OOC Cronyism and CNRP

[The Man At Your Door]

IC: Every single living member of New Crete commits suicide at the exact sametime. New Crete, the people, the government effectively cease to exist.

OOC: Someone you all know pointed out something to me that makes alot of sense. This roleplay is literally over-run with OOC cronies doing little favors for those peole that they support for out of character reasons.

The Arabian Campaign, as it was pointed out to me, is mostly about OOC.

The Texas issue, again as it was pointed out to me and I agree completely, is all about people liking Otto more than they like Chris oocly.

Thank you for your time here, but I won't be back.

[Sargun II]

See you later, firestorm.

[Justinian the Mighty]

IC: Every single living member of New Crete commits suicide at the exact sametime. New Crete, the people, the government effectively cease to exist.

OOC: Someone you all know pointed out something to me that makes alot of sense. This roleplay is literally over-run with OOC cronies doing little favors for those peole that they support for out of character reasons.

The Arabian Campaign, as it was pointed out to me, is mostly about OOC.

The Texas issue, again as it was pointed out to me and I agree completely, is all about people liking Otto more than they like Chris oocly.

Thank you for your time here, but I won't be back.

HOW DARE YOU PRESUME I KNOW WHOEVER YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT!!!

[Subtleknifewielder]

I am sorry to hear that.

That's an interesting rage-quit, though. If those situations were bothering me to that degree, I personally would just ignore them and go completely isolationist.

[iamthey]

Eh to some degree I understand the sentiment you hold. Awhile back during nordland's existence it was pretty much the case that several members of the RP community had an occ dislike of nordland and the nordic rpers; and thus carried this dislike with them from nation to nation. Personally I wish such things wouldn't occur of course it is an RP, and we are real OOC people rping ICly so true objectivity will always be impossible. It is also sometimes just a matter of trust, if I just outright don't trust someone on an OOC level I am generally just going to be indifferent to them IC wise.

As for cronyism being present, perhaps, but I don't really know if I would consider it a bad thing; in the end the actions taken by the different factions or cabals around the RP community just generate intrigue, and keep the game interesting. Without such groups there really wouldn't be a community, or much of a game at all. In reality I think your use of the term Cronyism is just an exploitation of its assumed negativity, making it little more than a buzz word used to make implied points about these groups and the community. A better description of what is occurring is the simple parity between IC alliances and OOC relationships which is to be assumed in any game. I don't think I have ever seen people who hate one another OOC RP an IC alliance together.

However, on the case of the Arabian affair I have to disagree with you. While there may be personal friendship between lavo, and voodoo (as well as the others involved), and while there may be a natural desire to help one another out; there is a clear IC basis for what is being done. Lavo's character has been consistent throughout the length of his RP and shared an alliance and friendship with the characters being RP'd by Voodoo (Establishing IC preference and trust). Moreover the Rebel Army IC wise has had a non-existent, if not poor rapport with the present regime in south Arabia (Roachin) (Establishing IC dislike, and basis for a desire to oust the existing regime). That being said Voodoo is Rping a popular uprising and movement outside and inside roachin to re-establish the previous regime. Lavo, and by assocication the EU assisting in this re-establishment of novak is entirely consistent and has a clear line of IC continuity. In short, this is a well thought out RP, with a clear IC justification; its legitimacy in that sense shouldn't be challenged. Moreover as you can't really know the mind of voodoo or Lavo you or anyone else's presumption that this is an OOC matter is more based in ignorance, and prejudice than in reality.

That aside in comparison to some of the "crony" antics pulled in the past this is fairly benign. At one time particular Rpers were essentially recruiting in friends from outside RP to build up a coalition or merger that was essentially centrally controlled by them. We had ten to twenty people who held nations and never posted but once every twenty days to ensure they were not purged. People would recruit people into white space or protectorate land then have them gift them the land. All of which had zero RP basis behind it, and was fairly transparent in its "unethical" nature, thus in such cases calling people on "metagaming" or otherwise exploiting the OOC IC divide to their advantage would fully justified and called for. However labeling the arabian affair similarly I think would be a mistake.

Needless to say if you feel that you can't participate in an RP world where OOC friend RP as allies, IC allies help one another out, and people RP aggressively (all of which is pretty standard to any similar RP and are to be expected) then clearly this isn't the place for you and you should leave. Thanks for stopping by, have a nice life.

Edited September 25, 2009 by iamthey

[Executive Minister]

I think this thread wins the award for "Most Controversial Title, 2009." I mean, as soon as I saw this, I lol wutted, but without the lol.

[Stefano Palmieri]

I think this thread wins the award for "Most Controversial Title, 2009." I mean, as soon as I saw this, I lol wutted, but without the lol.

So did I

Anywhoo There will always be OOC reasoning behind actions. Hasn't been the first time, definitely will not be the last. I kinda dont get where the cronyism is coming from but eh *shrugs*.

[Executive Minister]

So did I

Anywhoo There will always be OOC reasoning behind actions. Hasn't been the first time, definitely will not be the last. I kinda dont get where the cronyism is coming from but eh *shrugs*.

OOC and IC viewpoints can be parallel, because honestly, its bound to be. As long as the person at the computer is typing what the IC person in the government says, there will be some correlation. To expect otherwise is absurd.

[Zarfef]

The Arabian war between Lavo and the Red Sands nations is hardly an OOC affair. It has an OOC motivation that Lavo is friends with Voodoo so he wants to get him some land back in the RP that Voodoo wants (and that is close to Lavo on his weaker front). But to say it has no IC motivations equally as well is silly.

You see, Lavos' character is also friends with Voodoo's character IC in a strong manner, so their usage of war was the same as their OOC usage. The same happens to be true with Red Sands Members, it is not strange to think that I consider Zephyr, EM and Krieg as friends (not my only friends in RP but they are certainly friends). It just happens that when you role-play wars and other people fight by your side, you start to like them and so your IG like and your OOC like form a mutual bond that grows rather well... and spins off some really heated IC play as you can infuse your OOC attack of your friend to think how you would feel if it were in IC attack with weapons.

But IC anger doesn't imply that you should hate the other RPer, you may have VERY passionate emotions.. or so I know I do... but in reality you shouldn't hate them... this isn't always as easy as it sounds as I especially found out recently and we're trying to be more respectful to each other to some extent...

That stated. You're the new guy who ate up Greece... I gave up Greece in a really big event with Lavo so you could have it (Proof that OOC RPers are thicker then IC events that you claim), don't quit over such minor details. You'll get over it soon enough and realize that nobody can have a completely neutral RP from OOC and IC, but we can certainly try!

P.S. I DID majorly do an OOC event with the spy thing with Sargun, it was meant to be a joke and I'd never Rp'd with him before. Spoiler of what was going to happen...

I was placing a statue in each nation of their national leader in the town square which would dance to the sound of Caramel Dancen while they're heads spun full 360 deg and they fired laser-pen style lasers out of their eyes grabbing any unlucky bystander and hugging them while spinning in a circle before temporarily malfunctioning and launching them into the surrounding area. Sargun was added to the IC joke as the only OOC member for banning me for no good reason from #CNRP... but it was meant to be a bit of funny RP, nothing more... I was even hoping they would poke the fun back and make a statue of Zarfef in a similiar veign... I'd of had him come out and join it in dancing and made it a national monument and declared the day to be had off by everyone .

Edited September 26, 2009 by Zarfef

[king of cochin]

I agree with the OP in some way, case in point texas.

The whole basis of reich vs texas war is because otto is an older player and hence better liked than kingchris.

It is true that the war is legal but on one scale it is kind of unpalatable. Kingchris was given the land by Tahoe, now when Otto is back Tahoe backtracks on kingchris in his favor with his friends backing up the old guy returning with an absolutely inconvincing RP.

Legal, yes. Palatable, no. Just like generalissimo said a while back there IS an entrenched elitism in CNRP that works against new players.

[Amyante]

I agree with the OP in some way, case in point texas.

The whole basis of reich vs texas war is because otto is an older player and hence better liked than kingchris.

It is true that the war is legal but on one scale it is kind of unpalatable. Kingchris was given the land by Tahoe, now when Otto is back Tahoe backtracks on kingchris in his favor with his friends backing up the old guy returning with an absolutely inconvincing RP.

Legal, yes. Palatable, no. Just like generalissimo said a while back there IS an entrenched elitism in CNRP that works against new players.

^ This.

Either way, i'd have to say that elitism in some form or another is inevitable on the larger RP forums with a fairly sized playerbase. Favoritism (both IC and OOC) amongst players is pretty much inevitable, and the more respected and/or more established an RPer is the more likely he'll get the benefit of the doubt. For example, i sincerely doubt Sargun could have gotten away with the way he created Carthage if it weren't for this, because let's face it, had he done that as a new player he'd have been rolled before the day was up.

Given that this is a game where people can only grow larger by taking land from other nations, CNRP as a whole is more susceptible to elitism and favoritism than most. Lacking a common goal, there will always be people turning this into a popularity contest, as elbowing your way up to (political or military) greatness has proven to be a common tactic. I knew this when i signed up for CNRP, and even though i try to avoid it as much as i can myself i do tend to lean more towards the players i respect as well.

tl;dr - It's part of the game.

[Lynneth]

[...] as elbowing your way up to (political or military) greatness has proven to be a common tactic.

I never elbowed my way up, I think. Yet people <3 me.

I wonder why?

[Sargun II]

It is true that the war is legal but on one scale it is kind of unpalatable. Kingchris was given the land by Tahoe, now when Otto is back Tahoe backtracks on kingchris in his favor with his friends backing up the old guy returning with an absolutely inconvincing RP.

You're completely wrong here. There are many people on KingChris' side here, they're just unwilling to act. Tahoe has always been an ally of Otto, Otto gave him his land to watch over it and trusted Tahoe to watch it. That's an IC promise that Tahoe is keeping.

Either way, i'd have to say that elitism in some form or another is inevitable on the larger RP forums with a fairly sized playerbase. Favoritism (both IC and OOC) amongst players is pretty much inevitable, and the more respected and/or more established an RPer is the more likely he'll get the benefit of the doubt. For example, i sincerely doubt Sargun could have gotten away with the way he created Carthage if it weren't for this, because let's face it, had he done that as a new player he'd have been rolled before the day was up.

I was going to get rolled but people decided not to act. There were many people who disliked what I did and it probably has less to do with me being older here and more to do with I won't hesitate to nuke everything precious about their RPs. That's worth a lot more than some elitist revenge.

[Shadowsage]

I was going to get rolled but people decided not to act. There were many people who disliked what I did and it probably has less to do with me being older here and more to do with I won't hesitate to nuke everything precious about their RPs. That's worth a lot more than some elitist revenge.

Gotta love nukes.

In all seriousness, we all know it happens to varying degrees. I'm surprised there's a thread up to !@#$%* about it.

[Subtleknifewielder]

You're completely wrong here. There are many people on KingChris' side here, they're just unwilling to act. Tahoe has always been an ally of Otto, Otto gave him his land to watch over it and trusted Tahoe to watch it. That's an IC promise that Tahoe is keeping.

If they are unwiling to act, it's because those American nations who back KingChris won;t allow 'outside interference' either.

[King Kevz]

If they are unwiling to act, it's because those American nations who back KingChris won;t allow 'outside interference' either.

But that is an IC response not an OOC one.

[Subtleknifewielder]

But that is an IC response not an OOC one.

I understand that. I'm just a little mad that the Americas won;t clean up their own messes.

[Tahsir]

Almost every new player to CNRP gets invaded, bombed, or attacked in some way. Want the best example of this? Sarah Tintagyl, Her nation was nuked early on just because she had a alliance with Martens, which she didn't fight for, and she was forced to leave Europe.

Yet, I'm sure a lot of new players think Sarah has her own cronies

[Executive Minister]

Almost every new player to CNRP gets invaded, bombed, or attacked in some way. Want the best example of this? Sarah Tintagyl, Her nation was nuked early on just because she had a alliance with Martens, which she didn't fight for, and she was forced to leave Europe.

Yet, I'm sure a lot of new players think Sarah has her own cronies

Its a vast underground conspiracy I tell you!

[Otto Verteidiger]

It's weird to see that I am said to be liked OOCly more than Chris. Why? Because I honestly didn't interact much OOC with anybody (even when I was active). So if you wanna argue OOC, then KingChris must have just made enemies with people OOC, not that I buddy'd up with people. And from what I know about KingChris OOC, I don't see how he could have made enemies.

I asked V The King (who I didn't get a reply from till it was too late) and Mudd if they would support me if I wanted to claim Texas. Mudd said of course. Why? He has a IC reason to, a very good one. Republic of War, Amerikanisches Reich had a HUGE history together. We stood against foreign aggression and Communism together. IC all the reasons for him supporting me where there. I hadn't talked to the guy for months before that, no OOC buddy there really. I thought V could cite the same reasons (hence why I asked him too, but I was pleasantly surprised )

Then comes the other supports, some I hadn't even talked to ever before. Some never before OOC. And most of my supporters came from old IC allies (Imperium of Man, Pravus, etc). But I don't really think it was OOC reasons, mostly where there IC feelings lie (this nation doesn't like xx nation supporting Texas, etc).

Meh.