An Address from the Grandmaster

[KinKiac]

WAR CRIMES: namely, violations of the laws or customs of war. Such violations shall include, but not be limited to, murder, ill-treatment or deportation to slave labor or for any other purpose of civilian population of or in occupied territory, murder or ill-treatment of prisoners of war or persons on the seas, killing of hostages, plunder of public or private property, wanton destruction of cities, towns or villages, or devastation not justified by military necessity;

In an alliance there is no civilian population, every member is a member of the armed forces and thus there are no real war crimes possible on this planet.

(OOC: the only possible war crimes here would be OOC in nature such as DDoS attacks)

i could think of quite a few other things you could do which might be classified as war crimes but most of them happen in the OOC area around the game instead of inside the game per se. If one wants to be pedantic on the other hand, a direct attack on a community might be a suitable analogy for "wanton destruction of cities, towns or villages not justified by military necessity" but frankly that analogy is problematic (as is the phrase "war crimes" in general in regards to CN)

OOC: I did make special exception for OOC acts at teh bottom of my post and am in full agreement with you.

I am also in full agreement that "War Crimes" is a problematic phrase considering the nature of Planet Bob I would disagree with your analogy regarding the "Wanton destruction of cities, towns or villages not justified by military necessity" for the fact that it was war time and those "villages" could easily be seen as "military bases" and the military necessity would be the need to disarm the Athens military to defend TPF's allies.

The analogy is problematic which is why I hate using terms from beyond this world but when others bring them in to the debate it is hard to counter without also using them.

Yeah i was only half serious with the war crimes label. But I didnt think that war crimes encompassed a specific set of acts, but rather anything considered "out of line" or "unacceptable" during war time. Of course each side would see things differently. As such any time the term war crimes is used, whether here on PB or in other worlds(apparently it has never before been used here on PB), there tends to be a certain amount of controversy surrounding it and whether or not the actions were war crimes and thus punishable[OOC] Bush Cheney?[/OOC] It seems that the whole argument over the CB seems to be that TPF, and some of her allies, consider TPF's attempted spying or whatever you want to call it to be in line with acceptable war time tactics. Others dont see it that way, as TPF was not actually at war with Athens directly, not to mention spying is frowned upon regardless. This is by many considered to have not been an acceptable tactic. That is what reminded me of the term war crimes, as war crimes are punished after the war in question is already resolved, sometimes years later, for things done during war which are considered "unacceptable" during the time of war. I cant say I agree with going to war over such acts here on PB but the term seemed to fit, at least it did when I wrote it. Notice the "lol" in my post though, I was laughing at how much our world sometimes mirrors itself to that of another.

EDIT: grammar

Edited December 30, 2009 by KinKiac

[Doitzel]

Doitzel, didn't you propose a plan to form a Hippy tree hugging block while you were in IRON's Gov? Didn't it almost split the alliance? As I recall IRON almost went in the war against the NPO (GASP) when we thought they had hit Orange Shadow Force. Turned out, OSF had hit them and we stayed out. But that was under your leadership. You left when you saw that IRON was shifting towards entering the world stage to fight. You should have stuck around for my rise to power. We have been in every major war since.

But, good roast. I got a chuckle.

Part of that recollection is correct, part is not.

I was not on the Council during the Great War, I was just an overactive grunt. We did consider supporting OSF but decided against it. Shan and I did try to form a hippie-tree-hugging bloc of sorts and it failed pretty miserably. That was part of my ongoing attempts to get IRON involved on the world stage that never resulted in anything (I was desperate enough to even briefly advocate a post-GW MDP with GATO), which culminated in my leaving in late October 06. I couldn't even convince people to sign the equivalent of a modern PIAT/ODP. IRON did not participate in any major international conflict for another year, and that and all subsequent conflicts it participated in were overwhelming curbstomps until the Karma War (which I touched on).

I did engineer the treaty that paved the way to One Vision, however. Big mistakey.

Give yourself a pat on the back and stroll right along then.

My flesh is scarred from all my self-back-patting, to be honest.

Edited December 30, 2009 by Elyat

[Pingu]

I have some ointment for your back, Grandmaster, derived from the livers of leopard seals. It is noisome but efficacious.

Also, this discussion has become tedious. Please provide more entertainment.

[Aurion]

Mild off-topic, sorry to the mods in advance:

I never really get the people who say Doitzel isn't relevant. Anyone who can generate this much rage and crying and lulz as a result of one single post can't possibly be irrelevant.

[TehChron]

I have some ointment for your back, Grandmaster, derived from the livers of leopard seals. It is noisome but efficacious.

You monster.

I use the far more humane method of gathering together several dozen mudkips, and compressing them into a fine liquid form, which is only slightly less effective, but leaves far less of a scar on one's conscience.

[MiasmaCircle]

Very simply, all I have to add is that Doitzel still remains as a beacon of clarity in a !@#$-house of a world.

Now, please continue.

[Pingu]

You monster.

I use the far more humane method of gathering together several dozen mudkips, and compressing them into a fine liquid form, which is only slightly less effective, but leaves far less of a scar on one's conscience.

Sir, you either forget or choose to ignore the important detail here, which is that besides having excellently oily livers, leopard seals are evil penguin-eating !@#$%^&* who deserve everything they get.

I may or may not be a monster, however. People have said worse.

Also hello, Chron, how are you? Do you have an opinion on the topic of this discussion, which is the primacy of preserving one's infrastructure and technology?

[TehChron]

Also hello, Chron, how are you? Do you have an opinion on the topic of this discussion, which is the primacy of preserving one's infrastructure and technology?

$%&@ infra.

Tech I can live with, on the other hand.

Sir, you either forget or choose to ignore the important detail here, which is that besides having excellently oily livers, leopard seals are evil penguin-eating !@#$%^&* who deserve everything they get.

I may or may not be a monster, however. People have said worse.

They are far cuter than penguins. Also I respect an animal that is unafraid of killing something cute in order to feed. Very Sith.

[Pingu]

$%&@ infra.

Tech I can live with, on the other hand.

They are far cuter than penguins. Also I respect an animal that is unafraid of killing something cute in order to feed. Very Sith.

How do you feel about an animal that is unafraid of killing something cute in order to extract oil to salve the much-patted back of a Jedi Grandmaster?

Tech is reasonably useful. Our seal-hunting ships use quite high technology, for example.

[TehChron]

How do you feel about an animal that is unafraid of killing something cute in order to extract oil to salve the much-patted back of a Jedi Grandmaster?

Tech is reasonably useful. Our seal-hunting ships use quite high technology, for example.

See, that's where I draw the line. Jedi Grandmasters are always such dicks, you do the world a disservice every time you ease their self-inflicted suffering.

Edit: Moreover, our Order uses incredibly high-er technology to fuel our Mudkip compressors. Those little freaks don't turn themselves into oil, you know. Not yet, anyway.

Edited December 31, 2009 by Chron

[Marty McFly]

Man, this is hilarious.

I taunt IRON and Citadel because I don't like them. The immediate responce is for IRON and Citadel to turn around and gnash their teeth and C&G and SF for trying to provoke them into war. What's even funnier is that they're using the "Karma" label applied to all of us. It's fascinating: 1) I'm not even involved in this war, nor is the only alliance I'm allied to; 2) the exact same people that kept me out of Karma are the ones now using the moniker to encompass my words; 3) they took the bait hook, line, and sinker.

I wonder why IRON has its entire mid-tier in peace mode and not the upper and lower. Me thinks they have been assigned to attack a certain aqua alliance whose MDoAP partner has the strongest mid-tier in the game.

[Jtkode]

PLEASE DECLARE WAR IRON SO WE CAN GET AT TOP. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE.

I guess if taunting them seemed to work last time, why not try it again?

^^^^

And o/ to the post I gues w/e just wanted to put that awesome smiley there for Essenia's post!

Edited December 31, 2009 by Jtkode

[flak attack]

I wonder why IRON has its entire mid-tier in peace mode and not the upper and lower. Me thinks they have been assigned to attack a certain aqua alliance whose MDoAP partner has the strongest mid-tier in the game.

I wonder which aqua they will hit.

[Marty McFly]

I wonder which aqua they will hit.

I hope its not the greek one.

[Pocho]

I hope its not the greek one.

Oh gosh, i hope not :\

[Marty McFly]

Oh gosh, i hope not :\

Well go tell them that, I'm hoping for the viking one.

[flak attack]

Well go tell them that, I'm hoping for the viking one.

You do have another friend on aqua that's going to get drug into this one

No love for us?

[Marty McFly]

You do have another friend on aqua that's going to get drug into this one

No love for us?

Yeah, but you're not in the direct line of fire. It would take an extra day to defend you, I want to go in asap

I still MK, I hope you get some nice targets to fire at

[deth2munkies]

Yeah, but you're not in the direct line of fire. It would take an extra day to defend you, I want to go in asap

I still MK, I hope you get some nice targets to fire at

You're assuming this is going to escalate.

[Tequila Mockingbird]

IRON sounds like the place for me!

[Kewlleo]

You're assuming this is going to escalate.

Oh it is.

I just hope it don't turn out to be a cat fight.

With a week worth of posturing for two days worth of scrapping.

[empirica]

Doitzel, didn't you propose a plan to form a Hippy tree hugging block while you were in IRON's Gov? Didn't it almost split the alliance? As I recall IRON almost went in the war against the NPO (GASP) when we thought they had hit Orange Shadow Force. Turned out, OSF had hit them and we stayed out. But that was under your leadership. You left when you saw that IRON was shifting towards entering the world stage to fight. You should have stuck around for my rise to power. We have been in every major war since.

But, good roast. I got a chuckle.

NPO v OSF didn't happen during Doitzel's tenure in government. IIRC, he left Council, I joined it after, and I know I was there for that situation. I don't recall the hippy tree hugging thing though. (Not saying it didn't happen, just that I don't remember it).

I left IRON days before GWIII. IRON was neutral in GWIII. IRON was involved in the FAN-WUT war in June of 2007. I believe Doitzel left IRON in October or November of 2006. Timeline doesn't quite add up there.

[Joe Stupid]

You do have another friend on aqua that's going to get drug into this one

No love for us?

Hey man i'm being blue-balled over here!!