Dispatch from ODN and GR

[Matthew Conrad]

I like how every ODN/semi-ODN related thread turns into a discussion of what happened a year ago regardless of the actual topic.

Congrats to GR and ODN on this treaty.

[Cataduanes]

I like how every ODN/semi-ODN related thread turns into a discussion of what happened a year ago regardless of the actual topic.

Because we are utter scum not worthy of any shred of respect or common courtesy

[Soccerbum]

Didn't you guys just sign a treaty?

edit: it's not on the wiki, but i could swear i just saw a re-signing of orple a while back. >_>

We have no treaty with The Legion.

Look at the leader of ODN now. Look at the Senate. I could have told you where they wanted to end up long before the Karma War flared up. You can continue to think ODN chose "the winning side" or you could look at the theme of where their FA was, was headed, and is still headed.

Great analysis, I must say.

Edited September 15, 2009 by soccerbum879

[Pocho]

Because we are utter scum not worthy of any shred of respect or common courtesy

aww hell nah

You're not taking the only image LUE has away from us >

Edited September 15, 2009 by Pocho

[Mayzie]

Congrat's GR on your upgraded treaty.

[Cataduanes]

aww hell nah

You're not taking the only image LUE has away from us >

I am sure the world has enough hate and vitriol for both LUE and ODN

[logan1]

Ask IRON about what happened in the Karma War and ask if they want a treaty with guys again.

i was fighting in Sparta for our allies during the Karma war so im not sure what was going on in ODN internally so forgive my ignorance if im wrong here but i do remember a treaty being dropped last minute by IRON and others at the very beginning of the war. thankfully IRON,MCXA and other NPO allies rescinded the treaty conclusion and saved some face as they decided to join their friends in the war.

this being said i have to wonder how NPO feels about all their allies that tried to exit the war last minute when their friends were facing such odds.

i am not tying to sling mud at any AA im just trying to show that some AAs may have some explaining to do if they ever wish to resign treaties for the same type of thing we are being accused of. here

[Penguin]

Thank you for the kind compliments. I will be sure to remember the bolded statement from now on.

I appreciate that, Soccerbum. Two years ago, I might have thought that sweeping these issues under the rug was a smart thing to do, but I don't feel that way now. There's no point in denying that there are still some hurt feelings over ODN left in Polar. It's not my job to decide whether they are warranted or even try to resolve them, but it is my job to present an accurate picture of Polaris to the world at large. In that respect, I have tried to present my personal opinions of ODN as nice people since last summer to balance things out, even though I have no opinion on ODN politically.

Let's make a deal: I'll acknowledge that HellScream probably doesn't represent ODN's majority opinion and focus on the other, friendlier faces in ODN if you can do the same for Polar?

That was uncalled for, if you have an issue with the comment then by all means rip into Penchuk (he is a big boy, i know he can take it) not Polaris

By all means do this. Any Polar rude enough to throw insults especially in a thread about our allies ought to be ripped apart for it. I kind of like that our members feel comfortable posting their opinions in public, it feels honest and genuine, that being said if they are rude please bite them back (verbally of course ).

Now, finally, I get to the part where I can express my personal opinion on this treaty. GR, I think you're very lucky. Time and again you have found steadfast allies in places Polar did not even think to look, allies that were more than happy to go to their deaths for you. I trust your judgment of character far more than stale grudges left over from last summer. ODN, you guys are fortunate to have found an ally like GR. I won't pretend to know you these days, I have not had any meaningful political interaction with you for over a year now, but any friend of GR is a friend of mine. I hope you get another chance to prove yourselves one day, and when you do you can be sure that I'll be in the front row taking notes. That's because I believe that nice people ought to have more chances to redeem themselves than wicked ones and despite any character flaws present last summer or any latent hurt feelings that might exist, I have always found ODNistas to be extremely nice people.

[RandomInterrupt]

Not as terrible as Polar, though.

While it was inappropriate for Polar members to mess up this announcement, at least they have a reason to have a grudge on the ODN (albeit one that is long past being relevant).

Your comment however is just annoying. I wont even bother explaining to you why your remark is stupid and shortsighted as I am sure your own leadership could do a fine job on their own. They understand that it was the ODN that bailed on Polar, not the other way around. They understand what happened in the past and have worked to move beyond that. It's people like you that make their job harder. So, unless your goal is to harm the image of your alliance, then I recommend leaving this topic alone.

edit: upstaged by a Penguin...

Edited September 15, 2009 by RandomInterrupt

[Penguin]

While it was inappropriate for Polar members to mess up this announcement, at least they have a reason to have a grudge on the ODN (albeit one that is long past being relevant).

Your comment however is just annoying. I wont even bother explaining to you why your remark is stupid and shortsighted as I am sure your own leadership could do a fine job on their own. They understand that it was the ODN that bailed on Polar, not the other way around. They understand what happened in the past and have worked to move beyond that. It's people like you that make their job harder. So, unless your goal is to harm the image of your alliance, then I recommend leaving this topic alone.

edit: upstaged by a Penguin...

Way to go spoiling my fancy deal, Random!

[General Scian]

GR are some great people and I hope this works out for the best for them.

ODN is an alliance trying to rebuild their image and where better to start?

I hope this treaty works out for the best, I really do.

[Soccerbum]

Classy as ever, Mr. Penguin sir.

[The AUT]

Look at the leader of ODN now. Look at the Senate. I could have told you where they wanted to end up long before the Karma War flared up. You can continue to think ODN chose "the winning side" or you could look at the theme of where their FA was, was headed, and is still headed.

Ha! Man if you just would read some of the logs between a conversation between myself and Arsenal. His intention was to play in the middle and not let his intentions be known then spring his trap. He tricked IRON and others on the Hegemony side into a false sense of security to trust ODN to be on that side. (In fact, I recall two long time ODN members who happened to be in government join IRON) To say ODN was going towards the side of Karma would be ignorant and only said after the fact. Especially considering their incident with VE.

But I have to hand it to Arsenal, he had me tricked.

Edited September 15, 2009 by The AUT

[Doitzel]

While it was inappropriate for Polar members to mess up this announcement, at least they have a reason to have a grudge on the ODN (albeit one that is long past being relevant).

You really ought not to bother even responding to it. That's what it wants. It's like Rebel Virginia except not funny or stylish in even the remotest sense. It also generally is not trying to make a point, just spew the quickest, most convenient acidic remark that it can produce regardless of truth.

[Hyperion321]

We have no treaty with The Legion.

Must have been thinking of the cancellation then.

[voodoochild]

At least NpO never turned their back to an ally(if I'm wrong please correct me) and since noCB war we already show that we changed. While ODN have a history of joining the winning side and not honor the treaties with the losing side. And while I see many of you guys saying that you changed I saw what happened in the last war with ODN choosing who treaties you were going to honor, don't believe me? Ask IRON about what happened in the Karma War and ask if they want a treaty with guys again. I'll wait till next war to see if ODN really changed, until there do not expect to see my opinions change because your past proves that I'm not lying, people do not calling you Optional Defense Network just for fun.

ODN joined GWIII on the losing side. And being in ODN before and during the Karma war, we very much thought Karma was going to lose. This was before IRON and everyone else ditched NPO, and didn't join until much later.

[Doitzel]

Ha! Man if you just would read some of the logs between a conversation between myself and Arsenal. His intention was to play in the middle and not let his intentions be known then spring his trap. He tricked IRON and others on the Hegemony side into a false sense of security to trust ODN to be on that side. (In fact, I recall two long time ODN members who happened to be in government join IRON) To say ODN was going towards the side of Karma would be ignorant and only said after the fact. Especially considering their incident with VE.

But I have to hand it to Arsenal, he had me tricked.

Well that's the thing. Anyone who actually talked to ODN's leadership in the months leading up to the Karma War knew their tendencies and which way they leaned. Rafael or at least Vanguard obviously did talk to ODN regularly and thus they were aware of the political currents there. IRON (or whoever) probably did not because communication is unnecessary to those types once they think their prey is securely in the treaty web. Thus they remained ignorant.

I really don't think it was any great scheme of ODN's as much as a complete failure on the part of IRON, GGA, et al.

[logan1]

ODN joined GWIII on the losing side. And being in ODN before and during the Karma war, we very much thought Karma was going to lose. This was before IRON and everyone else ditched NPO, and didn't join until much later.

and even with that bit of history in that link i provided in my last post i still see some of these AA as classy and will not hold the grudge that has been put on us.

[Rafael Nadal]

Ha! Man if you just would read some of the logs between a conversation between myself and Arsenal. His intention was to play in the middle and not let his intentions be known then spring his trap. He tricked IRON and others on the Hegemony side into a false sense of security to trust ODN to be on that side. (In fact, I recall two long time ODN members who happened to be in government join IRON) To say ODN was going towards the side of Karma would be ignorant and only said after the fact. Especially considering their incident with VE.

But I have to hand it to Arsenal, he had me tricked.

I've been in pretty regular contact with Arsenal ever since he introduced himself as Secretary of State. When he first introduced himself, I told him what he was getting into, even with alliances like mine, who held a treaty with ODN. I told him straight up that nobody in Vanguard cared about ODN's opinion, and that the only reason our treaty was still around was because we got sidetracked by canceling with TOP. I told him we started with a base of former LUE, and LUEnited for Orange isn't forgotten. I told him that ODN was a !@#$% $@! alliance politically. They're a top 8 power in CN, yet they conducted FA like a tentative hermit, afraid to do anything bold or try to carve out their own little niche. I had near constant contact with Arsenal, talking about shaping ODN's FA to be more assertive, and thus what they needed to achieve domestically to make that FA a reality.

I know that ODN in the past was closer to OV and Continuum. I know that ODN's gov't wasn't unanimously in support of going with Karma. But I do know where Arsenal, several other members of gov't, and where most of the Senate wanted to go. And I still have a pretty decent idea of what they want to do now, at least partially, as I'm not around quite as much as I was before.

And I've already stated what would have happened in the VE incident, I believe I was arguing with an IRON member about it (or possibly Heft, who was NSO by that time).

[D34th]

ODN joined GWIII on the losing side. And being in ODN before and during the Karma war, we very much thought Karma was going to lose. This was before IRON and everyone else ditched NPO, and didn't join until much later.

I remember GWIII, I was in CDS and remember how ODN DOW'ed GOONS with us then surrended alone and left CDS fighting alone. Very honorable...

See what ODN used to do even in losing side?

[Platinum]

Congratulations to our allies at ODN! Good luck to both parties

[Style #386]

I've been in pretty regular contact with Arsenal ever since he introduced himself as Secretary of State. When he first introduced himself, I told him what he was getting into, even with alliances like mine, who held a treaty with ODN. I told him straight up that nobody in Vanguard cared about ODN's opinion, and that the only reason our treaty was still around was because we got sidetracked by canceling with TOP. I told him we started with a base of former LUE, and LUEnited for Orange isn't forgotten. I told him that ODN was a !@#$% $@! alliance politically. They're a top 8 power in CN, yet they conducted FA like a tentative hermit, afraid to do anything bold or try to carve out their own little niche. I had near constant contact with Arsenal, talking about shaping ODN's FA to be more assertive, and thus what they needed to achieve domestically to make that FA a reality.

I know that ODN in the past was closer to OV and Continuum. I know that ODN's gov't wasn't unanimously in support of going with Karma. But I do know where Arsenal, several other members of gov't, and where most of the Senate wanted to go. And I still have a pretty decent idea of what they want to do now, at least partially, as I'm not around quite as much as I was before.

And I've already stated what would have happened in the VE incident, I believe I was arguing with an IRON member about it (or possibly Heft, who was NSO by that time).

Christ that seems like a long time ago.

Thank you to those ODNistas and allies which have remained civil and supported us. To the former, you do us proud, to the the latter, you will not be disappointed.

Shame on those, within the ODN and without, that would detract from a most positive announcement regarding the friendship between two fine alliances.

[Matthew Conrad]

I remember GWIII, I was in CDS and remember how ODN DOW'ed GOONS with us then surrended alone and left CDS fighting alone. Very honorable...

See what ODN used to do even in losing side?

Actually that's how most surrenders happen. A few notable exceptions (TPF and a few of their allies) do not make the rule.

[bill n ted]

Lines being drawn, acknowledged or both.

Congrats to you both

No offense was intended toward the Greenland Republic.

You seem to have forgotten ODN, somewhat speaks volumes. That said its not as though they have any relevance these days. ODN's just doing what ODN needs to do to save its pixels.

I dislike ODN too.

Should we start a club or is there already one started?

Edited September 15, 2009 by bill n ted

[Zombie Glaucon]

ps. Please ignore my dinosaur comrades who live in the past

Those of us from the Mesozoic are happy to wait and see how an alliance's actions bear out instead of judging it on its press releases.