ERA / TSP MDoAP , Leaving Ragnablok

[Andover]

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[img]http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20071214115305/cybernations/images/0/0c/ROKINIT2.PNG[/img]
[img]http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100228004303/cybernations/images/3/37/ERAFlag.jpg[/img]
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First off Thank you to Ragnablok for the wonderful protection, you guys are awesome.

However time has come for ERA to move forward and we must leave Ragnablok



Next announcement: TSP/ERA MDoAP

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"The Equally Dark MDoAP"

[img]http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100507132946/cybernations/images/thumb/2/21/Flag_of_the_Shadow_Proclamation.svg/200px-Flag_of_the_Shadow_Proclamation.svg.png[/img]

[img]http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100228004303/cybernations/images/3/37/ERAFlag.jpg[/img]

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[quote]
Article 1: Sovereignty

Both Alliance's recognize each-other and will be ran by its own government.

Article 2: Mutual Defense

Both alliances must declare war to defend the other from a foreign aggressor

Article 3: Optional Aggression

Either alliance may assist the other optionally in an aggressive war.

Article 4: Intelligence

If intelligence of a threat or other important information pertaining to the other alliance is discovered it must be divulged.

Article 5: Aid

The 2 Alliances may provide aid to the other during times of war and peace.

Article 6: Termination

May be Terminated with 72 hours grace by either government via proper procedure of that government as per their charter.

Article 7: Exception

Article 6 may be negated if either alliance declares war on a alliance with a MDP or higher level treaty with the other alliance in this MDoAP.
[/quote]

Signed for Equal Rights Alliance,

Andover, President


Signed for The Shadow Proclamation,
[img]http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii55/LT_imageserver/Userbar-TSP.png[/img]
JDorian, Triumvir
Grant, Triumvir
Kaplechistan, Triumvir
Shadeslayers, Lord of Foreign Affairs
Bobogoobo, Lord of Defense
Magister, Lord of Internal Affairs
Magister, Lord of Recruitment and Education
Bobogoobo, Lord of Finance

Edited May 10, 2010 by Andover

[lonewolfe2015]

You have 6 nations and less than 100,000 strength...

Who are TSP?

You have no signatures...

Didn't you just sign into Ragnablok?

Wrong in so many ways.

[Andover]

TSP is the reformed alliance of ADI basically, they still carry most of ADI's treatys.

The sigs are now added.


Van Hoo made a very valid point in IRC that got me thinking and ultimately lead to this decision.

16:09 VanHooIII[RoK] If you have a military treaty with an alliance, you don't really need a protectorate

[Lurunin]

TSP = The Shadow Proclamation if i presume correctly?

kind of young to be leaving your protectorate status arent you?

either way best of luck

[Van Hoo III]

Essentially, ERA used RoK for protection because TSP was taking too long to sign off on a MDoAP. ERA were made aware [b]before[/b] signing with us that we don't allow protectorates to sign MDoAPs.

[quote][14:03] <Andover[ERA]> u around?
[14:04] <VanHooIII[RoK]> Hey
[14:05] <Andover[ERA]> Would RoK be ok with ERA signing a MDoAP with TSP?
[14:05] <VanHooIII[RoK]> A MDoAP?
[14:05] <VanHooIII[RoK]> No ... :/
[14:10] <VanHooIII[RoK]> If you have a military treaty with an alliance, you don't really need a protectorate
[14:10] <VanHooIII[RoK]> We typically only allow a PIAT or ODP until you're on yuor own
[14:10] <VanHooIII[RoK]> your*
[14:26] <Andover[ERA]> hey
[14:26] <VanHooIII[RoK]> Hey
[14:26] <Andover[ERA]> so your point you stated got me thinking, you are correct
[14:27] <Andover[ERA]> if ERA has a MDoAP we wouldnt really need a protectorate
[14:27] <Andover[ERA]> ERA is gonna withdraw from the blok
11[14:27] <VanHooIII[RoK]> I already know, and this was all poorly handled by you guys
[14:28] <Andover[ERA]> I know, under the circumstances I did what I had to do as the leader
11[14:28] <VanHooIII[RoK]> No, you used RoK
[14:29] <Andover[ERA]> if you feel that way then I guess I can say now its even for you guys Using Warbuck and ADI
11[14:29] <VanHooIII[RoK]> Um, excuse me?
11[14:29] <VanHooIII[RoK]> Did you just really say that?
11[14:29] <VanHooIII[RoK]> I have some advice for you ...
11[14:29] <VanHooIII[RoK]> Say thank you for protecting us, go post your announcement, and walk away
[14:30] <Andover[ERA]> am
11[14:30] <VanHooIII[RoK]> Good idea
Session Close: Mon May 10 14:38:13 2010[/quote]

Best of luck to ERA and TSP. You'll both need it with a guy like Andover at the helm.

[Dauntless]

Yes, Andover, you have clearly outlined the duty of a leader. Start drama with alliances you wouldn't be able to handle even if your alliance wasn't newly formed. Well done. I'd wish you the best of luck in the future, but your future is looking pretty bleak with you at the helm.

Edited May 10, 2010 by Dauntless

[Felix von Agnu]

I think you took the wrong lesson away from Hoo's quote.

[Lurunin]

while it's one thing to want to continue a friendship, burning bridges with other alliances is not usually the best idea. you should've atleast waited until you reached 350k NS minimum to break off and on good terms

[memoryproblems]

I can't say I have anything bad to say about an alliance distancing itself from Ragnarok.

Good luck ERA.

[Van Hoo III]

[quote name='memoryproblems' date='10 May 2010 - 03:07 PM' timestamp='1273529248' post='2293967']
I can't say I have anything bad to say about an alliance distancing itself from Ragnarok.

Good luck ERA.
[/quote]


I can't say I have anything good to say about memoryproblems. I guess we're both content.

[D34th]

It's amazing how some micro alliance leaders are competent.

[Lennox]

That flag is exceptionally ugly. The name of the treaty is exceptionally good.

[R3nowned]

Tends to happen with alliances that part from RoK. Drama starts to happen. Happened with TOOL last year this time, then ADI, now happening with ERA - to a much lesser extent, lol.

Can't say I support this either way, even if I do disagree with RoK. Your alliance is so tiny, you should probably have signed a protectorate with an alliance that's willing to let you sign the MDoAP with TSP, or just get a protectorate with TSP.

Edited May 10, 2010 by R3nowned

[Dauntless]

Ah yes, ERA using Rok to protect their members until they could secure a treaty with another alliance is Rok's fault for drama ensuing? I think what really tends to happen is people not liking the fact they have to pay for their stupidity and that Rok doesn't back down from being messed with.

[El Hefe]

[quote name='R3nowned' date='10 May 2010 - 05:56 PM' timestamp='1273532201' post='2294045']
Tends to happen with alliances that part from RoK. Drama starts to happen. Happened with TOOL last year this time, then ADI, now happening with ERA - to a much lesser extent, lol.
[/quote]

While I wasn't in RoK for the TOOL treaty, I can say that the ADI drama was very much with HOW ADI went its separate ways with RoK.

If ERA leaving the Blok in this fashion even ranks on your drama meter then you might want to get it re-calibrated. When the protectorate was announced, I thought "Sweet, another protectorate." Now that they've left (all things considered) the only emotion I can dredge up is a resounding "Meh."

Good luck ERA - from the logs I've seen you're gonna need it.

[R3nowned]

[quote name='El Hefe' date='11 May 2010 - 10:40 AM' timestamp='1273534833' post='2294103']
While I wasn't in RoK for the TOOL treaty, I can say that the ADI drama was very much with HOW ADI went its separate ways with RoK.

If ERA leaving the Blok in this fashion even ranks on your drama meter then you might want to get it re-calibrated. When the protectorate was announced, I thought "Sweet, another protectorate." Now that they've left (all things considered) the only emotion I can dredge up is a resounding "Meh."

Good luck ERA - from the logs I've seen you're gonna need it.
[/quote]
We're desperately needing drama from places other than Gramlins lol

and the "drama" is based on the comments of your fellow alliance mates above.

The TOOL treaty thing is long past, and it should stay that way. Pretty much, I think both sides developed an enmity and grudge against each other after that. In the active body of the membership at any rate, but past is past.

Edited May 11, 2010 by R3nowned

[Kzoppistan]

I'm rather neutral in my opinion of Ragnarok, and considering that our allies often oppose each other, I don't often say anything nice about them. But there's no doubt that Ragnablok is a great protectorate system and well tended to by Rok. You should have stayed with them a longer until you were wiser and stronger, or at least discussed your intentions with them [b]before[/b] making the decision. Had you done so, you would have had a better, stronger, ally in Rok and, possibly, another ally in TSP, too.

Now, what's done is done, so I would advise you to at least redouble your diplomatic efforts to Rok and try to work with what ever esteem they have left for you guys.

Good luck.

[Van Hoo III]

[quote name='R3nowned' date='10 May 2010 - 05:12 PM' timestamp='1273536757' post='2294139']
We're desperately needing drama from places other than Gramlins lol

and the "drama" is based on the comments of your fellow alliance mates above.

The TOOL treaty thing is long past, and it should stay that way. Pretty much, I think both sides developed an enmity and grudge against each other after that. In the active body of the membership at any rate, but past is past.
[/quote]


I don't mean this in an insulting way, but Ragnarok doesn't really think about or discuss TOOL very much. If there is a grudge, it is one sided.

[Vesalius]

Looks like ERA has some quality leadership there, only genius could make remarks such as Andover did.

Good luck.

[R3nowned]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' date='11 May 2010 - 11:28 AM' timestamp='1273537697' post='2294162']
I don't mean this in an insulting way, but Ragnarok doesn't really think about or discuss TOOL very much. If there is a grudge, it is one sided.
[/quote]
At the time there was - tempers were up, and insults thrown around. As I said, past is past, and I don't think TOOL has talked about RoK... well, since the incident. This is off topic though.

As I said earlier ERA, you guys should've stayed under protection for longer. If not with RoK, then with someone else.

[Wabooz]

[quote name='D34th' date='10 May 2010 - 05:36 PM' timestamp='1273530973' post='2294013']
It's amazing how some micro alliance leaders are competent.
[/quote]
Since when did the size of AA matter when it comes to competence?

Anyhow, Good luck ERA.

[Randalla]

I believe it would have been acceptable to keep your treaty within the limits of what is allowed in the Ragnablok, then upgrade upon your legitimate graduation. There are ways to have your cake and eat it, too, as they say.

It's very possible to graduate from the Ragnablok without any drama, while still maintaining good relations with Rok. I promise.




Good luck.

[Lucas Perry]

[quote name='Wabooz' date='10 May 2010 - 08:01 PM' timestamp='1273539664' post='2294209']
Since when did the size of AA matter when it comes to competence?

Anyhow, Good luck ERA.
[/quote]
He means with how he handled his leaving RagnaBlok.

Good luck, I guess. Looks like you're in for a fun ride.

[Lusitan]

And Andover does not fail to deliver. Impressive, I can say I was seeing something like this coming, but not to this extent since I had no idea you were a RoK protectorate. First was the WAPA desertion in the middle of the war. Then trying to get in as mediator for the conflict you had deserted from while acting as you were the wronged party. And now this. Fantastic.

[Hakim]

Well ERA I think you could have done this in a much better way. RoK have always taken great pride, and rightly so, in their protectorate bloc, for a very good reason. They are extremely good at protecting and giving advice to young alliances. The pity in this is that you did not heed the advice or learn from your short time under their protection.

RoK, what can I say...you cannot teach them all, for some have no capacity for learning.

Van Hoo is wise, you should heed his advice on FA and alliance building.