this so-called leash you conjured up for so long? [/quote] NPO helped us out quite significantly when we started out, did it not? That's what we call being grateful, being loyal even through controversy. I apologize, though, I wish we could have remained ignorant forever - I wish we could have blindly allowed you to drag us through the mud. I'm so sorry it didn't work out the way you wanted it to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUELINE976 Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 [quote name='wilhelm the demented' timestamp='1280735741' post='2398150'] NPO helped us out quite significantly when we started out, did it not? That's what we call being grateful, being loyal even through controversy. I apologize, though, I wish we could have remained ignorant forever - I wish we could have blindly allowed you to drag us through the mud. I'm so sorry it didn't work out the way you wanted it to. [/quote] Yes, yes of course. Naturally it is NPO's goal to 1: help out new alliances, 2: use some ol' puppet trickery to lull them into a sense of safety, then 3: make them do our dirty work. It seems so plausible! Why didn't we think of it in the first place? And to be quite honest dragging dead weight through the mud is sort of a useless endeavour so things did work out the way I wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilhelm the Demented Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 [quote name='BLUELINE976' timestamp='1280736536' post='2398160'] Yes, yes of course. Naturally it is NPO's goal to 1: help out new alliances, 2: use some ol' puppet trickery to lull them into a sense of safety, then 3: make them do our dirty work. It seems so plausible! Why didn't we think of it in the first place?[/quote] Oh come now! Don't act like it hasn't been your foreign policy for years! The NPO only holds it's allies in high esteem so long as they remain useful to them, assuming they pose no conceivable threat to their seat of power. Yeah, yeah you don't have such a high seat of power anymore, so you've had to change it up a bit, no? [quote]And to be quite honest dragging dead weight through the mud is sort of a useless endeavour so things did work out the way I wanted. [/quote] I'm happy for you, I really am. Thank you for validating my comment right after you tried to debunk it. You're simply brilliant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldConqueror Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 [quote name='Seth Muscarella' timestamp='1280735282' post='2398144'] ITT NPO denies that they were ever seen as a threat to smaller alliances. [/quote] Um. How that is in anyway a response to my post you quoted is beyond me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilhelm the Demented Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 [quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1280739035' post='2398181'] Um. How that is in anyway a response to my post you quoted is beyond me. [/quote] You're just being dense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D34th Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 (edited) Fun statements of alliances who change sides right before war: [list=1] [*]We don't know that war would happen [*]We thought that the side we chose was the weaker one [/list] Fun statements of alliances who canceled with NPO right before war: [list=1] [*]Even if they treated us like !@#$ since day 1 of our treaty we just realized that now. [*]We supported NPO though many curbstomps but when they tried to attack OV over a spy incident we couldn't support it because it's outrageous! [/list] Edited August 2, 2010 by D34th Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilhelm the Demented Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 (edited) Fun misconstrued facts presented by multiple, unoriginal detractors in every thread: [quote name='D34th' timestamp='1280740254' post='2398194'] Fun statements of alliances who change sides right before war: [list=1] [*]We don't know that war would happen [*]We thought that the side we chose was the weaker one [/list] Fun statements of alliances who canceled with NPO right before war: [list=1] [*]Even if they treated us like !@#$ since day 1 of our treaty we just realized that now. [*]We supported NPO though many curbstomps but when they tried to attack OV over a spy incident we couldn't support it because it's outrageous! [/list] [/quote] You so funny. I've openly admitted that NPO treated us very well when we started out, and we stood by them through some controversial campaigns, the straw broke the camels back when they hit OV completely inconsiderate of the situation it would place us in. Nice try, though. Edited August 2, 2010 by wilhelm the demented Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldConqueror Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 [quote name='wilhelm the demented' timestamp='1280740072' post='2398192'] You're just being dense. [/quote] Wait, I think I just figured it out! There's a bug in the Athenian mind control machines right? Of course, see that would explain both your argument, as well as the recent degeneration of Olaf into a gibbering buffoon (I charitably say degeneration, for all I know he's always been like that). I can only assume that soon we will see Spartans running around shouting 'MALFUNCTION! MALFUNCTION!', just before their heads explode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilhelm the Demented Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 (edited) [quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1280740474' post='2398198'] Wait, I think I just figured it out! There's a bug in the Athenian mind control machines right? Of course, see that would explain both your argument, as well as the recent degeneration of Olaf into a gibbering buffoon (I charitably say degeneration, for all I know he's always been like that). I can only assume that soon we will see Spartans running around shouting 'MALFUNCTION! MALFUNCTION!', just before their heads explode. [/quote] Now you're trying to be funny! God, this will be awesome when reporting back to the bruhs about how you just did something that obviously deserves an "Oh Snap!". I feel ya brother - I'm live to your jive man - I'm totally diggin' your style. You're quite the expert on wit, I must admit. Edited August 2, 2010 by wilhelm the demented Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D34th Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 [quote name='wilhelm the demented' timestamp='1280740450' post='2398197'] Fun misconstrued facts presented by multiple, unoriginal detractors in every thread: You so funny. I've openly admitted that NPO treated us very well when we started out, and we stood by them through some controversial campaigns, the straw broke the camels back when they hit OV completely inconsiderate of the situation it would place us in. Nice try, though. [/quote] You stood by them because one simple fact: They were the bigger side. You broke the camels because one simple fact: They weren't the bigger side anymore. That's why your alliance after being kicked out of green by GGA and with the support of NPO signed a treaty with them and joined a bloc lead by them. Your alliance have no self-proud just a pitiful survival instinct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterego Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 Sparta willingly and enthusiastically took part in beatdowns for years and did their best to shake down alliances after beatdowns for money and tech no matter how an alliance entered the war(mandatory defense) or how Sparta entered the war (optional aggression). Sooner or later Sparta will have to pay for this and while you are safely on someone else’s leash now you cant hide forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilhelm the Demented Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 (edited) [quote name='D34th' timestamp='1280741039' post='2398200'] You stood by them because one simple fact: They were the bigger side.[/quote] You're the expert, obviously. You're obviously saying this out of complete disinterest - you have no other intention than to expose Sparta for the manipulative, cunning, handsome, and generally suave conspirators that we are, no? [quote]You broke the camels because one simple fact: They weren't the bigger side anymore.[/quote] One could argue that, them being smaller it would alleviate some of the stress being applied to the back of the aforementioned camel - thereby decreasing the chances of the aformentioned back breaking. That said, refer to my first statement for a rebuttal to this clear clone of your first statement. [quote]That's why your alliance after being kicked out of green by GGA and with the support of NPO signed a treaty with them and joined a bloc lead by them. Your alliance have no self-proud just a pitiful survival instinct. [/quote] Thank you for telling me what my alliance does and doesn't have - I'm sure you've been a member of Sparta? I'm sure you know our perspective on things, I'm actually absolutely positive you are keen on learning that perspective in order to make a practical, disinterested, and educated post. Either that, or you like ragging on us for whatever reason, maybe because it makes you look just a tiny bit more significant? That could possibly be it. Edited August 2, 2010 by wilhelm the demented Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilhelm the Demented Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 [quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1280741158' post='2398201'] Sparta willingly and enthusiastically took part in beatdowns for years and did their best to shake down alliances after beatdowns for money and tech no matter how an alliance entered the war(mandatory defense) or how Sparta entered the war (optional aggression). Sooner or later Sparta will have to pay for this and while you are safely on someone else’s leash now you cant hide forever. [/quote] Another disinterested, educated opinion coming from the Peanut Gallery! Fantastic! Who's leash are we on now? Good sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro Nakara Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 (edited) inb4 he says CnG, of coarse that's the obvious answer isn't it. Haters gotta hate, rager's gotta RAGE!!!!!!!!! Edited August 2, 2010 by Hiro Nakara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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