wxyrty Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Until you can show me that RoK was aware of his actions, then yes. Rish was spying on his own with no support from RoK. Doesn't mean he couldn't have passed information to RoK without them knowing the source of it, but that doesn't implicate RoK in anything. rok got all the info from the spy and you call that not spying? If you eat beef, doesn't that tell you that at least a cow die for that beef? or are you saying beef is vegetable? rok got info from that spy, that spy is part of rok leadership, rok got caught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirMe Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 And what a sorry game it is, that no man can emerge victorious, but both fall into a bottomless pit of horrendous slander. Being guilty, I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Nukem Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 I rishy . I don't condemn his action and I'm sure RoK feels the same. Please don't inscessantly troll him. Ya dig? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heggo Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 I guess they could do that. Try querying someone in #rok and see if they'll do that for you. Can't hurt to ask I'm sure they'd probably be better off posting evidence as to their defense here rather than querying it over to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirMe Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 rok got all the info from the spy and you call that not spying? If you eat beef, doesn't that tell you that at least a cow die for that beef? or are you saying beef is vegetable? rok got info from that spy, that spy is part of rok leadership, rok got caught. You have no evidence that RoK got info from Rish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicninja Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Do you have evidence to prove beyond all doubt that he was doing it all for his own entertainment?Granted, there's no evidence to prove it the other way either as of yet, but I'm just saying. Whether they do or do not it is innocent until proven guilty by the accusers. Just the way it is. It's up to the accusers to provide evidence that RoK knew or was involved with Rish's activities. If they cannot prove a connection then the most anyone can say is he was doing it for his own enjoyment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joracy Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 (edited) rok got all the info from the spy and you call that not spying? If you eat beef, doesn't that tell you that at least a cow die for that beef? or are you saying beef is vegetable? rok got info from that spy, that spy is part of rok leadership, rok got caught. I assume you have a wealth of proof that RoK government was aware of Rish's multi and his trip to ghosting a few alliances and joining NATO? Edited January 1, 2010 by joracy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Brendan Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Do you have evidence to prove beyond all doubt that he was doing it all for his own entertainment?Granted, there's no evidence to prove it the other way either as of yet, but I'm just saying. Innocent until proven guilty, no? Basically the only argument for Ragnarok being guilty is "well they denied it and that's what they'd do if they were involved, so they must have been involved". Which is an absurd rationale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicninja Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 rok got all the info from the spy and you call that not spying? If you eat beef, doesn't that tell you that at least a cow die for that beef? or are you saying beef is vegetable? rok got info from that spy, that spy is part of rok leadership, rok got caught. Prove it please and I will side with you as will most of Bob allies of RoK or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wxyrty Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 You have no evidence that RoK got info from Rish. He is part of rok leadership, he went multi and joined many alliances, if he read anything that he not suppose to read then he got info. We caught him. We have evidence. Rok spied on us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heggo Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Basically the only argument for Ragnarok being guilty is "well they denied it and that's what they'd do if they were involved, so they must have been involved". Which is an absurd rationale. While RoK obviously can't prove a negative, perhaps they could do something to lift some of the suspicion from them. Perhaps they could provide screenshots of their forum permissions so that we could see just how much access Rish had while his multi was running amok, or perhaps they could provide logs or screenshots of RoK government members discussing Rish in one way or another during that same period. They can't prove the negative, but to suppose that there's no evidence they could provide that would raise the suspicion from them is absurd. In fact, I'm rather intrigued that nobody from RoK has come forward with any such evidence yet... Is it so absurd to ask RoK for such information? If only to clear up the doubts of those who Rish had wronged? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicninja Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 He is part of rok leadership, he went multi and joined many alliances, if he read anything that he not suppose to read then he got info. We caught him. We have evidence. Rok spied on us. He hasn't been RoK leadership for a long time bub. Provide evidence that he passed info to RoK or shut up. You are getting annoying and are ruining your sides credibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kzoppistan Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Well, you got something other than witty "hurrr durrrs"? cus i was rather serious with my post No, not really. But with the evidence NATO/IRON/TOP might have uncovered it's reasonable to expect RoK getting rolled in few months. Since that's cool now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goose Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Do you have evidence to prove beyond all doubt that he was doing it all for his own entertainment?Granted, there's no evidence to prove it the other way either as of yet, but I'm just saying. I don't have any evidence of anything. But, I'm not making inflamatory accusations that RoK are hypocrites and were spying on NATO. Granted, I certainly have a bias in the matter as I'm allied to Hoo. But, if you can show me some proof of his knowledge and endorsement of Rish's actions, I'll be having a long talk with Hoo about the future of our relationship. So, all I ask is that the accusations with no proof be halted. Forgive me for not being willing to make that illogical leap without proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicninja Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Is it so absurd to ask RoK for such information? If only to clear up the doubts of those who Rish had wronged? What would be suffice to prove it though? Screen shots of every forum on RoK's boards? a publishing of every log RoK's gov has saved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Believland Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Innocent until proven guilty, no?Basically the only argument for Ragnarok being guilty is "well they denied it and that's what they'd do if they were involved, so they must have been involved". Which is an absurd rationale. I hate to be "that" guy. But isn't that what you just did in that whole NSO/DF incident? I know it's fun to have double standards and hypocritical, but please don't. Rok may have just got a little info. I'm sure they never sanctioned it, but they probably did like whatever info they got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Brendan Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 He is part of rok leadership, he went multi and joined many alliances, if he read anything that he not suppose to read then he got info. We caught him. We have evidence. Rok spied on us. Did you read the OP? Note that the above actions did take place after Rishnokof stepped down from his government position. Oh I forgot. Logic doesn't matter, just repeat repeat repeat and eventually people will believe your drivel. *NOTE that I'm treating the topic as IC seeing as it is very much an IC issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wickedj Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 He is part of rok leadership, he went multi and joined many alliances, if he read anything that he not suppose to read then he got info. We caught him. We have evidence. Rok spied on us. No. a *MEMBER* of Rok potentially spied, but this has yet to be proven. if you spy on me shall i condem your alliance as spies or rather just you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heggo Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 What would be suffice to prove it though?Screen shots of every forum on RoK's boards? a publishing of every log RoK's gov has saved? Don't be disingenuous, you know just as well as I that it shouldn't be especially hard to provide evidence as to how RoK's government viewed Rish. True, they couldn't prove the negative of Rish not being a spy, but they could lift suspicion from themselves by showing that they had an attitude toward him that would suggest that they no longer viewed him as being an important contact of theirs, or perhaps they could show that he didn't have any special forum access as an adviser or whatever he was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirMe Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 He is part of rok leadership, he went multi and joined many alliances, if he read anything that he not suppose to read then he got info. We caught him. We have evidence. Rok spied on us. No you don't. Rish was not a RoK gov member when the multi was in other alliances. That has already been proven. Believe it or not, members have minds of their own. Sometimes people do things on their own without their leadership knowing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Havok Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 You have no evidence that RoK got info from Rish. You have no info they didnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Brendan Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 I hate to be "that" guy. But isn't that what you just did in that whole NSO/DF incident? I know it's fun to have double standards and hypocritical, but please don't.Rok may have just got a little info. I'm sure they never sanctioned it, but they probably did like whatever info they got. So I'm a member of Dark Fist now? I didn't follow that situation all that closely, from what I recall there was circumstantial evidence that a NSO member had requested DF's boards to be spammed with gore, and the NSO response was basically "there's no hard evidence, pay us reps". Whereas the Ragnarok response here has been "there's no hard evidence, we had nothing to do with it, but we're sorry that it happened and the individual responsible is no longer welcome with us". So even if I had supported Dark Fist I wouldn't consider it a double standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill n ted Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Except that the multi was in RoK the entire time Rish was gov of RoK. So even if Rish was in control of Magee the entire time, no spying was being commited at the time Rish was gov. This is fact based on evidence provided by TOP so there is no use arguing he was gov of RoK at the time wrongdoing was going down. Put the spade down. Seriously? You support openly an alliance that attacked someone 6 months after the event when they were on their knees for daring to try some guerrilla action that after they got peace had no further contact with their accomplices (ZH) and yet you defend ROK whos former Triumvir and was a government adviser up until the point he got deleted less than 12 hours ago for being a multi that has tried to obtain IRON membership, succeeded in getting NATO membership, and tied to cause hassle between NSO and TOP? You got the moral high ground on this one no doubt... Itll be interesting to see if ODN has any proof (not that I care about them) of him attempting to gain ODN membership going off the data UE provided but of course; he was just attempting to get into IRON/NATO for sightseeing activities and nothing more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goose Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 rok got all the info from the spy and you call that not spying? If you eat beef, doesn't that tell you that at least a cow die for that beef? or are you saying beef is vegetable? rok got info from that spy, that spy is part of rok leadership, rok got caught. As we all know, everyone accepts information. Not everyone goes out and seeks out that information, doing underhanded things to get it. Rish spied, or at least was in a position to do so. I don't dispute that. However, there are many ways for him to pass that info on to RoK without them thinking he was spying. For the umpteenth time, Rish was not RoK government when his multi was in a position to spy. Rok did not get caught spying. A former government member of RoK got caught spying, maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Archer Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 (edited) You have no info they didnt How is he or anyone else supposed to prove a negative? Editted to add in anyone else Edited January 1, 2010 by Jonathan Archer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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