Overrated Alliance Government

[New Frontier]

There seems to be a lot of confidently-expressed judgment in this discussion by those without Random's grasp of the history - of Sponge or many of the others under discussion. Everyone who has made her or his mark on Planet Bob has been fallible, sometimes spectacularly so. But if we are going to pass judgment, let us do it on the basis of someone's actual record - the whole record. Given how people talk about Sponge these days, I'd have to say he is presently under-rated.

Silly Pingu. Random doesn't know anything of Polar history.

[Un4Gvn1]

It's true, he proved he was genius at this. Time and time again.

Yes, and that is one of the reasons Slayer got under skins; folks just got owned and pissed off about it ... or alliances got isolated and a bunch of folks would get pissed.

TBB is right. How boring would the world scene be if there were no 'trouble-makers'?

All rulers finding the trendy way to 'think' and act and marching to that tune would NOT be interesting.

I'm not sure what game you play, but in my book, that's a bad thing.

If half the planet hates you, well good luck surviving much longer.

I'm on the planet where the usual discourse could be *crudely* called 'ragging on one another'.

Edited October 6, 2009 by Peggy_Sue

[WildThing]

Yes, and that is one of the reasons Slayer got under skins; folks just got owned and pissed off about it ... or alliances got isolated and a bunch of folks would get pissed.

TBB is right. How boring would the world scene be if there were no 'trouble-makers'?

All rulers finding the trendy way to 'think' and act and marching to that tune would NOT be interesting.

I'm on the planet where the usual discourse could be *crudely* called 'ragging on one another'.

Feel free to reply to Delta's post, or mine.

[Pingu]

I miss you, Pingu.

No need to - you and all Polars are always welcome in my bar.

[CptGodzilla]

The essential thing to being rated in the first place is that people have to actually have heard of you. I doubt most of the people who are being nominated as ''overrated'' really gave a toss about being rated in the first place and that many of the people who call them overrated even rate at all.

@ WildThing, I live under a bridge, I eat live goats and I am a troll. However I never troll ramdomly or without a purpose. When tasked to do so by my former Emperor I would embrace the concept wholeheartedly. I am not ashamed of it, I actually thought I was pretty good at it sometimes. I seldom venture out these days, more important roles for me to play I think

Polaris has had some success, it is everything to do with a well disciplined alliance who follow a strong leadership team and the emphasis is on team. I direct, others do. If that makes overrated, I can deal with it, I exist only to serve my alliance, not win popularity contests. Polaris will continue to be successful if and when I retire because of the legacy of all its leadership good and bad. To claim one person has done things without acknowledging the support network he has is folly, just as it is to ignore that good leaders develop good support networks.

You sound way too full of yourself, which leads to becoming overrated

That whole moral rant you had during the karma war doesn't help your case

Edited October 6, 2009 by CptGodzilla

[Space Ghost]

Hizzy because I'm a troll

[AlmightyGrub]

You sound way too full of yourself, which leads to becoming overrated

That whole moral rant you had during the karma war doesn't help your case

I am glad you remember my posts with such affection. Popularity was not the purpose of the post, and it still doesn't concern me. As for being full of it.. ha, once again who cares? If my admission to being a decent troll is too much for you, I will gladly be overrated any day.

[Penguin]

I am glad you remember my posts with such affection. Popularity was not the purpose of the post, and it still doesn't concern me. As for being full of it.. ha, once again who cares? If my admission to being a decent troll is too much for you, I will gladly be overrated any day.

Tut tut. -5 points from your October ratings for cutting your ellipses short again. I am updating my spreadsheets.

You're welcome to rate as you please, CptGodzilla. I just dropped by to make sure "the public" had at least one insider's voice to weigh against their own observations.

[CptGodzilla]

I am glad you remember my posts with such affection. Popularity was not the purpose of the post, and it still doesn't concern me. As for being full of it.. ha, once again who cares? If my admission to being a decent troll is too much for you, I will gladly be overrated any day.

I wasn't talking about popularity, I was more on the "high horse" factor... the one you were so proudly on with that post. (I bet that post did nothing for NpO and was all for your personal reasons. I can't see any reason why an alliance would care what you say about others)

As for your post in this thread, "I direct, others do." You are very full of yourself. You say that like whatever good has been done in NpO has been your idea and you told people to do it.

Lemme give you a tip that I found out. Activity within leadership (the doing part, not directing part) will progress your alliance further.

[Epiphanus]

Not trying to hate on the people I'm posting but:

New Frontier/Cheyenne

Anu Drake

Those two are ones who have posted here, and I thought to myself, "they belong on this list."

<3

[AlmightyGrub]

I wasn't talking about popularity, I was more on the "high horse" factor... the one you were so proudly on with that post. (I bet that post did nothing for NpO and was all for your personal reasons. I can't see any reason why an alliance would care what you say about others)

As for your post in this thread, "I direct, others do." You are very full of yourself. You say that like whatever good has been done in NpO has been your idea and you told people to do it.

Lemme give you a tip that I found out. Activity within leadership (the doing part, not directing part) will progress your alliance further.

You are either an idiot or have the worst comprehension of actual leadership known to man or a combination of both. Not only will the leader doing everything accomplish only as much as one man can do, but it will waste the talents of so many others. Delegation is one of the fundamental aspects to running a large alliance as is providing clear direction for said delegation. Like I said, no actual idea, but keep swinging away trying to connect, it amuses me greatly.

As for high horses, I am not sure you have the requisite ability to read my rather infrequent posts without significant snow blindness. I don't own a high horse and if I did I probably would have eaten him when we ran out of goats under the bridge shortly after the UJW. Enjoy the fullness of my full. If you go back and read the actual post and not what you thought it said, you might actually find it quite the reasonable position. Considering it served its purpose, I would regard it a success rather than a failure, your mileage may of course vary. I guess in your part of the world shooting people trying to surrender might be considered fair?

Edited October 6, 2009 by AlmightyGrub

[Fireandthepassion]

hooo thats hard.

I don't know if it's been said or not. If it has I apologize, but...

I see what you did there.

[Deadshot]

I wasn't talking about popularity, I was more on the "high horse" factor... the one you were so proudly on with that post. (I bet that post did nothing for NpO and was all for your personal reasons. I can't see any reason why an alliance would care what you say about others)

As for your post in this thread, "I direct, others do." You are very full of yourself. You say that like whatever good has been done in NpO has been your idea and you told people to do it.

Lemme give you a tip that I found out. Activity within leadership (the doing part, not directing part) will progress your alliance further.

Seems to me that Polaris has progressed quite nicely under Emperor Grub. He deserves the credit he receives.

Also as an insider on the workings of Anu Drake, while he may not be popular with many of you, he was a very hard working leader. He not only gave directions, but also delegated to others, and did not hesitate to carry the burdens of his members mistakes on his shoulders. He stood up for every member, and since it is apparently not too common, never hesitated to personally help a noob. I was one of them. He may not have been the most loved by the world, but he dedicated himself to his alliance, and knew when to step down when real life got the better of him. I don't expect this to change anyone's mind, so take it as you will. I guess it can go in the same boat as those who so vehemently defend Hoo and the others.

[CptGodzilla]

You are either an idiot or have the worst comprehension of actual leadership known to man or a combination of both. Not only will the leader doing everything accomplish only as much as one man can do, but it will waste the talents of so many others. Delegation is one of the fundamental aspects to running a large alliance as is providing clear direction for said delegation. Like I said, no actual idea, but keep swinging away trying to connect, it amuses me greatly.

As for high horses, I am not sure you have the requisite ability to read my rather infrequent posts without significant snow blindness. I don't own a high horse and if I did I probably would have eaten him when we ran out of goats under the bridge shortly after the UJW. Enjoy the fullness of my full. If you go back and read the actual post and not what you thought it said, you might actually find it quite the reasonable position. Considering it served its purpose, I would regard it a success rather than a failure, your mileage may of course vary. I guess in your part of the world shooting people trying to surrender might be considered fair?

I'm not saying delegation is bad. I'm saying you alliance will feel more connected with a leader who gets his hands dirty once in a while. I actually agree that a leader doing everything is fail. Any shmuck can sit at the head of an alliance, bark out orders, and claim success.

And yes, it is completely fair.

Also, you pretty much derailed the topic of Overrated alliance leaders onto the topic of Grub (if that doesn't show you something). Congrats.

Edited October 6, 2009 by CptGodzilla

[AlmightyGrub]

I'm not saying delegation is bad. I'm saying you alliance will feel more connected with a leader who gets his hands dirty once in a while. I actually agree that a leader doing everything is fail. Any shmuck can sit at the head of an alliance, bark out orders, and claim success.

And yes, it is completely fair.

Also, you pretty much derailed the topic of Overrated alliance leaders onto the topic of Grub (if that doesn't show you something). Congrats.

Well done.

[Moridin]

As for your post in this thread, "I direct, others do." You are very full of yourself. You say that like whatever good has been done in NpO has been your idea and you told people to do it.

I... I don't believe it. Grub makes a very modest post, giving others much of the credit for the progress Polar has made, and you try to misrepresent that by taking bits and pieces and taping them together to make it look like he is taking all the credit. I'm impressed, really, I wasn't sure it was possible to draw the entirely opposite meaning out of what was really a pretty clear post.

[Crymson]

You sound way too full of yourself, which leads to becoming overrated

That whole moral rant you had during the karma war doesn't help your case

Both statements you've made here are entirely subjective. Per the 'rant' in question: there were, I know, many who felt the same as Grub did on that particular issue.

[Crymson]

Well said, one thing all the 'greats' (people on the fantasy lists) have in common, is being good with words and I certainly won't deny you that. Nor will I deny that you are a good troll when you want to be. I actually admired it at the time, I really enjoyed the Polaris troll squad hitting up Gremlins all the time. It was amusing, and generally well done. But seeing as it was a Citadel fire-team that eventually took you guys down, I can't help but think that while the troll squad was probably successful at what it did, Sponge going inactive at around the time he needed to capitalize on the tensions you'd created meant that in the end, you helped bring Polaris down.

Your reference to the forces arrayed against Polar in that war as a 'Citadel fire-team' is very misplaced. The force that initially declared war on Polaris was composed of nine alliances spanning (including overlaps) five different blocs, and it was certainly NOT a Citadel operation.

Edited October 6, 2009 by Crymson

[WildThing]

Your reference to the forces arrayed against Polar in that war as a 'Citadel fire-team' is very misplaced. The force that initially declared war on Polaris was composed of nine alliances spanning (including overlaps) five different blocs, and it was certainly NOT a Citadel operation.

I know, I know... It just looked nicer in my post that way.

Although TOP can certainly claim quite a bit of the credit at least, I've heard you personally were responsible for a lot of it actually. I do, however, refuse to believe that Dilber played no part in it, and I also know IRON, GGA, Valhalla and whoever else felt 'wronged' by Sponge were all happy to dance along too.

[Crymson]

I know, I know... It just looked nicer in my post that way.

Although TOP can certainly claim quite a bit of the credit at least, I've heard you personally were responsible for a lot of it actually. I do, however, refuse to believe that Dilber played no part in it, and I also know IRON, GGA, Valhalla and whoever else felt 'wronged' by Sponge were all happy to dance along too.

I seem somewhere along the way to have achieved a personal reputation per dealings in foreign affairs. While Grandmaster of TOP, it was my job to represent and execute in foreign affairs the desires of TOP's membership, and I always did my best to do so; whatever aforementioned reputation I have is undeserved, as I was never acting on the basis of anything but the above. As such, attributing any sort of personal responsibility to me in foreign affairs matters would be rather silly. Further, it'd be very misplaced in this case in any event; hostility against Polar at the time was immense and held by many, many alliances, and it was that---not some backroom dealings---that in the main brought the war about.

Edited October 6, 2009 by Crymson

[WildThing]

I seem somewhere along the way to have achieved a personal reputation per dealings in foreign affairs. While Grandmaster of TOP, it was my job to represent in foreign affairs the desires of TOP's membership, and that is what I did my best to do; whatever aforementioned reputation I have is undeserved, as I was never acting on the basis of anything but the above.

While I totally agree with what you're saying, I've also been lead to the conclusion that if you weren't Grandmaster at the time, the war wouldn't have happened when it did. TOP needed a war-oriented Grandmaster to actually conduct the will of the people.

[Crymson]

While I totally agree with what you're saying, I've also been lead to the conclusion that if you weren't Grandmaster at the time, the war wouldn't have happened when it did. TOP needed a war-oriented Grandmaster to actually conduct the will of the people.

Given the wish for military action against Polar that existed in many other alliances at the time, TOP's participation was certainly not necessary for the war to go forward. Feel free to ask around about that to the others who were, in the event, involved in the war.

Per the necessity for a 'war-oriented Grandmaster': I'll re-iterate again that I was acting only on the basis of the desires of TOP's membership at the time. Such is how representative democracy works. In any event, trust me; the membership was geared up for the war---it was a long time in the coming---such that any Grandmaster who was in office at the time would have had to be criminally irresponsible to not make an effort to bring it about.

[Ellis]

And yes, it is completely fair.

I'll remember to bring this up next time you're on the loosing side.

[D34th]

See WildThing? I knew it was you!

[ponken]

Crymson is not a war-oriented Grandmaster. The man cant even deploy his own soldiers without ending up in anarchy...