Branimir Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 (edited) Can you all take the back and forth "victim card" talk to another thread. This is about Red Dawn. The growth and unity of the Red Sphere, not about NPO or STA being "victims", so both should quit grabbing the attention and go elsewhere with this nonsense! Apologies, should not have taken the bait which only talked about NPO PR stunt and how should NPO members post to "not push the victim card to far". It indeed isnt about NPO as some perceive it, nor how NPO should respond to nonsense posted by others. I should have overlooked it. Its over from my part, less quality posts shall be ignored by me. Edited October 12, 2009 by Branimir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeinousOne Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 It is funny how Relics of the Old Order still think they can run around the OWF judging the quality of posts while attempting to push that judgement upon everyone else. Change! Change! We are Changing! Very funny how someone can get so bent out of shape over the usage of the term "PR stunt" while at the same time having no compunction against twisting the words of others to their own benefit. Irony anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrotskysRevenge Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 (edited) A sign of declining NPO dominance in the Red Sphere?or A reflection of the new emperor's cooperation in Foreign Affairs? Either way, congrats. Red Dawn is an awesome name. This was developed and initiated under my watch; I was not completely evil, despite OWF characterizations. And yes, Emperor Blackbird is committed to this. And yes, of course, everything we do is a PR stunt. We wouldn't be interested in more trades? Nah. We wouldn't be interested in more economic benefits? Nah. Not at all. I know most of you are incapable of allowing the NPO any credit for doing something just because it is the right thing to do (i.e. Revenge Doctrine), but come on. This is a win-win all around for everyone concerned. What benefits the red sphere, benefits the NPO and vice versa. Edited October 12, 2009 by TrotskysRevenge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeinousOne Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 This was developed and initiated under my watch; I was not completely evil, despite OWF characterizations. And yes, Emperor Blackbird is committed to this. And yes, of course, everything we do is a PR stunt. We wouldn't be interested in more trades? Nah. We wouldn't be interested in more economic benefits? Nah. Not at all. I know most of you are incapable of allowing the NPO any credit for doing something just because it is the right thing to do (i.e. Revenge Doctrine), but come on. This is a win-win all around for everyone concerned. What benefits the red sphere, benefits the NPO. All of that would have benefited NPO before the Karma War too Moo. Why did you decide to implement it now instead of then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heracles the Great Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 All of that would have benefited NPO before the Karma War too Moo. Why did you decide to implement it now instead of then? Did the Red Dawn even exist prior to the Karma War? Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought I recalled it being formed after (or maybe during) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow King Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Thanks Branimir o/ Red Like I've said before, from someone who has actually had the pleasure of working with Pacifica since the war, they are honestly at heart doing this for the benefit of everyone. Not just doing this for their own PR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Napoleon IIII Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Has this ever happened before? I think not It is clearly a ploy by the NPO for good behavior...Or maybe that stern talking too acutally worked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeinousOne Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Did the Red Dawn even exist prior to the Karma War? Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought I recalled it being formed after (or maybe during) The Red Dawn did not exist prior to the Karma War because NPO would not let such a thing exist. It came into existance when NPO was not in a position to counter it. Now they embrace it because they dont have as many friends as they had before. Thus it is a public relations move in order to make more friends. Now to some, seeing that the first Red Dawn Senator coming from CoJ which is led by Schat might consider this a bit of a stunt to show that Red is moving on from the past. Now I suppose some people are hyper-defensive over the word "stunt" as they think it has some sort of negative connotation. It does not to me though so when I used it previously it was not meant to carry a negative connotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldConqueror Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Which only lends more credence to my questioning of branimir's purpose for attacking STA while two of it's members are here congratulating this action. On top of that it is two members that have not been so nice in their previous comments about NPO. This is not just about NPO though and this is not even an NPO announcement now is it? This is about Red and that is whom Aimee Mann directed that comment towards. If you guys want to become part of Red Dawn then you really should stop showing us that when you think of Red Sphere you think NPO. It is not just you anymore.It is just sad to see some of your relics, such as Branimir, completely unable to handle themselves in a new world where people are beginning to accept the things you guys are doing. Try not to be as defensive as him, it will serve you much better. Well I can see where Bran is coming from. We were defending this announcement from those that would see Red Dawn as a NPO puppet bloc, and you say we are playing the victim card to gain PR. We will explain and defend our actions as we see fit. Yes, it was directed at Red, and this announcement is a product of Red Dawn-NPO cooperation, and is a common celebration of our progress together in this sphere. Like it or not, the NPO is an integral part of Red. So do you think it is a bit over the top to accuse us of still thinking we own Red, when we have just proven we are willing to work with anyone that calls Red home? And I am just glad to have Branimir posting on the OWF again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heracles the Great Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 The Red Dawn did not exist prior to the Karma War because NPO would not let such a thing exist. It came into existance when NPO was not in a position to counter it. Now they embrace it because they dont have as many friends as they had before. Thus it is a public relations move in order to make more friends. Now to some, seeing that the first Red Dawn Senator coming from CoJ which is led by Schat might consider this a bit of a stunt to show that Red is moving on from the past. Now I suppose some people are hyper-defensive over the word "stunt" as they think it has some sort of negative connotation. It does not to me though so when I used it previously it was not meant to carry a negative connotation. I don't know how you can say they're not in a position to counter it nor how you can say they need it - they have the numbers to out vote red dawn by a large margin and don't need their trades to succeed. Is/could it be a stunt for PR? Sure - I'm not saying it is or isn't, but to go off on Trotsky for not doing this prior to Karma is a bit ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeinousOne Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Well I can see where Bran is coming from. We were defending this announcement from those that would see Red Dawn as a NPO puppet bloc, and you say we are playing the victim card to gain PR. We will explain and defend our actions as we see fit. Yes, it was directed at Red, and this announcement is a product of Red Dawn-NPO cooperation, and is a common celebration of our progress together in this sphere. Like it or not, the NPO is an integral part of Red. So do you think it is a bit over the top to accuse us of still thinking we own Red, when we have just proven we are willing to work with anyone that calls Red home? And I am just glad to have Branimir posting on the OWF again. Well, first off, thank you for simply responding to my posts rather then attempting to twist and discredit. It is a much better projection of an NPO member then that which Branimir shows, even if you are glad to have him around. Now, considering the first Senator of Red Dawn is from CoJ which is lead by Schattenmann then I would say to anyone that thinks its a puppet bloc clearly does not know The Schat at all. I have no inkling at all that Red Dawn is a puppet bloc of NPO, ok? Of course this required Red Dawn and NPO cooperation. I don't think anyone is arguing against such at all. Now as far as my comment about you thinking you own Red, that had to due with your particular words about my alliance mate. Aimee was commenting about Red Dawn and Red Dawn only and you had to point out Aimee's posting history towards NPO. That was pretty much unnecessary. Do I personally think that you still think you own Red? Of course I do. Why? I am not going to go back and look but someone from NPO stated that if NPO wanted it could still maintain all three seats on its own if it wanted to. That basically means you own it. You own it but have decided to share it with Red Dawn. That is the reality of the situation WC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeinousOne Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 (edited) I don't know how you can say they're not in a position to counter it nor how you can say they need it - they have the numbers to out vote red dawn by a large margin and don't need their trades to succeed.Is/could it be a stunt for PR? Sure - I'm not saying it is or isn't, but to go off on Trotsky for not doing this prior to Karma is a bit ridiculous. Go off? I asked him a question. Are you his lawyer? I never said they couldn't counter it. Just look at my above response to WC. As far as them needing it? Oh yeah, NPO needs some more friends that are willing to speak up for them. Having Schat willing to speak up for you publically is a pretty nice side affect of all this I am sure. You are limiting your perspective to just Red in this when really it has much more meaning and that is ok. Why some folks are so dead set defensive against admitting such is a mystery to me. Edited October 12, 2009 by HeinousOne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sal Paradise Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 lol Schattenmann is an NPO puppet? So that's how he got all those screenshots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weirdgus Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 I just want to say that I personally voted for Biff Webster of Wagglefka for red senate this week and it made me happy o/ Red Dawn! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astronaut jones Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 (edited) Did the Red Dawn even exist prior to the Karma War? Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought I recalled it being formed after (or maybe during) I believe the point he was implying, which you may have missed, was that before the karma war, something like Red Dawn would not have been possible, as the NPO had locked down the red sphere for itself, and itself only. edit: and I see that heinousone has already mentioned that.. oh well. Edited October 12, 2009 by astronaut jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeinousOne Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 I believe the point he was implying, which you may have missed, was that before the karma war, something like Red Dawn would not have been possible, as the NPO had locked down the red sphere for itself, and itself only.edit: and I see that heinousone has already mentioned that.. oh well. Yes I did, but having someone else point out such to them might help them realize such. Now with that being said I do indeed commend them on going forth with this now. My question to Moo was simply phrased that way due to how he phrased his response, a question I am most sure will not be responded to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldConqueror Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Well, first off, thank you for simply responding to my posts rather then attempting to twist and discredit. It is a much better projection of an NPO member then that which Branimir shows, even if you are glad to have him around.Now, considering the first Senator of Red Dawn is from CoJ which is lead by Schattenmann then I would say to anyone that thinks its a puppet bloc clearly does not know The Schat at all. I have no inkling at all that Red Dawn is a puppet bloc of NPO, ok? Of course this required Red Dawn and NPO cooperation. I don't think anyone is arguing against such at all. Now as far as my comment about you thinking you own Red, that had to due with your particular words about my alliance mate. Aimee was commenting about Red Dawn and Red Dawn only and you had to point out Aimee's posting history towards NPO. That was pretty much unnecessary. Do I personally think that you still think you own Red? Of course I do. Why? I am not going to go back and look but someone from NPO stated that if NPO wanted it could still maintain all three seats on its own if it wanted to. That basically means you own it. You own it but have decided to share it with Red Dawn. That is the reality of the situation WC. Well, it seems we disagree less than I thought. I too think that calling Red Dawn a puppet bloc is absurd, and I wasn't saying that you thought that, just that there were others earlier in the thread that had stated as such. It probably was unnecessary, yes. The reason I mentioned it is that I usually enjoy posts from STA members, but hers have always struck me as very acerbic and venomous, especially when they relate to the NPO. So it came as a surprise to see a positive comment. But as you point out, it was directed at Red Dawn, not us. And that really comes down to the inferences drawn from words. Saying 'the NPO owns Red', to me, brings back memories of the Moldavi Doctrine, because then we really did own Red. Now we don't. Now we are the biggest player on Red, certainly, but we don't own it. The way I'd probably characterize Red sphere now is a sharehouse. NPO may have the biggest room, but its still everyone's house. And yeah, that was me that said we could still have all 3 seats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldConqueror Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 (edited) All of that would have benefited NPO before the Karma War too Moo. Why did you decide to implement it now instead of then? And if Moo doesn't mind, I can probably take this one. Before the war, it was not necessary. Why, you ask, what has changed? Well during the war, when our military resources were tied up, some alliances decided to take advantage of our preoccupation and raid Red unaligneds, destroying the peaceful sanctuary they had enjoyed since the proclamation of the Revenge Doctrine. Our sphere was ravaged by these people, and the Red population was drastically reduced. With us being at war for the foreseeable future, and then terms after that, we would be unable to enforce Red Protection Court cases for some time. A new way to reinvigorate our sphere was needed, and the Divine Bovine provided. Edited October 12, 2009 by WorldConqueror Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeinousOne Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 And if Moo doesn't mind, I can probably take this one. Before the war, it was not necessary. Why, you ask, what has changed? Well during the war, when our military resources were tied up, some alliances decided to take advantage of our preoccupation and raid Red unaligneds, destroying the peaceful sanctuary they had enjoyed since the proclamation of the Revenge Doctrine. Our sphere was ravaged by these people, and the Red population was drastically reduced. With us being at war for the foreseeable future, and then terms after that, we would be unable to enforce Red Protection Court cases for some time. A new way to reinvigorate our sphere was needed, and the Divine Bovine provided. Fair response, but would not having allowed another option besides joining the NPO or keeping your red alliance below twenty members have been beneficial to Red Sphere growth before the Karma War as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldConqueror Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Yes it would have done, but back then the sphere had a decent population because they were safe from raids, plus the potential economic benefits were outweighed by the tangible security benefits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wickedj Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 I only made it three pages, i assume the last few are the same. Congrats to Schatt, Biff and the rest of CoJ on getting Red Dawn up and running. Is this the first non NPO senator since Vox took it almost a year ago? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doitzel Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Indeed - to call this a free sentate would be a lie. It is a controlled senate where control has been released to another party. What it is is an effective, rather than ceremonial, relinquishing of exclusive jurisdiction over the red sphere. That's a pretty big step. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrotskysRevenge Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Yes I did, but having someone else point out such to them might help them realize such. Now with that being said I do indeed commend them on going forth with this now. My question to Moo was simply phrased that way due to how he phrased his response, a question I am most sure will not be responded to. We actually were discussing the possibility of opening up the red sphere before the war broke out; we just had not reached a decision on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eretz Yisrael Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 It is funny how Relics of the Old Order still think they can run around the OWF judging the quality of posts while attempting to push that judgement upon everyone else.Change! Change! We are Changing! Very funny how someone can get so bent out of shape over the usage of the term "PR stunt" while at the same time having no compunction against twisting the words of others to their own benefit. Irony anyone? Don't forget to hail Emperor Corbama on your way out, dearie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinRa Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 We actually were discussing the possibility of opening up the red sphere before the war broke out; we just had not reached a decision on it. Yeah, people are really going to believe that aren't they. Still, it'll be very interested to see what happen to the Cult from here on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.