The New Grämlins

[scytale]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='04 May 2010 - 11:56 AM' timestamp='1272988586' post='2286435']

[quote]I think you might enjoy a piece in next Don't Panic! (honestly.[edit: the second one, not the one with restaurant]).[/quote]
Uh oh.
[/quote]
Who? What? Where? * Goes to check the submissions with the editor's knife in one hand, a vodka bottle in the other *

[shilo]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='04 May 2010 - 06:42 PM' timestamp='1272987754' post='2286423']
Doesn't look that way to me. I see a bunch of top-end IRON nations in PM who are bill-locked and a bunch more with no warchest (including some in DAWN)
[/quote]
I am not afraid to say that our warchest setup, considering we went through 2 months of fully engaged nuclear war, is still better than yours. Don't brag about warchests when most of you guys don't have them
[quote name='Matthew PK' date='04 May 2010 - 06:42 PM' timestamp='1272987754' post='2286423']
Crazy like a fox.
[/quote]It hurts my brain, but I agree with you. I do, 100%.

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='04 May 2010 - 06:42 PM' timestamp='1272987754' post='2286423']
Your calculations are off. How long do you think 1 billion dongs at ZI lasts? How about 2 billion? How about 4 billion?
[/quote] I know, have been working off that theory for the last 80 days or so. If you require info, contact me anytime

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='04 May 2010 - 06:42 PM' timestamp='1272987754' post='2286423']
You heard it here, folks! He wants to keep GRE in nuclear anarchy [b]forever[/b]

[/quote]
Maybe a bit overstated, but generally, that's about the timeframe of war we are talking about with you guys, yes



[quote name='Matthew PK' date='04 May 2010 - 06:42 PM' timestamp='1272987754' post='2286423']
If you had any spy reports you'd have a better understanding of why what you're saying is nonsense.
[/quote]
We have, hence why we can actually say informed stuff, opposed to your bad guesses
[quote name='Matthew PK' date='04 May 2010 - 06:42 PM' timestamp='1272987754' post='2286423']
What are your terms?
[/quote] For now, almost unachievable for you guys: become sane


[quote name='Matthew PK' date='04 May 2010 - 06:56 PM' timestamp='1272988586' post='2286435']
In this very thread people have suggested that GRE would force IRON to disarm but would keep attacking them before they were allowed to surrender. There are even some claims in this thread that we're deliberately not telling *how* to disarm so that they can't. It's a long thread; some things get lost.
[/quote] With you guys, everything is possible, and anything you say can generally not be trusted to be either true or based on actual facts.

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='04 May 2010 - 06:56 PM' timestamp='1272988586' post='2286435']
Unable to defend themselves? Please. Hasn't the last 10 pages of posturing been about how IRON/DAWN have more than 3 nations for each GRE nation and how many GRE nations aren't fighting back well? Yeah, because they would all immediately have to roll over and die if they only had 8 naval ships and 3 nukes per Gremlin...
[u]and that's [b]assuming[/b] demil orders include decomming navies and nukes. They will *never* be "defenseless" and you know it.[/u]
[/quote]
incredible


[quote name='Matthew PK' date='04 May 2010 - 06:56 PM' timestamp='1272988586' post='2286435']
That's actually one of the very few "good" points (by technicality ) in the thread; but it still doesn't address the point that if we actually demanded those things that people would have a pretty sound reason to attack us.
[/quote] Technicality is the only limit possible for the scope of madness assembled in your alliance, for anything else, you have yourself proven, your leader even more, there simply is no limit imaginable.

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='04 May 2010 - 06:56 PM' timestamp='1272988586' post='2286435']
Addressed above. Plus, haven't you noticed all the chest-thumping by IRON/DAWN about how none of them are hurting? W[u]hat makes you think they'd have negative improvements?[/u]
[/quote]
Another gemstone, please, keep them coming

[Cormalek]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='04 May 2010 - 05:56 PM' timestamp='1272988586' post='2286435'][quote name='Cormalek' date='04 May 2010 - 09:18 AM' timestamp='1272957494' post='2286218']I think you might enjoy a piece in next Don't Panic! (honestly.[edit: the second one, not the one with restaurant]).[/quote]
Uh oh.[/quote]
Oh [i]come[/i] [b]on[/b]! Is it that hard to believe that I could say something irony-free (get it? IRON-y? ). Seriously though, that quoted sentence was a sarcasm-free.

[quote name='scytale' date='04 May 2010 - 06:58 PM' timestamp='1272992276' post='2286497']
Who? What? Where? * Goes to check the submissions with the editor's knife in one hand, a vodka bottle in the other *[/quote]
Et Tu, Scytalé contra me?

-- -- --

[size="1"]Uh, to vannilla:[/size]
[quote name='Matthew PK' date='04 May 2010 - 05:56 PM' timestamp='1272988586' post='2286435']What makes you think they'd have negative improvements?[/quote]
Well Delirious soldiers have destroyed a couple of mailboxes in past months, and no one sane invests in infrastructure when his country is at war.
edit:
[quote name='hilowe' date='04 May 2010 - 08:14 PM' timestamp='1272996862' post='2286549']
unless you feel the need to fire off some nukes, and have less then 1k infra....[/quote]
Not relevant in this context [ooc: negative improvements].

Edited May 4, 2010 by Cormalek

[hilowe]

[quote name='Cormalek' date='04 May 2010 - 12:39 PM' timestamp='1272994736' post='2286527']
...and no one sane invests in infrastructure when his country is at war.
[/quote]

unless you feel the need to fire off some nukes, and have less then 1k infra....

[Zangmonkey]

[quote name='hilowe' date='04 May 2010 - 11:14 AM' timestamp='1272996862' post='2286549']
unless you feel the need to fire off some nukes, and have less then 1k infra....
[/quote]


Or, ya know, all the claims from IRON/DAWN that they're rebuilding without obstacles from GRE.

[shilo]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='04 May 2010 - 09:25 PM' timestamp='1272997482' post='2286554']
Or, ya know, all the claims from IRON/DAWN that they're rebuilding without obstacles from GRE.
[/quote]
We are rebuilding, much slower than we would be without you guys, but we are. So without obstacles is not true. But yes, we currently are heavily investing in infrastructure while being at war with you guys, should tell you about how the war is going for you.

[Dom Zak]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='03 May 2010 - 06:35 PM' timestamp='1272926090' post='2285415']
I don't understand why you think GRE [b]wants[/b] to keep attacking IRON.
[/quote]

Then why can you not accept the white peace IRON/DAWN have proposed?

[Zangmonkey]

[quote name='shilo' date='04 May 2010 - 11:39 AM' timestamp='1272998368' post='2286563']
We are rebuilding, much slower than we would be without you guys, but we are. So without obstacles is not true. But yes, we currently are heavily investing in infrastructure while being at war with you guys, should tell you about how the war is going for you.
[/quote]


If you're building infra and collecting taxes then I would contend that negative improvements are not really going to be an issue.
Again, even asserting they *would* be an issue is an assumption based on the premise that we'll demand improvement deletions (which I suppose is possible but not a certainty)

Edited May 4, 2010 by Matthew PK

[Zangmonkey]

[quote name='Dom Zak' date='04 May 2010 - 11:39 AM' timestamp='1272998380' post='2286565']
Then why can you not accept the white peace IRON/DAWN have proposed?
[/quote]

Because "white peace" is not an acceptable resolution to me.

[shilo]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='04 May 2010 - 09:41 PM' timestamp='1272998461' post='2286566']
If you're building infra and collecting taxes then I would contend that negative improvements are not really going to be an issue.
Again, even asserting they *would* be an issue is an assumption based on the premise that we'll demand improvement deletions (which I suppose is possible but not a certainty)
[/quote]
Have you any understanding of nation building at all?

That said, with you guys, the basic rule is: assume the worst, combine it with something unimaginable, then add two spoons of insanity and one of ram , and a cup of MPK
That is what I expect from you guys.

[The Big Bad]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='04 May 2010 - 02:47 PM' timestamp='1272998802' post='2286572']
Because "white peace" is not an acceptable resolution to me.
[/quote]

I agree. I don't think anyone thinks you deserve a white peace at this point. How much in reps do you think you should pay for the crimes of your alliance?

[Zangmonkey]

[quote name='The Big Bad' date='04 May 2010 - 12:05 PM' timestamp='1272999884' post='2286584']
I agree. I don't think anyone thinks you deserve a white peace at this point. How much in reps do you think you should pay for the crimes of your alliance?
[/quote]

Weren't there a few pages of "LoL Crimes, what CN laws?" when GRE used that term?

Your hypocrisy would be funny if it weren't so pathetic.

[jimbacher]

I think IRON/DAWN should demand an unconditional surrender from grem.

[Zangmonkey]

[quote name='shilo' date='04 May 2010 - 11:48 AM' timestamp='1272998913' post='2286574']

Have you any understanding of nation building at all?[/quote]

No, none at all. All the accusations that GRE care too much about our infra to fight are funny because, deep down, we don't know anything about nation building and have no infra. In fact, the highest ANS on the planet was just a coincidence.

[quote]That said, with you guys, the basic rule is: assume the worst, combine it with something unimaginable, then add two spoons of insanity and one of ram , and a cup of MPK
That is what I expect from you guys.[/quote]

If we had any sort of track record for being harsh then your statement might make a little sense.

[Delta1212]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='04 May 2010 - 03:30 PM' timestamp='1273001428' post='2286611']
Your hypocrisy would be funny if it weren't so pathetic.
[/quote]
Singularity, meet kettle.

[Geoffron X]

[quote name='jimbacher' date='04 May 2010 - 03:31 PM' timestamp='1273001475' post='2286612']
I think IRON/DAWN should demand an unconditional surrender from grem.
[/quote]
So, wait. If they don't accept it, wouldn't it be breaking their codex?

[Zangmonkey]

[quote name='Delta1212' date='04 May 2010 - 12:33 PM' timestamp='1273001601' post='2286617']
Singularity, meet kettle.
[/quote]


I haven't really seen anybody accuse me of being a hypocrite. Your quip doesn't really apply.

[Baldr]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='04 May 2010 - 01:13 AM' timestamp='1272953616' post='2286176']
I disagree.
Firstly, by our codex we cannot give harsh terms that we, ourselves, would be unwilling to accept.[/quote]

I'm sure you wouldn't give unconditional surrender to an alliance that hates you and shows no sign of being sane or reasonable. But that's what you are requiring of IRON. Your Codex doesn't mean jack at this point.

[quote]If we told them to decom wonders or become our tech farm and they said "pound sand" you tell me, literally, what [b]could[/b] we do?[/quote]

Attack their high end nations who are now in peace mode, at a time when they would have no military improvements, no navy, no nukes.

[quote]We are resolute and they are unreasonably cowardly in this circumstance. [/quote]

You keep saying that. "They won't quit fighting, so they are cowards". It makes no sense. Cowards won't fight back when bullied. IRON is clearly fighting back. You look much more like cowards to me.

[quote]I've already been near ZI and back once in this war and I can afford to do it again; and if somebody intends to keep me there they had better have some volunteers ready to sell their infra down to my ZI range because I can afford to stay there a loooooong time. [/quote]

You have 8,000 tech. Lets say you lose 1,000 of that on the way to ZI, leaving you with 7,000. That puts you at 35,000 NS, on tech alone, at ZI. Nuclear capable nations in the 35k NS range are common. They won't have to sell infra to get to you for a long time. And by then, then can fund some smaller nations to get MP's for them. Sure, you can sit at 0 infra, or 1,000 infra if you want to fight back at all, for a long time. But while you are there, you won't be hurting IRON or DAWN. They'll be holding you down and bleeding you dry.



[quote]Do you actually believe that Torino can't afford to rebuild his infra? Do you think that any of us can't?[/quote]

Once? Sure. Twice? Sure. 10 times? Forever? No, you can't sustain it forever, and once they grab you once, I don't think you will ever recover.


[quote name='Matthew PK' date='04 May 2010 - 01:47 PM' timestamp='1272998802' post='2286572']
Because "white peace" is not an acceptable resolution to me.[/quote]

In that case, you should start thinking about how many reps you are willing to pay, because white peace is the best you can hope for, and better than you deserve.

[Delta1212]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='04 May 2010 - 03:38 PM' timestamp='1273001892' post='2286626']
I haven't really seen anybody accuse me of being a hypocrite. Your quip doesn't really apply.
[/quote]
You should pay more attention.

[Zangmonkey]

[quote name='Delta1212' date='04 May 2010 - 12:40 PM' timestamp='1273001996' post='2286630']
You should pay more attention.
[/quote]

Enlighten me.

[amad123]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='04 May 2010 - 03:33 PM' timestamp='1273001600' post='2286616']
In fact, the highest ANS on the planet was just a coincidence.
[/quote]
Using the past tense was correct, but it's no coincidence that it is falling.

On a side note only someone that really valued their pixels and stats would know that. We learn a little more about what Matt deems to be important.

[shilo]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='04 May 2010 - 10:33 PM' timestamp='1273001600' post='2286616']
No, none at all. All the accusations that GRE care too much about our infra to fight are funny because, deep down, we don't know anything about nation building and have no infra. In fact, the highest ANS on the planet was just a coincidence.
[/quote]
Unless you are just for some very odd reason acting incompetent, most of your posts so far make it clear that whatever high ANS gRAMlins had in the past, you at best didn't hurt the effort with your applied knowledge.

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='04 May 2010 - 10:33 PM' timestamp='1273001600' post='2286616']
If we had any sort of track record for being harsh then your statement might make a little sense.
[/quote]
Demanding the strictest and worst surrender from two alliances for over a month now is all the track record required.

Edited May 4, 2010 by shilo

[The Big Bad]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='04 May 2010 - 03:30 PM' timestamp='1273001428' post='2286611']
Weren't there a few pages of "LoL Crimes, what CN laws?" when GRE used that term?

Your hypocrisy would be funny if it weren't so pathetic.
[/quote]

No. That must have been one of the other hundred people here. I know its hard to keep up with everyone hating on you. Perhaps you should take notes. Although I have taken your alliance mates use of the word crime for my own use. I thought you would see the irony in that however, that would have required you have been paying attention instead of flailing about yelling hypocrisy. It has been a long time since you have gotten anything right has it not? Must be getting very frustrating.

[Zangmonkey]

[quote name='Baldr' date='04 May 2010 - 12:39 PM' timestamp='1273001968' post='2286628']
I'm sure you wouldn't give unconditional surrender to an alliance that hates you and shows no sign of being sane or reasonable. But that's what you are requiring of IRON. Your Codex doesn't mean jack at this point.[/quote]

Where did I say I hated IRON/DAWN?
Very few people have tried to reason with me; most have just flamed and trolled.
And the codex does mean something to me, and my opinion counts. We're requiring an unconditional surrender. That is not a harsh term nor is it a term I wouldn't accept. Furthermore, the terms we do give them after they surrender will conform to the moral standards set forth in our codex.



[quote]Attack their high end nations who are now in peace mode, at a time when they would have no military improvements, no navy, no nukes.[/quote]
The notion that they need to destroy military improvements, navy and nukes or exit PM is speculation a this point (though I'd guess that nukes/navy and PM are at least feasible compared to most other wild speculations in this thread).
I don't know why you think I'd rather fight IRON's top tier instead of achieving their surrender; you have no basis for that accusation.
Furthermore, They've been in PM a long time. They don't have negative improvements by our doing (even if they had to delete them most wouldn't go negative) and they can purchase 8 ships and 1 (2 in most cases) per day. They would hardly be "defenseless" in the undesirable situation that they refuse our terms. In the lower tier, we've all seen the claims that GRE can't win because A or B; but namely because of sheer numbers. If GRE nations in the lower tier are outnumbered 3:1, tell me how much of a difference 3 nukes and 24 ships really makes if IRON/DAWN is so convinced that GRE will crumble.



[quote]You keep saying that. "They won't quit fighting, so they are cowards". It makes no sense. Cowards won't fight back when bullied. IRON is clearly fighting back. You look much more like cowards to me. [/quote]

I'm not calling them cowards for staying in PM. I'm saying that if they are serious about their posturing that they heavily outnumber us, and that we are outmatched, then the lie that they're afraid of demilitarizing makes no sense unless they are cowards. As stated above, a ratio like IRON/DAWN to our lower tier makes demil less significant at the level because they would still have a significant nuclear and naval arsenal should they decide to "instantly" retrain their militaries. Furthermore, GRE has no motivation to enact harsh terms; we are in face disincentivized to do so (even if we wanted to) because it would give IRON/DAWN reason to reinstate hostilities and it would actually give people a real reason to oppose us (rather than the tough-talk and chest-beating here). If we were to demand something like disbandment or permanent tech farming then CnG can and should roll us themselves (as they have no treaty with us and nobody would stop them)



[quote]You have 8,000 tech. Lets say you lose 1,000 of that on the way to ZI, leaving you with 7,000. That puts you at 35,000 NS, on tech alone, at ZI. Nuclear capable nations in the 35k NS range are common. They won't have to sell infra to get to you for a long time. And by then, then can fund some smaller nations to get MP's for them. Sure, you can sit at 0 infra, or 1,000 infra if you want to fight back at all, for a long time. But while you are there, you won't be hurting IRON or DAWN. They'll be holding you down and bleeding you dry.[/quote]

I understand the numbers. I have no desire to "hold them down and bleed them dry" that's merely a consequence; not my goal.
On the other hand, it seems to me like many people here are excusing that as a goal so long as it's them doing it to us. Who's the pot and who's the kettle?




[quote]Once? Sure. Twice? Sure. 10 times? Forever? No, you can't sustain it forever, and once they grab you once, I don't think you will ever recover.[/quote]

They want me to never recover? Sounds very humane of them!
Can't sustain it *forever*, sure. But it's not as if this war is really impeding my growth either.



[quote]In that case, you should start thinking about how many reps you are willing to pay, because white peace is the best you can hope for, and better than you deserve.[/quote]

I'll cross that reps bridge if it comes to that. It's not up to me.

Better than I deserve? As if I've done something so terribly insidious! Here there are an abundance of people telling IRON/DAWN to keep GRE in an eternal war, to give us perma ZI, to force us to disband, to keep us in nuclear anarchy [b]forever[/b] and you're still getting uppity about what we [b]might[/b] do.

Please spare me the self-righteous tripe about what I "deserve."
Until GRE actually makes some harsh surrender terms (which we have no history of doing) you're just fearmongering about change.

[Zangmonkey]

[quote name='shilo' date='04 May 2010 - 12:54 PM' timestamp='1273002857' post='2286643']
Demanding the strictest and worst surrender from two alliances for over a month now is all the track record required.
[/quote]

Either we have different history books or you choose not to read yours.
This world has seen demands of wonder deletions, permanent tech farms, disbandment, viceroys and EZI.