That's Enough of That

[Jyrinx]

[quote name='Bower3aj' date='17 February 2010 - 06:03 PM' timestamp='1266447839' post='2188205']
He was asked to leave the alliance and was shown what Veneke gave us. He said that Veneke had lied to us but had no way of proving it. So he left since he saw that he couldn't defend himself and attacked Veneke for lying to get him expelled from the alliance.[/quote]

Meh, that's pretty weak of him to be honest but ok.


[quote]
Again, he was expelled due to the incident.
[/quote]

I think you misunderstood me. Even if you accept your version of events, he wasn't actually in the alliance at the time and so there was no danger of the immediate sort that would warrant this response


[quote]
It means that he was expelled from the alliance based off of a lie, which would mean that forcing his expulsion would have been not a threat to our alliance, but an aggressive act already committed against our alliance.

...


ok

...

both of which were violated when we were lied to for the purpose of ZIing a member. That is an aggressive act.[/quote]

Again putting aside that the evidence is less than overwhelming here, viewing this as an aggressive act vs. viewing this as such an aggressive act of such a degree that it warranted breaking those agreements with no consultation with 57th are different. I'm criticizing the way you went about doing what you did. If you had officially canceled your MDoAP and let the 48 hour period elapse, had actually talked to 57th about the incident during the period, and [i]then[/i] still attacked 57th over it, things would be different.


[quote]
Whether or not you believe the SSs to be fake, we believe them to be. Which means that according to our beliefs our actions are justified. [/quote]

Then your beliefs are weird. If you seriously can't see how insanely disproportionate your response was then you must think your alliance is insanely fragile and will collapse at a moment's notice. There are tons of mitigating circumstances surrounding this particular incident and no sane person would view this as anything close to an immediate threat to GLOF. Even if you felt this was aggressive action, even if you for some reason are convinced by what I consider sub-par evidence, your response was just ridiculous. What, did you think GLOF would collapse if you spent 48 hours canceling the treaty? That actually confronting 57th over the issue might result in the utter destruction of the Lodge? Give me a break, you guys overreacted big time, [i]even if we accept your version of events as true.[/i]

Which of the following seems more reasonable given the circumstances:

1) GLOF cancels their treaty with their MDoAP partner in 57th, actually makes an attempt spanning more than a few hours to talk to 57th. After talking to them, GLOF still feels violated and thus declares war after the mandatory 48 hour period passes

OR

2) GLOF views a conspiracy to ZI a single member as an imminent threat to the security of GLOF, one that requires emergency action and so cancels their treaty with 57th, doesn't engage 57th's government, and then declares war on 57th.

Number 2 is what you guys did and it's just dumb. You might be able to make a case for why you would have to break the treaty and attack immediately in a legitimate ticking time-bomb situation, but this wasn't even close to that.

[quote]
Either way though, this matter is closed. We kept our word. That word being that we would give the 57th peace when they either admitted their wrongs or were bloodied enough. Veneke took that as a threat of Eternal war. Clearly, that was not the case and any that believed so were naive.
[/quote]

Indeed, the matter is closed and you guys end up looking like incompetent trigger-happy fools. The funny thing is you look pretty bad even in your own version of events. But whatever.

Edited February 18, 2010 by Jyrinx

[Mayzie]

[quote name='The Great One' date='17 February 2010 - 11:05 PM' timestamp='1266447958' post='2188210']
Multiple posts
[/quote]

I don't have the time to respond to you right now in full, I'm on my phone and going to bed but as an ally of yours and GLOF's, I've found many of your comments to be derogatory towards my other allies, yet you seem to ignore me completely. I'd like it if you could let those who actually want peace here (57th members and me it seems!) sort it out without carrying on hurling abuse where you think you can.

Calling out CtG in everyone one of your posts, poking fun at him, trying to get a rise out of him is really starting to piss me off now is what I wanted to say last night but couldn't be arsed to quote all your posts and still can't.

Edited February 18, 2010 by Mayzie

[evilsquirrel]

[quote name='Charles the Great' date='17 February 2010 - 11:55 AM' timestamp='1266436502' post='2187838']
you lied to us. we came. we broke your stuff. we left.

[/quote]

Broke our stuff????.......Looks at 360 OMG THE RRoD!!!!!!....wait....no, thats been there....I dont see anything broken really. I see some extra dust but apart from that everything works the same. You good sir, you fail and I salute you for it

[Theoroshia]

[quote]you lied to us. we came. we broke your stuff. we left.[/quote]
We didn't lie. You sure did come, unexpectedly and some would say sneakily. About the only thing you broke was our absolute trust in GLoF. As for our stuff, well, that was all nuked to smithereens days ago. And finally, yes, you did indeed quit the field of battle. Here's your knives back, in case you need to stab more people in the back.

[NoFish]

[quote name='Bower3aj' date='17 February 2010 - 06:03 PM' timestamp='1266447839' post='2188205']
both of which were violated when we were lied to for the purpose of ZIing a member. That is an aggressive act.

Whether or not you believe the SSs to be fake, we believe them to be. Which means that according to our beliefs our actions are justified.

Either way though, this matter is closed. We kept our word. That word being that we would give the 57th peace when they either admitted their wrongs or were bloodied enough. Veneke took that as a threat of Eternal war. Clearly, that was not the case and any that believed so were naive.
[/quote]
I have conclusive screenshot evidence that you're spying on us and want you ZI'd!

[URL=http://img97.imageshack.us/i/conclusiveevidence.jpg/][IMG]http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/5571/conclusiveevidence.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

I await GLoF's DoW.

Edited February 18, 2010 by NoFish

[The Big Bad]

So let me get this straight. You did not stop the war as a PR move or to save face. You did not stop the war because you won or got what you wanted from the 57th. You did not stop the war because once the 57th screen shot was shown to be fake all you had to fall back on was what if the screen shot 57th gave us was fake. I am not sure what is more pathetic the way you started this war or the way you stopped it. Honestly I have never dealt with GLoF or 57th before this all began. However when the time comes, and the time will come, when GLoF has to pay for what it has done here, you can count me in. Of course the smart thing for GLoF to do would be to admit they don't know if 57th faked them out or not and even if they did, it would never be enough to attack your own allies. And then they would pay reps and make nice. Of course considering how GLoF has conducted this entire mess, smart is not something I expect to see from them.

[Mayzie]

Did i misread the other thread Theo or did you get accused of giving this non-existant info to the Lodge, hence your surrender?

[Mayzie]

[quote name='NoFish' date='18 February 2010 - 01:19 AM' timestamp='1266455994' post='2188484']
I have conclusive screenshot evidence that you're spying on us and want you ZI'd!

[URL=http://img97.imageshack.us/i/conclusiveevidence.jpg/][IMG]http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/5571/conclusiveevidence.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

I await GLoF's DoW.
[/quote]

Comments like this are tiring and not helpful at all.

[Aurion]

[quote name='Mayzie' date='17 February 2010 - 08:26 PM' timestamp='1266456403' post='2188503']
Comments like this are tiring and not helpful at all.
[/quote]

Helpful, no. Relevant? Hell yes.

After all, GLoF clearly doesn't think they made a mistake of any description.

So we await their DoW... assuming of course they wish to stay consistent.

Edit: Hell, I'm sure we could sign a quickie MDP, just so that they could repeat exactly their so obviously justified actions~

Edited February 18, 2010 by Aurion

[Charles the Great]

[quote name='evilsquirrel' date='17 February 2010 - 10:08 PM' timestamp='1266455325' post='2188453']
Broke our stuff????.......Looks at 360 OMG THE RRoD!!!!!!....wait....no, thats been there....I dont see anything broken really. I see some extra dust but apart from that everything works the same. You good sir, you fail and I salute you for it
[/quote]

alliance NS 2/12 ...635,388
GLoF declares war
alliance NS 2/16 ...334,811
GLoF feels satisfied and goes home
is that enough corrupt tree rat?

nm dont answer for I am done on the OWF for awhile you people are way too stupid to even comprehend obviously.
and dont say I know you feel the same about me ....... thing is I dont care.



O and Theoroshia you can keep the knife it was yours we took out of our back to begin with.

Edited February 18, 2010 by Charles the Great

[evilsquirrel]

[quote name='Charles the Great' date='17 February 2010 - 05:35 PM' timestamp='1266456949' post='2188521']
alliance NS 2/12 ...635,388
GLoF declares war
alliance NS 2/16 ...334,811
GLoF feels satisfied and goes home
is that enough corrupt tree rat?

nm dont answer for I am done on the OWF for awhile you people are way too stupid to even comprehend obviously.
and dont say I know you feel the same about me ....... thing is I dont care.

[/quote]


Errrrrr you made our Alliance strength drop....Why did Oh yeah YOU FRIGGIN SNEAKED UP ON US! So you made our AS drop when you sneak attacked us....errr.....here's a cookie? You still didnt kill us which still means you fail. Thank you for playing

[Charles the Great]

[quote name='The Big Bad' date='17 February 2010 - 10:21 PM' timestamp='1266456060' post='2188490']
So let me get this straight. You did not stop the war as a PR move or to save face. You did not stop the war because you won or got what you wanted from the 57th. You did not stop the war because once the 57th screen shot was shown to be fake all you had to fall back on was what if the screen shot 57th gave us was fake. I am not sure what is more pathetic the way you started this war or the way you stopped it. Honestly I have never dealt with GLoF or 57th before this all began. However when the time comes, and the time will come, when GLoF has to pay for what it has done here, you can count me in. Of course the smart thing for GLoF to do would be to admit they don't know if 57th faked them out or not and even if they did, it would never be enough to attack your own allies. And then they would pay reps and make nice. Of course considering how GLoF has conducted this entire mess, smart is not something I expect to see from them.
[/quote]

your threats are getting tiresome to say the least ......... didnt you get enough attention yet?

[Charles the Great]

[quote name='evilsquirrel' date='17 February 2010 - 10:38 PM' timestamp='1266457132' post='2188527']
Errrrrr you made our Alliance strength drop....Why did Oh yeah YOU FRIGGIN SNEAKED UP ON US! So you made our AS drop when you sneak attacked us....errr.....here's a cookie? You still didnt kill us which still means you fail. Thank you for playing
[/quote]
you dont get it we had no intention of killing your alliance had we wanted to we would have but that was never our intention...........we needed to teach you a lesson we did.........end of deployment.........thanks for playing.

[Thunder Strike]

I feel like I should make a post here. Hopefully it will settle some things.

I was given Root Admin access to the 57th forums in order to see if I could dig up anything conclusive. This wasn't an easy task as the Admin CP there doesn't track all IP's logged in from. And their search function was down so I had to search for everything manually. So here is a list of what I found.

- The user JackieChan is indeed a Multi as more than one account on the 57th forums is associated with an IP that this account used.
- I found only 2 IP's linked to JackieChan, neither of which matches Iyeman's IP. (I would like people to keep in mind that the 57th's boards only tracks IPs from which the account was registered, and also with every post made the IP used to make that post is listed so this is not conclusive evidence to whether the IP screen shot is fake or not). Based on the geographical distance of the two IPs used by JackieChan it seems most likely that a proxy was used. Also 2 posts of JackieChan remain unaccounted for, and thus the IP's linked with those posts.
- The screen shot of Veneke's post used in GLOF's CB is a fake. There is no evidence of it existing on the 57th boards and no evidence of such a post ever existed in the Admin or Moderator logs. Also as people have stated the spacing doesn't match up with the format used on the 57th's forums
- The screen shot of Iyeman's leaving topic used in GLOF's CB is real, I would like people to notice that how in the CB if you zoom in on it that it has the same pixel distortion as the IP screen shot.
- As per the IP screen shot that is the main basis for the CB all I can say conclusively is that the topics that are being viewed in the screen shot all exist and all existed at the time the screen shot is supposedly taken at.

[Delta1212]

So, just to be clear:

If we think someone has done something wrong and should be taught a lesson, whether the situation in question is popularly believed to warrant war and has evidence that is unquestionable backing it up, we're free to beat on them for a couple of days consequence free, and you are absolutely fine with this?

[Thunder Strike]

[quote name='Charles the Great' date='18 February 2010 - 01:43 PM' timestamp='1266457412' post='2188542']
you dont get it we had no intention of killing your alliance had we wanted to we would have but that was never our intention...........we needed to teach you a lesson we did.........end of deployment.........thanks for playing.

[/quote]

Problem is now that the rest of CN feels it needs to teach GLOF a lesson.

[Roosterton]

[quote name='Thunder Strike' date='17 February 2010 - 05:45 PM' timestamp='1266457527' post='2188546']
I feel like I should make a post here. Hopefully it will settle some things.

I was given Root Admin access to the 57th forums in order to see if I could dig up anything conclusive. This wasn't an easy task as the Admin CP there doesn't track all IP's logged in from. And their search function was down so I had to search for everything manually. So here is a list of what I found.

- The user JackieChan is indeed a Multi as more than one account on the 57th forums is associated with an IP that this account used.
- I found only 2 IP's linked to JackieChan, neither of which matches Iyeman's IP. (I would like people to keep in mind that the 57th's boards only tracks IPs from which the account was registered, and also with every post made the IP used to make that post is listed so this is not conclusive evidence to whether the IP screen shot is fake or not). Based on the geographical distance of the two IPs used by JackieChan it seems most likely that a proxy was used. Also 2 posts of JackieChan remain unaccounted for, and thus the IP's linked with those posts.
- The screen shot of Veneke's post used in GLOF's CB is a fake. There is no evidence of it existing on the 57th boards and no evidence of such a post ever existed in the Admin or Moderator logs. Also as people have stated the spacing doesn't match up with the format used on the 57th's forums
- The screen shot of Iyeman's leaving topic used in GLOF's CB is real, I would like people to notice that how in the CB if you zoom in on it that it has the same pixel distortion as the IP screen shot.
- As per the IP screen shot that is the main basis for the CB all I can say conclusively is that the topics that are being viewed in the screen shot all exist and all existed at the time the screen shot is supposedly taken at.
[/quote]

I doubt we'll be seeing any more GLoF posts now.

Am I annoyed that we got not a cent of reps? Yes, but the lack of treaties GLoF will be getting in the future makes up for that, imo.

[ConeBone69]

From hands on experience, 57th is one of the most incompetent alliances around. The fact that GLoF looks absolutely terrible next to them really says a lot. Truly, I'm stunned.

[Lord Panda]

[quote name='ConeBone69' date='17 February 2010 - 08:56 PM' timestamp='1266458215' post='2188568']
From hands on experience, 57th is one of the most incompetent alliances around. The fact that GLoF looks absolutely terrible next to them really says a lot. Truly, I'm stunned.
[/quote]

Wait, who are you again?

[Charles the Great]

[quote name='Delta1212' date='17 February 2010 - 10:49 PM' timestamp='1266457746' post='2188555']
So, just to be clear:

If we think someone has done something wrong and should be taught a lesson, whether the situation in question is popularly believed to warrant war and has evidence that is unquestionable backing it up, we're free to beat on them for a couple of days consequence free, and you are absolutely fine with this?
[/quote]


yes to the first but obviously this was not consequence free now was it. Due to the trolls attempting to blame everything that happened on GLoF. But, again you all will believe what you want no matter what I say. And no one really stopped anyone from countering us except possibly the fact that you all knew we were in the right and all the talk agianst us was just propaganda.

seriously tho I am no longer gonna post on these boards for a bit as I am just a layman and you guys twist words extremely well. I am a smart guy with math and physics, Literature and speech writing not so much. I am sure it shows. plus I am professionally medicated atm and may go to far.

thank you,
CtG

ps it has been fun verbally sparring with you all tho.

[ConeBone69]

[quote name='Lord Panda' date='17 February 2010 - 09:00 PM' timestamp='1266458431' post='2188575']
Wait, who are you again?
[/quote]
The guy who gave up on brown unity a long, long time ago.

[Lord Panda]

[quote name='ConeBone69' date='17 February 2010 - 09:05 PM' timestamp='1266458725' post='2188584']
The guy who gave up on brown unity a long, long time ago.
[/quote]

Quitters never win.

[Roosterton]

[quote name='Lord Panda' date='17 February 2010 - 06:06 PM' timestamp='1266458793' post='2188585']
Quitters never win.
[/quote]

Oh deary, is this thread also going to degenerate into a Lord Panda vs. Just about everyone else epic?

[The Big Bad]

[quote name='Delta1212' date='17 February 2010 - 08:49 PM' timestamp='1266457746' post='2188555']
So, just to be clear:

If we think someone has done something wrong and should be taught a lesson, whether the situation in question is popularly believed to warrant war and has evidence that is unquestionable backing it up, we're free to beat on them for a couple of days consequence free, and you are absolutely fine with this?
[/quote]

Sometimes they just make it to easy don't they?

[janax]

[quote name='Thunder Strike' date='17 February 2010 - 07:51 PM' timestamp='1266457864' post='2188558']
Problem is now that the rest of CN feels it needs to teach GLOF a lesson.
[/quote]


To be fair, I don't want to teach them a lesson, but that has a lot more to do with sheer apathy about the whole situation.

Carry on.