Dilber Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 heh, well I guess that's that then. NOt ending a spy ring that you had started after surrendering was a direct violation of your surrender terms. So I guess according to JBone this war is justified as well as any war declared by any alliances TPF surrendered to. It's actually entirely possible that JBone made a mistake, as he was quoting a post that listed a specific date. The logs that were given by Athens don't match this date. The only time stamp is from july, and the only thing that shows a time period has it ending before the Karma War was over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jgoods45 Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 That part made me literally laugh my $@! off. Good luck TPF, seems we are back to the games of he-said-she-said. Ezequiel. But they came to us asking for a MDP. Twice. We had to refuse it because we didn't know them well enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dilber Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 I have as much proof it continued as you have that it stopped. That said, there is proof it started.Same question to you as I posted to Haf: Assuming NPO was out of terms, and I asked 5 of my members to DoW 5 of your members 2 months from now. 1 month from now they decide not to DoW your members, and they tell you the plan. Are you and I cool? Actually, I'd do what the NPO usually did in cases like this, and try to resolve it diplomatically(confront you with it). If that failed, we would have used force. However, this situation would be changed if your plan occured while we were at war with each other. We've been spied on a lot during wars. We don't hold it against them afterwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 "There might be more of them!"Let the witch hunts begin. No, TPF is being punished for trying to harm Athens, an alliance they weren't at war with, with a sleeper cell alliance. Nice attempt at spinning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 We've been spied on a lot during wars. We don't hold it against them afterwards. This made me laugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilkenny Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 Shows it being over on ZH's side... not on TPFs. Again, how does that absolve TPF? I'm getting a complex from repeating myself here... Are you serious?? So from those logs, ZH was not going to provide info, but because a log wasn't shown with mhawk telling them to stop, it still went on?? Does that mean, since mhawk never said stop. that they provided information?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin McDonald Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 However, this situation would be changed if your plan occured while we were at war with each other. We've been spied on a lot during wars. What if my plan continued after the war? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin McDonald Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 Are you serious?? So from those logs, ZH was not going to provide info, but because a log wasn't shown with mhawk telling them to stop, it still went on?? Does that mean, since mhawk never said stop. that they provided information?? If I ask 5 nations to DoW TPF in 2 months, and 1 month from now those nations decide not to DoW you and tell you the whole plan, are you and I cool? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBone Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 (edited) heh, well I guess that's that then. NOt ending a spy ring that you had started after surrendering was a direct violation of your surrender terms. So I guess according to JBone this war is justified as well as any war declared by any alliances TPF surrendered to. Whoa there fella......late August was referenced in the Athens DoW.....the 24th I think. If you read the full logs from that little link at the bottom you will find this: 01[22:53] <DrunkMonkey[ZH]> Yohan & I have to talk to hawk as soon as TPF accepts peace [22:53] <Beernuts|Away> aboot? 01[22:54] <DrunkMonkey[ZH]> the op 01[22:54] <DrunkMonkey[ZH]> we're pulling out Which clearly shows that ZH had opted out of the infamous plan before TPF received terms, August 4th, thereby ending it. Zero Hour was nescessary for this plan to continue, once they bailed....it died, some time later we came to terms with the Karma coalition. EDIT to add a date. Edited December 28, 2009 by JBone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branimir Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 Nice attempt at spinning Actually, you be doing the spinning pretty hard all day long, spaming the boards overtime as far as I can see, double posts and everything. I suppose that you feel the necessity to do that since the "CB" you support is incredibly shaky,..basically just hilarious. I lold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 Whoa there fella......late August was referenced in the Athens DoW.....the 24th I think.If you read the full logs from that little link at the bottom you will find this: 01[22:53] <DrunkMonkey[ZH]> Yohan & I have to talk to hawk as soon as TPF accepts peace [22:53] <Beernuts|Away> aboot? 01[22:54] <DrunkMonkey[ZH]> the op 01[22:54] <DrunkMonkey[ZH]> we're pulling out Which clearly shows that ZH had opted out of the infamous plan before TPF received terms, thereby ending it. Zero Hour was nescessary for this plan to continue, once they bailed....it died, some time later we came to terms with the Karma coalition. You know, you still haven't quite explained your intent for trying to plant a sleeper cell in order to harm an alliance you weren't at war with. Because they decided to pull out does not absolve you of your crime against someone you weren't fighting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDRocks Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 (edited) We've been spied on a lot during wars. We don't hold it against them afterwards. There is a difference between spying during a war to gain intelligence on the enemy and attempting to destroy an alliance's community by using spies to infiltrate gov. One occurs during a war, the other is a long term goal. Edit: Attempting to destroy an alliance's community is despicable and cannot be condoned. Edited December 28, 2009 by BDRocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilhelm the Demented Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 Are you serious?? So from those logs, ZH was not going to provide info, but because a log wasn't shown with mhawk telling them to stop, it still went on?? Does that mean, since mhawk never said stop. that they provided information?? It means that TPF didn't want them to stop, that TPF wanted them to do what they were created to do. It shows that TPF took the initiative to do this covert operation, and had no intention of stopping it, or at the very least, tying off the loose ends. Even if TPF had told them to stop, TPF started it, TPF took the first step, TPF began an operation to spy on and corrupt Athens, whether it failed or not. How hard is that to understand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 Actually, you be doing the spinning pretty hard all day long, spaming the boards overtime as far as I can see, double posts and everything. I suppose that you feel the necessity to do that since the "CB" you support is incredibly shaky,..basically just hilarious. I lold I'm counter-spinning. What can I say it's a gift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branimir Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 What can I say it's a gift. Not that big of a gift. Anybody can push the reply button like a crazy monkey with spin drivel if one monkey which is crazy has enough time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin McDonald Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 Not that big of a gift. Anybody can push the reply button like a crazy monkey with spin drivel if one monkey which is crazy has enough time. Case in point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 Not that big of a gift. Anybody can push the reply button like a crazy monkey with spin drivel if one monkey which is crazy has enough time. Oh wow you've tried to equate me to a monkey and produce an ad hominem attack, aren't you clever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branimir Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 (edited) Case in point. I hope you didn't hurt yourself coming up with that gem Yes, my three posts in the subject really shows how hell bend I am at spinning this train wreck of a "CB" like some are. Do continue though. Oh wow you've tried to equate me to a monkey and produce an ad hominem attack, aren't you clever Calling them as I am seeing them. Its my thing. Edited December 28, 2009 by Branimir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dochartaigh Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 We surrendered August 4th.ZH pulled the plug on the opperation before we surrendered. 01[22:53] <DrunkMonkey[ZH]> Yohan & I have to talk to hawk as soon as TPF accepts peace [22:53] <Beernuts|Away> aboot? 01[22:54] <DrunkMonkey[ZH]> the op 01[22:54] <DrunkMonkey[ZH]> we're pulling out As of this notification, which was obviously before we accepted peace, the plan to have ZH get close with Athens ,to cause harm to a coalition at war with TPF ended. Regardless of who ended it....it was non exsistant at this point in time, which was before we signed terms with Karma. you should realize that Mhawk claimed that TPF had not talked to ZH since July 18 don't ya? the fact that they ended the op in Aug, even prior to Aug 4th, means that mhawk is lying and you are proving that he lied don't ya? that is if you are telling the truth. so regardless of anything, it seems that TPF is lying somewhere along this chain. either way, you are making TPF look worse since either you are lying or mhawk is lying. @everyone still saying that TPF and Athens were at war, if that is the case, then how come there was never peace talks between Athens and TPF? seriously, if they were at war Athens should have been involved in the peace talks with TPF but i am pretty damn certain they weren't. which means that if TPF was at war with Athens then technically there was never peace between the two, which means that Athens does not even need a CB to reinstate hostilities, since those hostilities never ended. also Jbone- Look we have an admitance of guilt already.TPF have confirmed that they did not break off the operation, ZH did that. We also have logs confirming that ZH broke this off in late august. <edit>should probably add here that TPF got peace in the begining of august</edit> That's almost a month where TPF let the operation run freely and even after that they didn't take any steps to stop the operation, ZH did that. imho spying on a alliance for a month after the war ends is a perfectly valid cb it seems that you forget that ZH admitted to ending it in late august not early august like ya'll claim. so unless you have proof of talks where ZH ended it in early august, with the amount of lying done by either you or mhawk, it seems that ZH is more credible. Not sure what you are digging for here but it feels like a TARP.Fact is we were at war...with all of Karma and a few who clearly said they were not Karma. So yes, we conspired to harm those we were at war with and said conspiracy ended before we reached peace terms. honourable <<< have some Bourbon and buy an American dictionary. if this were true, then you are still at war with Gremlins, Athens, RoK, LOST, Vanguard, and many many other alliances that never conducted peace talks with you. if that is the case, then i hope to see more DoWs on TPF as they just gave many alliances a valid reason to reinstate hostilities against TPF (since ya know, TPF was at war with all of Karma but only got peace from a handful). you guys are just digging yourselves deeper and deeper with this whole !@#$%^&* argument of yours. http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...t&p=2058085 not to mention, now you are caught in a lie as is mhawk. since mhawk stated it was mid july that contact ceased. you stated early august in one statement, but in this statement it was late august. seriously, ya'll need to keep consistent as you are catching yourselves in the lies you are weaving. i somehow think you are using the logs where ZH states that they need to talk to mhawk once (not before but once) TPF signs peace as before TPF takes peace. nor does those logs actually show that ZH talked to mhawk or TPF prior to peace but only stated they needed too. thus, there is no actual proof that the operation ended prior to the peace agreement being signed. in fact, the logs you posted are showing that ZH wanted to talk to mhawk after the agreement was signed not prior. so again, get your story straight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin McDonald Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 I hope you didn't hurt yourself coming up with that gem Nah, I'm good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 It'll be ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zizka Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 There is a difference between spying during a war to gain intelligence on the enemy and attempting to destroy an alliance's community by using spies to infiltrate gov. One occurs during a war, the other is a long term goal.Edit: Attempting to destroy an alliance's community is despicable and cannot be condoned. Oh please. If I'm at war with you I could give a rats $@! about your community - I'm taking you down however I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 Oh please. If I'm at war with you I could give a rats $@! about your community - I'm taking you down however I can. Cool opinion bro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadie Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 It means that TPF didn't want them to stop, that TPF wanted them to do what they were created to do. It shows that TPF took the initiative to do this covert operation, and had no intention of stopping it, or at the very least, tying off the loose ends. Even if TPF had told them to stop, TPF started it, TPF took the first step, TPF began an operation to spy on and corrupt Athens, whether it failed or not. How hard is that to understand? Why would TPF tell someone to stop that has already stopped? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 Why would TPF tell someone to stop that has already stopped? Why should they go unpunished for hatching and starting a plan against an alliance they weren't at war with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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