Declaration of Solidarity

[lebubu]

I know you long enough and this why i wonder what caused this sudden change of mind. And i want second Velkens question, cause i dont seem to remember MK diplomats throwing out these kind of sentences at our forums when making tech deals.

This is because everyone is entitled to an opinion and MKers are free to voice them. Business is business, though, and if one of our members has some unpopular opinions vis-à-vis leftist alliances, that doesn't mean that MK dislikes you or has any feelings on whatever it is that is going on here.

FYI: MK is one of our biggest customers, and considering I sent you ungrateful cluster$%&@s 12 new sellers just this week I suggest you stfu

You can be sure that we are, in fact, grateful cluster$%&@s.

edit: uhh new page

Edited November 22, 2009 by lebubu

[Dilber]

I officially love when The Reccesion posts.

*edit was because first time I assumed recession was spelled correctly*

Edited November 22, 2009 by Dilber

[Krashnaia]

Well, the funny thing about this thread is looking at the NPO's humiliating and laughing at the pity fools who dare to challenge them, when the fact is they are quite scared by that move against their predominance in the Sphere.

And proof of their concern is given by the fact that for the first time in months, the NPO has modified their Senate Election campaign message, to include some crap against the Solidarity guys and to subtle drop some war threats. The message has already been posted in this thread, but I'll cite again for convenience:

Red Team Comrade,

I'd like you to vote Millionario of Malone, Kingdom of Dark, or Biff Webster of Wagglefka for senate!

For over 4 months, the alliances of the Red Dawn Treaty have protected your Red Team trades and ensured that Red remains stable by offering opportunities to seek trades and organize trade rings on the Red Dawn forum: http://cn-reddawn.com/. Alliances of Red Dawn have been critical in keeping up the tradition of protecting Red Nations from raiders and thieves.

At present, a band of alliances calling themselves "Solidarity" are attempting to erode the work of Red Dawn by seeking to elect their own opposing Senator to the Red Senate, which could bring war and instability. Their lack of regard for the Red Team is seen in their refusal to cooperate with the altruistic efforts of Red Dawn due to their own selfish ambitions. Their attempt to break the Red Senate apart WILL NOT succeed so long as every Red Nation does their part in the Red senate election.

Thanks!

The remarkable thing is that the NPO had barely made any change to their electoral propaganda in months, neither use their massive PM's capabilities to make any other propaganda. Not even at the times of the Karma War. They weren't even kind enough to use their ingame PM capabilities to warn the red sphere nations to take shelter when NPO could no longer enforce the Revenge Doctrine and the tech raiders began coming. We all know how much the Red Sphere suffered for that.

However, when it comes to yell against some guys that have dared to challenge the NPO predominance in the Senate, and that all rounded up together barely made for a quarter of the NPO's nation members, then yes, then they hurry up to tell everyone.

The risk of losing a valuable senate seat is worth the effort. The risk of having red team nations falling prey to tech raiders in droves was not.

So, Pacifians... what do you fear from losing a senate seat out of your influence, anyway? It's not like having a senator seat gives you the power to nuke everyone in the Sphere, don't it?

What's the worst that can happen? That they spam the Team Information Panel? Oh, by the way, I must tell it was rude from your to not even use it to inform the unaligned about what was coming. PM'ing everyone was some effort, I acknowelde that. But leaving a message in the Team Information Panel would have killed you?

Maybe you fear that they start spam-sanctioning people? Yeah, so your remaining two senators can then sanction back them all? Come on! Ask the other team colors, they seem to live with plurality in their Senates quite well.

Pacifians, you have all the right to try to hold as many seats in the Red Senate as you can. But please, if someone else is able to take one, don't make a big fluss about it. That would be rather childish.

Edited November 22, 2009 by Krashnaia

[Dilber]

You are just jealous you've been trying for months, and have yet to get anywhere. For all your complaints, you are part of a non-red alliance that allows tech raiding(albeit with approval needed) and helped in the coalition to end the Revenge Doctrine. If you wanted to "help" the red sphere, as you preach, you could have sent your own messages to "warn" them.

Furthermore, these messages are not all from us. They are sent on behalf of Red Dawn, but seeing how we have the greatest capability to send messages on the sphere, we have been sending them.

Edited November 22, 2009 by Dilber

[Sargun II]

Well, the funny thing about this thread is looking at the NPO's humiliating and laughing at the pity fools who dare to challenge them

At first I was like

when the fact is thy are quite scared by that move against their predominance in the Sphere.

and then I

[Irish Wolf]

FYI: MK is one of our biggest customers, and considering I sent you ungrateful cluster$%&@s 12 new sellers just this week I suggest you stfu

FYI: You personally still owe me 50tech...

[Krashnaia]

You are just jealous you've been trying for months, and have yet to get anywhere.

Well, back then when I began to send PM's to warn the unaligned, I thought that I could also make a bid for a seat. So I made a little noise for a month or less.

Got some success -through not enough- because there happens to be a lot of people out there that hate you -I wonder why- and are more than willing to vote anyone that is not one of yours. But that was a lot of months ago.

I'm happy to read that the Solidarity manifesto reflects most of the points I made in my day. Specially about the need to grab a senate seat to show everyone that the Red Sphere was no longer the NPO's playground. Something that would help to bring new people aboard, people that is really needed to revitalize the Sphere. Glad to see someone took the relay.

For all your complaints, you are part of a non-red alliance that helped in the coalition to end the Revenge Doctrine.

Wich was a necessary evil in order to erase the Mondavi Doctrine, that had for years condemned the Red Sphere to stagnation.

However you guys could have minimized the damage by telling the people to take shelter, instead of letting them realize the new situation when the bombs start falling.

If you wanted to "help" the red sphere, as you preach, you could have sent your own messages to "warn" them.

I actually did.

Edited November 22, 2009 by Krashnaia

[Vilien]

Well, I made a little noise for a month or less to grab a seat. Got some success -through not enough- because there happens to be a lot of people out there that hate you -I wonder why- and are more than willing to vote anyone that is not one of yours. But that was a lot of months ago.

You realize that CoJ has a senate seat, right?

[Branimir]

They weren't even kind enough to use their ingame PM capabilities to warn the red sphere nations to take shelter when NPO could no longer enforce the Revenge Doctrine and the tech raiders began coming. We all know how much the Red Sphere suffered for that.

Yes, red sphere suffered, though wonder who is to blame for that?

NPO that protected red for a long time and their messages,...or tech raiding alliances from a coalition that disabled Revenge doctrine,...funnily you being a part of said coalition,...? I find your stance to be ludicrous and hypocritical. Am amazed you even thought how this is a smart way to try to argue.

Totally baffled,...ridiculous,...am I reading this,..lawl

However, when it comes to yell against some guys that have dared to challenge the NPO predominance in the Senate

NPO predominance in the red senate is already part of history. Or did you missed how one seat is no longer in NPO hands.

You are barking in all the wrong ways.

So, Pacifians...

Its Pacificans.

Also you could note that critique which was made about this little formation of red nations, was made by various individuals from various alliances not only NPO so singling us out and in the ridiculous way you did seems quite missed and as not really a defense of this formation of nations but just as an attempt at a failed rant about your favorite alliance to hate.

[Geoffron X]

Krash, unless you somehow gain 300 votes (hint: you won't) you aren't taking the seat. I'm also unclear as to how our unchanged propaganda supports us being scared of you taking a seat of ours. You'd think if we were scared, we'd try a different tactic.

Is Solidarity actually running a senate candidate right now?

I believe so. They have 21 votes. I, for one, am shaking in my boots.

Edited November 22, 2009 by Geoffron X

[Krashnaia]

Krash, unless you somehow gain 300 votes (hint: you won't) you aren't taking the seat. I'm also unclear as to how our unchanged propaganda supports us being scared of you taking a seat of ours. You'd think if we were scared, we'd try a different tactic.

If you happen to read my message a bit more carefully, you may notice that I've never said NPO were scared of me taking a seat.

I'm saying that NPO is scared from the Solidarity guys taking a seat. And the proof are the in-game PM's your people are sending.

If you are not concerned about those Solidarity guys, then what's the point in sending PM's telling crap about them and threatening with war?

Edited November 22, 2009 by Krashnaia

[Dilber]

Well, back then when I began to send PM's to warn the unaligned, I thought that I could also make a bid for a seat. So I made a little noise for a month or less.

Got some success -through not enough- because there happens to be a lot of people out there that hate you -I wonder why- and are more than willing to vote anyone that is not one of yours. But that was a lot of months ago.

I'm happy to read that the Solidarity manifesto reflects most of the points I made in my day. Specially about the need to grab a senate seat to show everyone that the Red Sphere was no longer the NPO's playground. Something that would help to bring new people aboard, people that is really needed to revitalize the Sphere. Glad to see someone took the relay.

Ah yes, Of course. The "NPO Playground" approach. Remember kids, not holding every seat proves that we see the Red Team as still "ours"! You do know there's another organization that has a seat that's not solidarity, right? Either that, or you are trying to call Schattenmann and Villien our puppets, and I can't see them liking that.

Wich was a necessary evil in order to erase the Mondavi Doctrine, that had for years condemned the Red Sphere to stagnation.

However you guys could have minimized the damage by telling the people to take shelter, instead of letting them realize the new situation when the bombs start falling.

I actually did.

"Hey guys, we're about to starting bombing you in...3...2..1..... I'm on YOUR SIDE!" Trying to claim that you did good for the sphere when your alliance was part of the group attacking is asinine.

[Sargun II]

If you happen to read my message a bit more carefully, you may notice that I've never said NPO were scared of me taking a seat.

I'm saying that NPO is scared from the Solidarity guys taking a seat. And the proof are the in-game PM's your people are sending.

If you are not concerned about those Solidarity guys, then what's the point in sending PM's telling crap about them and threatening with war?

They didn't threaten Solidarity with war in that PM you showed. Unless you're going to ninjaedit it or post a second one, I really think you should follow the advice of "read your own source when you argue".

[Geoffron X]

If you happen to read my message a bit more carefully, you may notice that I've never said NPO were scared of me taking a seat.

I'm saying that NPO is scared from the Solidarity guys taking a seat. And the proof are the in-game PM's your people are sending.

If you are not concerned about those Solidarity guys, then what's the point in sending PM's telling crap about them and threatening with war?

...you're closer to a seat then they are.

[Krashnaia]

Ah yes, Of course. The "NPO Playground" approach. Remember kids, not holding every seat proves that we see the Red Team as still "ours"! You do know there's another organization that has a seat that's not solidarity, right? Either that, or you are trying to call Schattenmann and Villien our puppets, and I can't see them liking that.

I aknowelde that ceding a senate seat to a 7-member aliiance was a nice move. As difficult as it's to aknowelde your merits when you then proceed to act so anal in the public forums.

But that doesn't change the fact that the guy is elected with your votes. So, puppet or not, he depends on your support for holding the seat.

Until someone is able to gain that seat by his own merits, "Red Sphere" wil not truly stop to be synonim of "NPO".

And, look, I don't say this 'cuz I hate the NPO. It's just that "Red Sphere = NPO+More Big Aliances" is better than just "Red Sphere = NPO".

"Hey guys, we're about to starting bombing you in...3...2..1..... I'm on YOUR SIDE!" Trying to claim that you did good for the sphere when your alliance was part of the group attacking is asinine.

If my memory serves, it was the NPO who started the war. As the NPO aknowelded in the surrender terms.

I didn't attacked anyone, neither I saw my alliance mates attacking anyone. We were concerned in defeating the agressors, not in vulturing, you know.

Still, what you describe would have been more kind than what you did; tell them you are protecting them, then leave they with their arses open without telling.

When you take the compromise to do something for someone, it's kind to notify them when you stop doing. It's like you tell me "do not worry and sleep, I'm gonna drive the car for you" and then you drive it right into a chasm and jump off without waking me up.

Edited November 22, 2009 by Krashnaia

[Branimir]

If you happen to read my message a bit more carefully, you may notice that I've never said NPO were scared of me taking a seat.

I'm saying that NPO is scared from the Solidarity guys taking a seat. And the proof are the in-game PM's your people are sending.

If you are not concerned about those Solidarity guys, then what's the point in sending PM's telling crap about them and threatening with war?

Message is clear that it comes from Red Dawn and not NPO exclusively.

Message also quite clearly has no threats of war.

"Telling crap" about them, that of course is a matter of point of view. You can see it as such, that is your prerogative but as seen from your totally missed rants,...I dont really think you care much about them as much as making failed rants about alliance you love to hate.

But what are we arguing here anymore anyway? NPO being scared of loosing a senate seat,...we already conceded one. Scared,...of what,...I mean figures are stone cold and they tell a story. Of us not needed to be scared of anybody in the senate race.

I mean this is a waste of time and energy,..ridiculously bad.

[Dilber]

I aknowelde that ceding a senate seat to a 7-member aliiance was a nice move. As difficult as it's to aknowelde your merits when you then proceed to act so anal in the public forums.

But that doesn't change the fact that the guy is elected with your votes. So, puppet or not, he depends on your support for holding the seat.

Until someone is able to gain that seat by his own merits, "Red Sphere" wil not truly stop to be synonim of "NPO".

And, look, I don't say this 'cuz I hate the NPO. It's just that Red Sphere = NPO+More Big Aliances is better than just Red Sphere = NPO.

"Hey, your actions show you are different, but I don't really care!" In regards to your later points, many sphere have senate unity treaties. Where are your complaints about "doing it on their own" there?

Then again, it makes sense you support Solidarity. You aren't from a red sphere alliance, and UED managed to not be one according to their own treaty.

If my memory serves, it was the NPO who started the war. As the NPO aknowelded in the surrender terms.

I didn't attacked anyone, neither I saw my alliance mates attacking anyone. We were concerned in defeating the agressors, not in vulturing, you know.

Still, what you describe would have been more kind than what you did; tell them you are protecting them, then leave they with their arses open.

Ah, if this was all for the greater good, then why didn't the coalition protect them? Our allies weren't really in a position to raid post-war, and that means the only people doing so was your group. Way to provide justice!

[Krashnaia]

I mean this is a waste of time and energy,..ridiculously bad.

I agree. Your posts are a waste of time and energy.

[Branimir]

I agree. Your posts are a waste of time and energy.

Yes, it is a waste of my time and energy, when I spend it replaying to you.

If there would be nothing more then what you already posted and was ripped to shreds, Ill be ending it now.

Edited November 22, 2009 by Branimir

[King Death II]

Just a note, we are not running a candidate right now. We are in the planning and prep stages.

[Krashnaia]

"Hey, your actions show you are different, but I don't really care!" In regards to your later points, many sphere have senate unity treaties. Where are your complaints about "doing it on their own" there?

But if you want to have a Unity Treaty for the Red Sphere, you'll have to come to terms with all the parts. It's not like "Hey, I offer a Unity Treaty. Anyone not joining is breaking the Unity of our Sphere". Things do not work that way.

And to come to terms with other parts, first there have to be other parts. If the NPO is honest about their good willings for the Red Sphere, then leave those guys build up their alliances and coalitions, and instead of laughing at them, try to build bridges and good understanding.

Ah, if this was all for the greater good, then why didn't the coalition protect them? Our allies weren't really in a position to raid post-war, and that means the only people doing so was your group. Way to provide justice!

We didn't compromise to protect them. You did, and if you compromise to something, then at least warn them when you stop.

But anyway that was not my point.

My point is that you didn't bother to warn the red sphere members about the raiders. And that's why it strikes me that you are on the other hand bothering to spam ingame PM's to "warn" the red sphere members about the Solidarity.

Edited November 22, 2009 by Krashnaia

[Krashnaia]

Just a note, we are not running a candidate right now. We are in the planning and prep stages.

Well, I'll do my best to re-direct the people that still vote for me into your ballot.

Just contact me when the time comes.

Good wishes to the NPO in their rebuilding, but if the Red Sphere wants to be the size of Aqua, Black, Blue or Orange, it needs more strong alliances and sides into it. The NPO has made some moves into that direction, but it's not their task to build the new alliances.

Edited November 22, 2009 by Krashnaia

[Elendil old]

Just a note, we are not running a candidate right now. We are in the planning and prep stages.

I would just like to congratulate you guys on becoming a Red Alliance!

[Vilien]

Good wishes to the NPO in their rebuilding, but if the Red Sphere wants to be the size of Aqua, Black, Blue or Orange, it needs more strong alliances and sides into it.

Clearly the best way to achieve growth is to create competing economic blocs and spread disunity on the sphere.

[Dilber]

But if you want to have a Unity Treaty for the Red Sphere, you'll have to come to terms with all the parts. It's not like "Hey, I offer a Unity Treaty. Anyone not joining is breaking the Unity of our Sphere". Things do not work that way.

And to come to terms with other parts, first there have to be other parts. If the NPO is honest about their good willings for the Red Sphere, then leave those guys build up their alliances and coalitions, and instead of laughing at them, try to build bridges and good understanding.

Two of the three solidarity guys pulled out of the foundation of Red Dawn when they found out they couldn't be in charge, and would be equals with others. They took their toys and went home. Now, they try to make their own play, and expect to get a "hey, good job on doing your own thing because you wanted to be a big fish!"

We didn't compromise to protect them. You did, and if you compromise to something, then at least warn them when you stop.

But anyway that was not my point.

My point is that you didn't bother to warn the red sphere members about the raiders. And that's why it strikes me that you are on the other hand bothering to spam ingame PM's to "warn" the red sphere members about the Solidarity.

The raiders are your allies. You can stop them

Edited November 22, 2009 by Dilber