Tygaland Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 Is it? NSO's threats put many alliances on alert. Money was spent on militarization, some nations were put into peace mode. And then it turns out it was a fluke, a rather costly one at that. It's like a false bomb threat, and we know what happens to people reporting those. It's my opinion that it should not be without consequences. Throwing ultimatums around is not something to be taken lightly. Accusations, on the other hand, are to be thrown like confetti! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgrum Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 Is it? NSO's threats put many alliances on alert. Money was spent on militarization, some nations were put into peace mode. And then it turns out it was a fluke, a rather costly one at that. It's like a false bomb threat, and we know what happens to people reporting those. It's my opinion that it should not be without consequences. Throwing ultimatums around is not something to be taken lightly. I have observed this discussion and its back and forths, its been very entertaining. As an observer and not having much at stake in this matter its pretty clear the Sith wouldnt be here and this situation wouldnt have risen to this degree if it was handled better by DarkFist initially. Tyga has it right, as much as it pains me to say this (being a card carrying member of the peanut gallery i like the drama) you guys should have gone to them in private and discussed the forum attacks. If you didnt get satisfaction at that point then you come here and saber rattle. The Sith do what they do, there is plenty of reference to discern how they will react, you barked they barked back. You are correct though you shouldnt take ultimatums lightly, specifcially when your alliance is the genesis for that end. Good luck with this tact though, should make the next couple of pages interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicninja Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 Your alliance wouldn't expect an attack at the update if you were given an ultimatum like that? Even NSO themselves militarized. I think you should work on your strategical skills before the next war. We'd rather avoid putting ourselves in a position to have an ultimatum handed to us in the first place. Think about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viluin Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 (edited) Accusations, on the other hand, are to be thrown like confetti! That's a fallacious comparison, a threat is not comparable to an accusation. An accusation is the act of imputing blame or guilt, whereas a threat means you're using a form of violence or blackmail to make people do what you want. The consequences they have are completely different. We'd rather avoid putting ourselves in a position to have an ultimatum handed to us in the first place. Think about it. And I bet you would've paid the reps if you had gotten an ultimatum. Edited December 23, 2009 by Viluin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 That's a fallacious comparison, a threat is not comparable to an accusation. An accusation is the act of imputing blame or guilt, whereas a threat means you're using a form of violence or blackmail to make people do what you want. The consequences they have are completely different. An accusation can bring about a threat though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viluin Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 An accusation can bring about a threat though. Only if you choose to counter the opinion of another person with force. Isn't that usually a sign of weakness? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffyewunga Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 Only if you choose to counter the opinion of another person with force. Isn't that usually a sign of weakness? Only if the other side has actaully proof to back up their claims and go about it the right way. U have not in either case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tromp Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 Accusations, on the other hand, are to be thrown like confetti! To be fairly honest, what's wrong with that? It's up to you if you believe them or not, and to take it further, to take them seriously or not. Everyone could've formed it's own opinion, based on what both parties had to say about the matter on hand. The fact remains that this all started with an (as now seems) empty threat from Corinan to CSN. He could've avoided this mess, but chose not to. He pressed on and threatened DF with war. How silly can you be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Havok Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 (edited) Only if you choose to counter the opinion of another person with force. Isn't that usually a sign of weakness? No apologizing is Edited December 23, 2009 by Mr Havok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infidel Israeli Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 37 pages...nah I'm not reading that. anything actually change or has it just been one giant "No u" battle as it was the first five pages? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viluin Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 (edited) Only if the other side has actaully proof to back up their claims and go about it the right way.U have not in either case An accusation does not require proof, and without proof it's nothing but an opinion. SCM stated in his OP that, given the circumstances, he thinks NSO did it. Responding to an accusation with threats of force is weak. Claiming an accusation is worthy of such threats shows what kind of person you are. Edited December 23, 2009 by Viluin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffyewunga Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 And SCm based soly on his opinion with no proof called for NSO disctruction. So i miss where Dark Fist hasn't issued a threat by Proxy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 (edited) To be fairly honest, what's wrong with that?It's up to you if you believe them or not, and to take it further, to take them seriously or not. Nothing, but don't whine when people call you on your accusations. [ooc]Especially when the accusations are of OOC impropriety which may be illegal in some jurisdictions.[/ooc] Everyone could've formed it's own opinion, based on what both parties had to say about the matter on hand.The fact remains that this all started with an (as now seems) empty threat from Corinan to CSN. He could've avoided this mess, but chose not to. He pressed on and threatened DF with war. How silly can you be? [ooc]I think the difference is the accusation in this case is an OOC one. Make IC accusations all you like but I think accusing someone of something outside the realm of the game is not a good idea unless you have the evidence to support your accusation. Even better if it is raised privately with the alliance accused. Such accusations have no place in an IC environment such as this forum. I get that you hate NSO and will do or say anything to smear them but at least try and keep it within the realms of the game.[/ooc] Edited December 23, 2009 by Tygaland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Flinders Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 So i miss where Dark Fist hasn't issued a threat by Proxy That's reaching quite a bit. If you're considering that a threat then you should probably act on the countless others who have said along the same thing in IRC since this all started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 (edited) An accusation does not require proof, and without proof it's nothing but an opinion. SCM stated in his OP that, given the circumstances, he thinks NSO did it. Responding to an accusation with threats of force is weak. Claiming an accusation is worthy of such threats shows what kind of person you are. Your accusations (SCM has confirmed it was an alliance statement) involved accusing members of an alliance of OOC actions that may even be illegal in some jurisdictions which to me is more than a mere in-game opinion. It goes beyond an opinion and into the realm of libel/slander. I can understand fully why those you accused would seek proof of the claims you have made or an apology if that proof cannot be provided. If you want to run around making accusations and expressing opinions in an IC sense then be my guest. This accusation was not IC, it was an OOC accusation. Edited December 23, 2009 by Tygaland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viluin Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 (edited) Your accusations (SCM has confirmed it was an alliance statement) involved accusing members of an alliance of OOC actions that may even be illegal in some jurisdictions which to me is more than a mere in-game opinion. It goes beyond an opinion and into the realm of libel/slander. I can understand fully why those you accused would seek proof of the claims you have made or an apology if that proof cannot be provided.If you want to run around making accusations and expressing opinions in an IC sense then be my guest. This accusation was not IC, it was an OOC accusation. Slander is a claim that is implied to be factual, meant to damage the reputation of someone or something. No such claim was made, it was immediately made clear this was our opinion, and not a fact. Apologizing for an opinion is rather silly, unless your opinion has been disproved. Edited December 23, 2009 by Viluin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacapo Saladin Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 /me kicks the ground I hate it when I have to agree with Tyga about something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tromp Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 Nothing, but don't whine when people call you on your accusations. [ooc]Especially when the accusations are of OOC impropriety which may be illegal in some jurisdictions.[/ooc] I don't believe they have been whining over 'being called on their accusations'. On the contrary. [ooc]That it is partly ooc is clear to all of us, and I hope everyone agrees that whoever it did, it was a bad thing to do.[/ooc] [ooc]I think the difference is the accusation in this case is an OOC one. Make IC accusations all you like but I think accusing someone of something outside the realm of the game is not a good idea unless you have the evidence to support your accusation. Even better if it is raised privately with the alliance accused. Such accusations have no place in an IC environment such as this forum. I get that you hate NSO and will do or say anything to smear them but at least try and keep it within the realms of the game.[/ooc] [ooc]Let's be clear here: never did I say I agreed with SCM on the ooc part. But as I said above, the topic is not just about this ooc accusation. I get why you nitpick on it, since I don't like to mix OOC with IC as well. However in this particular case, it seems all too coincidental not to mention it and I don't blame SCM for making it public. Especially considering he said right in the OP that he couldn't prove it was an NSO member, just that he thought that given the circumstances it was someone from NSO.[/ooc] Besides this all, never have I said that I 'hate' the NSO, but their attempts to scare other people have failed horribly and they make themselves look like idiots every time they do it. The anti-climax (or by now, rather expected result) was when they issued an ultimatum they didn't even dare to fulfil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eden Taylor Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 In this thread Tyga is given the chance to post a lot, feel important, and give everyone a headache (not arguing with the logic, just the amount of it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejayrazz Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 If you wish to interpret our actions as such, then it is well within your rights. Note however that in our announcement, we were clearly trying to have some fun, and were not threatening anyone. I believe it is better to conduct politics with laugher than threats and demands. If you are not threatening anyone, get this over with. Apologize, state these were not your true intentions, and move on. As for the accusations of the NSO member, it is certainly logical for you to believe it was an NSO member given the circumstances, anyone saying otherwise is merely biased or lacking insight. Your method, however, was what is wrong. If you wish to make a joke topic, do not have any realism within it, such as the OOC nonsense, because now it looks serious and causes problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireandthepassion Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 (edited) Of course we can't *prove* it was NSO, however the timing of our debating in the other discussion, the spamwar, and the general antics of youwish, I think, that more or less proves it.http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/4994/nsotimingclean.png Match up the times on my comp, with the irc discussion, timestamps quoted here, etc - it all happened around around the same 1-1.5 hours. Considering that NSO has just threatened CSN for an OOC action, pertetrated by a single individual, we - the Dark Fist, are none too pleased with youwish or whoever else it was from the New Sith Order, who requested on a popular imageboard, and bumped the topic with pornography, asking that porn and gore be spammed on our forums. Furthermore, I think the New Sith Order should be destroyed. Signed, Daikos, Diarch Starcraftmazter, Diarch You have absolutely nothing that proves it was NSO or a member of NSO that posted said messages. You only have your own assumptions and conclusions. Also if you want NSO destroyed do something about it. Don't just sit there. If you're going to sit there please just shut up and don't make empty threats because then this is just pointless. Edited December 23, 2009 by Fireandthepassion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir Stukov II Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 tl;dr for those who don't want to read 38 pages: NSO asks /b/ to spam DF's forum with gore and porn. When DF finds out about this they make a thread on the OWF explaining the situation. NSO enters the thread and tells DF to "do something about it" while at the same time threatening smaller alliances who criticize them. NSO then proceeds to issue DF an ultimatum for tattling on them and demand reps and an apology. When NSO finds out the numbers aren't on their side they back down and pretend they were never planning to do anything in the first place. And just when you thought things couldn't get worse for NSO, a thread was created showing their horrible military organization and laughable warchests. So NSO affirmed a few things many have been suspecting for a while. They are an alliance that loves to go around acting tough to make up for their inadequate actual strength. They would have a hard time beating any alliance half their size. And the only people they threaten are neutrals and alliances they greatly outnumber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tromp Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 Also if you want NSO destroyed do something about it. Don't just sit there. If you're going to sit there please just shut up and don't make empty threats because then this is just pointless. You edited out a very important part, namely that what this all started with... An (as it now seems) empty accusation from Corinan of NSO: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...t&p=2042768 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 You have absolutely nothing that proves it was NSO or a member of NSO that posted said messages. You only have your own assumptions and conclusions. Also if you want NSO destroyed do something about it. Don't just sit there. If you're going to sit there please just shut up and don't make empty threats because then this is just pointless. Please relay this message to NSO aswell please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin McDonald Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 tl;dr for those who don't want to read 38 pages:NSO asks /b/ to spam DF's forum with gore and porn. This is where your tl;dr lost all credibility. Please provide proof of this statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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