Put The Blame On The Right Person

[Kevanovia]

[center][URL=http://img203.imageshack.us/i/soccerfail2.jpg/][IMG]http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/5806/soccerfail2.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/center]

Hello ladies and gentlemen.

As I'm sure the majority of you that are online at the moment have read, the [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=89245"]Guru Order showed some logs of a merge talk I had with them[/url]. These logs are valid (he did however leave some of the logs out, but understandably so as if he included them most likely people would have been so amused by the logs.) But the logs he posted are certainly valid.

First off I'd like to reaffirm that Peggy was gone during these talks and I didn't get her endorsement to go ahead and talk to Guru about merging. The question that most of you are probably asking yourself or have been posting in the thread is "why the frack did he do that?" The answer: The UPN is a solid alliance full of extremely nice people and willing to help build it into something truly great, but I guess I was looking for a shortcut. I was looking to help the fastest way possible. I've came across many alliances over my years on Planet Bob that are out for one thing and one thing only, "feeling important". For whatever reason I figured Guru Order were one of those alliances, and with a merge I felt like they would get what they were looking for and the UPN would get what they were looking for (active members). Perhaps I should of taken a look at their stats before I engaged talks with jman, I was under the impression that they were half the size they really were. By the time I figured it out, the talks had already began to roll, so I went with it. I talked to jman in query and asked him if he would like to continue the merge talks in a separate channel, I also said if he didn't want to do that I completely understood and thanked him for his time. He appeared in the channel (later on with their MoFA), so I figured that he was interested and asked DonVox to come in the channel. He said that he thought it wasn't a good idea, but I asked him to trust me and so he ended up going into the channel. He didn't even take part of the discussions, so as far as people blaming him for his participation - you're in the wrong. After awhile after realizing what I just did, I apologized to jman last night telling him that "I have never been so embarrassed". After that thread, I can now say with 100% certainty that I really have never been so embarrassed in my time on Planet Bob.

Now before this I had asked several of other alliances if they would be interested in merging, the first being my close friends in Gondor. When I asked, Chey seemed interested and I relayed the news over to Peggy. I got a few pats on the head, as I vouched for Chey and cited my previous jobs as MoFA at some well-known and successful alliances as my background in regards to FA. It made me feel important to the alliance and I felt great that my efforts were going to help excel UPN forward. I had been looking for a home ever since the IAA went boom, I had no doubts that these people were going to be like family to me.

The next day Chey had given notice that he thought the merge was a joke and that he wasn't interested. Me, not wanting to let Peggy or the UPN down, went to another alliance after that. Our MDoAP buddies, Menotah. I soon got to know them and knew they would be a great part of the community, my future home. We were in talks for quite awhile. Soon I realized that they weren't interested either. Peggy asked me not to ask anymore alliances when Menotah was deliberating on it. During the time when Menotah were thinking over the proposal, we (UPN community) were talking about how we needed this merge and that it would greatly help us. So figuring that I'd be soon be forgiven if I did get an alliance to merge into us, I went against Peggs' wishes.

I contacted Fallen Knights, R3's alliance as well as a few others. All getting the same answer: No. Then I thought I was doing it all wrong, that I needed to go after a medium sized alliance who were anxious to be on top. I thought the Guru Order were one of these alliances and so the events that were described earlier took place, etc. I am embarrassed, having served several terms at other great alliances makes it only worse. Bottom line, I should have known better. Not only was it ridiculous to propose a merge to an alliance we had no connections with, it was also dangerous. As Alfred said in the other thread, with all of the members joining that we had no past ties with...it could have caused chaos.

I am sincerely sorry to all of the teammates, friends and allies I have hurt with this mistake.
I apologize to Menotah, whom I know are a great alliance and are great allies. Asking all these other alliances to merge makes my offer to you guys seem pretty garbage. You deserve better than that.

I apologize to the Orange Defense Network who has done so much for us recently and helped out tremendously. Doing this puts them in a bad light as well (being connected to UPN) and I apologize. You guys are by far the best alliance in this game and I feel ashamed to be apart of something to put you in a bad position.

I apologize to all of our other allies (CDT, Polaris, Quantum, Phoenix Rising) to also putting them into a tough position.

I apologize to the members of UPN. Instead of helping, I ended up hurting us in the most terrible way. Apparently maybe I haven't been as helpful as I would like to have thought. You guys are awesome. Although I haven't been on IRC or our forums to contact you guys about this yet, I hope you guys will find it in your hearts to eventually forgive me. Because I do really care about UPN and I would love for it to be my home.

Most of all I apologize to Peggy. You have been getting such a rough time for reasons that are pretty bogus, and this doesn't help at all. You're a great leader Peggy, don't let anyone tell you otherwise. I'm sorry for the mess that this created and I'm sure it wasn't too great of a surprise to wake up and find this on the OWF. I think stepping down as your MoFA would be for the best. Maybe I could help out internally for awhile, until I get back in the swing of things. Again Peggy, I am so sorry.


The UPN wasn't at fault here, I was. If you're looking to cast blame on a group on an alliance, think again. Blame the person who is at fault. Because that is how I was acting, I was acting as an individual by not contacting the rest of my alliance. So as such, I should individually be taking the blame.

Edited July 19, 2010 by Kevanovia

[Schattenmann]

People have done worse in the course of trying to help their alliance.

Edited July 18, 2010 by Schattenmann

[mythicknight]

!@#$ happens. And like the above handsome man said, there's been worse.

[Chief Savage Man]

It was hilarious so don't worry about it.

[WARLORD44]

Kev can you get on IRC at all i need to speak with you.

[Hymenbreach]

Everyone buggers up. Just take a deep breath and take advice, where-ever you can.

[Max Cristof]

Best to leave it behind really.

[Un4Gvn1]

Kevanovia, of course I forgive you. I love the fact you are here to help us and I love the fact that you've made this thread asking the world to pick on you instead of UPN. Oh My. You are definitely a stand-up man, Kev.

I will be happy to talk to you and I think work in Internal Affairs might be a good idea, eh?
You have smarts and energy and we need lots of IA work.

[Schattenmann]

So I put the cart ahead of the horse and read this before I read GO's thread.

Let me just go ahead and revise my opinion on page 1 before we get to the point no one sees it:

GO are classless losers. You went to them representing UPN's interests, and made a proposal to them. If they didn't like what they heard, that should have been the end of the story. Their "hurfdurf UPN is desparate" thread and release of logs that are of no global importance whatsoever in an attempt to meet no goal except publicly humiliate you personally and UPN in general is an exercise in immaturity and idiocy. GO should be apologizing to you.

[bigwoody]

[quote name='Schattenmann' date='18 July 2010 - 01:53 PM' timestamp='1279479205' post='2377524']
So I put the cart ahead of the horse and read this before I read GO's thread.

Let me just go ahead and revise my opinion on page 1 before we get to the point no one sees it:

GO are classless losers. You went to them representing UPN's interests, and made a proposal to them. If they didn't like what they heard, that should have been the end of the story. Their "hurfdurf UPN is desparate" thread and release of logs that are of no global importance whatsoever in an attempt to meet no goal except publicly humiliate you personally and UPN in general is an exercise in immaturity and idiocy. GO should be apologizing to you.
[/quote]
This, but with the addendum that you really shouldn't be doing FA if you're that out of the loop (as Peggy seemed to hint to above).

[TheEraser]

Its all good UPN, you might not be as active as you once were, but you've got class unlike certain Aqua alliances. I dare say you're better off without that worhtless alliance

you're a good guy Kev, keep on keepin on

[Lennox]

Is there a tl;dr?

[iMatt]

[quote name='Schattenmann' date='18 July 2010 - 03:53 PM' timestamp='1279479205' post='2377524']
GO should be apologizing to you.
[/quote]
This is correct, it was not a classy move, whether or not it was sanctioned by the highest UPN official.

[caligula]

I think they were equally at fault. I viewed the GO thread as payment for the insulting notion that out of the blue that they have no idea what they were doing as an alliance when in fact they do.

Could they have been the bigger man?
Sure.
Would that have been fun?
No.
Do either really care what we think?
Probably not.

/thread.

[Penguin]

I've had some pretty embarrassing lapses in judgment myself. In fact, I'm pretty sure most of us have cringe moments in our past that we'd like to forget. I don't see any harm done, so don't come down on yourself too hard.

Edited July 18, 2010 by Penguin

[Chief Savage Man]

[quote name='caligula' date='18 July 2010 - 03:06 PM' timestamp='1279479978' post='2377554']
I think they were equally at fault. I viewed the GO thread as payment for the insulting notion that out of the blue that they have no idea what they were doing as an alliance when in fact they do.

Could they have been the bigger man?
Sure.
Would that have been fun?
No.
Do either really care what we think?
Probably not.

/thread.
[/quote]


Yeah this guy pretty much summed it up perfectly.

[atlashill]

It takes a lot of courage to admit fault and post as much in a public setting, especially one that is very much hostile toward your cause. For that, I applaud you.

That said, the foolhardy approach to pursuing merger talks was just that: foolhardy. After just a fortnight in the ranks of UPN, you took it upon yourself to 1) claim to be the MoFA (who is democratically elected*) when you were just a deputy, 2) be the primary spokesperson for the alliance, its government, all its members, and its history, culture, etc., when approaching alliances and asking them, without sufficient regard for their members, history, culture, etc., to abandon that in favour of UPN's, and 3) keep the top dogs out of the loop about this for fear of disappointing them. If I were Peggy_Sue, I'd make it clear to all levels of government that any negotiations regarding possible mergers shouldn't be handled by anyone but her, DonVox, Altheus, and anyone else who has been in UPN for at least a year.

I presume you have learned a lesson through this egg-on-face realisation, and I hope that you'll pick yourself up and focus your enthusiasm on something truly productive for you and your alliance mates.

[i]*And if you were in fact elected, be it MoFA or DMoFA, sounds like anyone wanting to legitimately feck around with Purple can sign up for UPN membership today, run for election, and do ten times more damage than Sir Galahad did in Legion, because I don't see any provision in UPN's charter that requires a minimum duration in UPN before running for office.[/i]

Edited July 18, 2010 by Atlashill

[abdur]

o/UPN
o/Kev
Everyone messes up sometime, the thing that counts is to brush yourself off and learn from the mistake, from this post, you seem to have done that.

@ GO, Private logs should stay the same: Private.

Best of luck to UPN in its future endeavours.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='bigwoody' date='18 July 2010 - 02:55 PM' timestamp='1279479328' post='2377529']
This, but with the addendum that you really shouldn't be doing FA if you're that out of the loop (as Peggy seemed to hint to above).
[/quote]
I don't follow UPN, but between the two threads it looks like UPN lost a chunk of gov. Sometimes people get thrown into situations they really shouldn't be in due to a gov exodus. Older people might've guessed my first reply was an allusion to my own disastrous situation as a MoFA in a period when basically no one else was left to be MoFA:
[quote name='bigwoody' date='07 April 3008 - 04:29 PM' post='518259']
Oh yes...I really look forward to a term with [Schattenmann] at the helm of an alliance's foreign affairs.
[/quote]

Altruistic and dedicated service like Kevanovia's always deserves praise even if there are mistakes made. And, yeah, MoFA's like your's truly have made much bigger mistakes. That GO is making such a big deal about this is actually laughable to me. I guess all that growth and treaties with the "5 most awesomest alliances" can't give GO what only time brings: Wisdom. Supercoolyellow proposed a mega-merger between CoJ, Big Top Order, and several other small AAs, then two weeks later he asked me who I was. When I was MoFA I started a fake war. GO's handling of this shows their immaturity, lack of experience and class, and disregard for decorum, [i]not [/i]Kevanovia's.

Kev, your humble and heartfelt recognition of your very small error is exemplary of your attitude of service and humility, and of your dedication to UPN over self.

[Scorponok]

Firstly i thought this was like a merger thread. But Kev, I know you; you only do things in the best interests of those close to you.

I am sorry to hear of your embarrassment, but you should know asking an alliance to merge into or with you is never a good idea, especially if you don't even know eachother.

Kev, take some time out; stop stressing.

Also Peggy Sue is wearing my flag <3.

[Believland]

UPN, you should talk to Athens. Havok would love to merge into you guys. Rsox wouldn't but that's okay.

[SiCkO]

still love ya kev

[Un4Gvn1]

[quote name='Atlashill' date='18 July 2010 - 02:09 PM' timestamp='1279480156' post='2377563']
It takes a lot of courage to admit fault and post as much in a public setting, especially one that is very much hostile toward your cause. For that, I applaud you.

That said, the foolhardy approach to pursuing merger talks was just that: foolhardy. After just a fortnight in the ranks of UPN, you took it upon yourself to 1) claim to be the MoFA (who is democratically elected*) when you were just a deputy, 2) be the primary spokesperson for the alliance, its government, all its members, and its history, culture, etc., when approaching alliances and asking them, without sufficient regard for their members, history, culture, etc., to abandon that in favour of UPN's, and 3) keep the top dogs out of the loop about this for fear of disappointing them. If I were Peggy_Sue, I'd make it clear to all levels of government that any negotiations regarding possible mergers shouldn't be handled by anyone but her, DonVox, Altheus, and anyone else who has been in UPN for at least a year.

I presume you have learned a lesson through this egg-on-face realisation, and I hope that you'll pick yourself up and focus your enthusiasm on something truly productive for you and your alliance mates.

[i]*And if you were in fact elected, be it MoFA or DMoFA, sounds like anyone wanting to legitimately feck around with Purple can sign up for UPN membership today, run for election, and do ten times more damage than Sir Galahad did in Legion, because I don't see any provision in UPN's charter that requires a minimum duration in UPN before running for office.[/i]
[/quote]

*sigh*

Atlashill, I have had great talks with you and you made that terrific theme for the treaty about Missouri's idiot governor (on another planet). ... Therefore I am disappointed at the 2 lengthy posts you've made regarding this matter.

Kev's apology was an outstanding show of his good character and your post needling him after his apology is disappointing to me.

As Schattenmann has said, there have been worse mistakes ... though I'm not thinking of anything Schattenmann did, but others, such as yours truely ... so the second swatting from you on this matter is worth this invitation I send to you. Please come to chat with me.
I hope we can move past this particular day with a smile and a handshake.


Edit to add this:

UPN no longer elects ministers. We are getting close to voting on a new charter that will have ministers appointed and other positions elected instead. If we continued electing ministers after the storms we've had lately then we'd all be stupid.

Edited July 18, 2010 by Peggy_Sue

[Un4Gvn1]

[quote name='Scorponok' date='18 July 2010 - 02:12 PM' timestamp='1279480341' post='2377570']


Also Peggy Sue is wearing my flag <3.
[/quote]

All in good fun and I your contribution to UPN's artwork.

[Scorponok]

You should like give me money and stuff

Glad you like it.