Warning

[Gn0xious Jr]

in every history there is opportunism. in most cases, opportunity is taken to better the group, or prevent future disaster. NPO's history had set a precedence that if you disagree with NPO's view, you become a threat to the NPO. When you become a threat to the NPO, you are beaten until your views change, or you disband. i would not find it terrible that an alliance took the opportunity to neutralize a threat, a proven threat, over the past few years.

regardless, i think both Karma and the NPO have learned from this.

If NPO rises to the top again, and then seeks revenge, that's their discretion. There will be those for and against the move, just like this last time against OV, and it will be an interesting development indeed

OOC: Hell, even Darth Vader was opportunistic to help his son and defeat the Emperor. Had he not done so, chances are high that he, his son, and the Emperor would have been destroyed.

Emperor = NPO, Darth Vader = Karma, Luke = OV

edit: except Karma wasn't NPO's lackey and OV didn't grow up on a Desert Planet...

Edited September 10, 2009 by Gn0xious Jr

[Willaim Kreiger]

has anyone told you what a moron you are, there was no destroying NPO, and NPO will be underterms for a while

as someone who voted to keep his out of the karma war because i saw the karma war for what it was...a war of retribution against the victors of the UJW by those who had allied with GOONS....I really hope NPO rises up the ranks again because this time i will stand by her unlike i did in the past because karma did wrong against her, and speaking of which what is wrong with Color Sphere unity, Orange did it first, then BLEU then Purple(with Poseidon) and even Maroon which for a while was the Balkans of CN is Unified for the most part and now NPO wants to do it with red and someone has a problem with that

seriously Hail NPO and Hail Francoism, and this is someone who spent the first half of his CN Carrer going against the NPO, even getting booted from IRON when i became too much of a pest

NPO hardly had a hand in the Unjust War, I don't really see why it would have fueled the Karma War. You should probably take another look into the history of CN, or at least talk to people who have some idea of whats happening.

[Vizard]

To be frank, I'm astounded it took so long for a coalition such as Karma to form. The NPO were in control for so long that it just surprises me someone like the Wrath of Karma didn't pop up. Sure, they were fought but nothing on the scale of Karma. On the other hand, hail the NPO! They should be given a goddamn award for doing what they did for so long, that in itself warrants praise.

We've all heard the saying, 'With great power comes great responsibility'. Did the NPO have great power? Certainly. Did the NPO have great responsibility? Not quite.

[Bill Wallace]

...a whole lot of opportunity seeking alliances came together at the right moment to declare war and bring down the NPO which is disappointing in of its self

One definition of opportunity is: A possibility due to a favorable combination of circumstances.

By that definition, I don't see what's wrong with any alliance seeking any opportunity to change the political climate on Planet Bob to better their place in it. If any alliance fails to seek opportunities to become more relevant, they will not last. And those that do seek opportunities to exploit, but fail to seize that rare moment when it's in their grasp, suffer from weak leadership and are on their way to the dustbin of history.

And in response to the very last part of your statement, I'll tell you what will be disappointing. It will be disappointing if it takes a whole year for Planet Bob to erupt into world wide war again. Just my opinion. B)

[Palpatine001]

Looking through this thread entirely (dang that is an hour of my life I am not gonna get back fast) I have come to several conclusions

First being there is some serious festering for NPO blood of what ever description, sheesh talk about no forgiving and moving along with your life folks...

Second, these interwar years have really got the trolls going overtime, whether it is the late American summer or plain utter boredom, for every $ I would get seeing a troll I'd be more rich then Donald Trump!!!

Third, what is it with the Grammar Police - holy heck man the poor English language has been abused left right and centre from the lolfail-english and it is not coming from those who speak English as their second language... OOC If I had my way you Grammar Police would be sentenced to 4 years of Anthropology at university... /OOC

Fourth we got anything else to discuss?

I hear by rename this "Warning" thread to the "Cold War of the English" ...

[Geoffron X]

NPO hardly had a hand in the Unjust War, I don't really see why it would have fueled the Karma War. You should probably take another look into the history of CN, or at least talk to people who have some idea of whats happening.

It's actually a distressingly wide-spread belief that the Unjust War was the NPO's fault.

[Delta1212]

It's actually a distressingly wide-spread belief that the Unjust War was the NPO's fault.

Well it's apparently earning you supporters now, so maybe it's a good thing for you.

Edited September 10, 2009 by Delta1212

[Penkala]

I agree... the Order currently has around 300 less than when they started this war. That's a tad more than half way to 500, but still not close.

The Order had over 300 members on the Applicant AA, which dwindled to around 60 last time I checked it (1 month before the end of the war). Therefore they lost 250 members from the Applicant AA, and 325-350 from the normal AA, for a conservative net loss of 500.

Edit: it's been addressed and the refutation is 'prove it'. Ask any of Karma's representatives who visited the channel if you won't take my word for it. It was discussed often.

You probably weren't padding losses. I'm sure it was primarily intended to take advantage of any means available to you in a losing war. You can get righteously indignant over the lack of a photographic tally of the departing and joining NPO members, but it will take a long time before memories fade enough for those lines to work.

Hm.... let's see... what about that Polar announcement?

While Polar's opinion was respected and understood by many Karma members, again, this was not why peace was arranged.

Sethb of Ordo Verde was considered to be spying on the New Pacific Order, which was an aggressive action.

Actually he wasn't. He was considered to have accepted information. As was TORN/NPO. This could have been settled peacefully, but NPO proceeded with war. You're not going to win this one - I saw the talks, I know what was offered - an eye for an eye, we'd let Seth be ZIed if whomever on TORN's side accepted information was ZIed as well. This wasn't accepted.

All of this isn't even getting into the fact that there's a damn good chance Blackstone was actually an NPO-run operation.

I would argue that the war was one of Karma aggression from the start -- from ordering OV not to accept a peace deal when they were going to so that things could escalate to the cutting off of early peace talks when it looked like we would agree to terms, events were orchestrated to turn a minor incident into a major conflict. But I doubt that will gain much traction with the Karma loyalists here.

Nice try, but the spin doesn't work. If someone demanded xxx from you and you refused and they attacked, would you continue NPO to be the aggressors?

Edited September 11, 2009 by Penkala

[Ogaden]

It was the coalition of allies that NPO had that made it a world hegemon, and that coalition has been gone for a while now. I'd say at least a year in reality and about 4 months on paper.

By the time I was a member of NPO the alliance was a paper tiger. I can't really see NPO rising above the middle-power range for at least a year, and people still have a fair number of axes to grind and I wouldn't be all that surprized if they get bushwhacked once the terms expire.

[Ogaden]

I know what was offered - an eye for an eye, we'd let Seth be ZIed if whomever on TORN's side accepted information was ZIed as well. This wasn't accepted.

Always good to get another piece of the story.

What did TORN have against OV anyways?

Edited September 11, 2009 by James Dahl

[Penkala]

Always good to get another piece of the story.

What did TORN have against OV anyways?

I dunno, but they were in on the talks and rolled in the first wave, so....

as someone who voted to keep his out of the karma war because i saw the karma war for what it was...a war of retribution against the victors of the UJW by those who had allied with GOONS....

You got us. It was about the UJW. That's it, Janova, pack up the propaganda and head home. It's all been discovered.

[Cortath]

in every history there is opportunism. in most cases, opportunity is taken to better the group, or prevent future disaster. NPO's history had set a precedence that if you disagree with NPO's view, you become a threat to the NPO. When you become a threat to the NPO, you are beaten until your views change, or you disband. i would not find it terrible that an alliance took the opportunity to neutralize a threat, a proven threat, over the past few years.

regardless, i think both Karma and the NPO have learned from this.

If NPO rises to the top again, and then seeks revenge, that's their discretion. There will be those for and against the move, just like this last time against OV, and it will be an interesting development indeed

OOC: Hell, even Darth Vader was opportunistic to help his son and defeat the Emperor. Had he not done so, chances are high that he, his son, and the Emperor would have been destroyed.

Emperor = NPO, Darth Vader = Karma, Luke = OV

edit: except Karma wasn't NPO's lackey and OV didn't grow up on a Desert Planet...

That is the single stupidest metaphor for this war I have seen.

[Delta1212]

That is the single stupidest metaphor for this war I have seen.

Well to be fair (though it loses some effect without the Emperor avatar he was wearing at the time)

[TehChron]

It was the coalition of allies that NPO had that made it a world hegemon, and that coalition has been gone for a while now. I'd say at least a year in reality and about 4 months on paper.

By the time I was a member of NPO the alliance was a paper tiger. I can't really see NPO rising above the middle-power range for at least a year, and people still have a fair number of axes to grind and I wouldn't be all that surprized if they get bushwhacked once the terms expire.

You joined in January of 2009, and were an active...aggressive poster for the NPO during the Karma War, embarrassing your alliance with your spectacular success at igniting hatred for them.

Exactly what grounds do you base any preconceived notions of "experience" on this subject? Unless you merely re-rolled and joined them merely for the sake of trying to undermine them?

[Cortath]

Well to be fair (though it loses some effect without the Emperor avatar he was wearing at the time)

*chuckles* Fair point. It's not so much our role as Emperor that is the major flaw in the metaphor.

[Ogaden]

You joined in January of 2009, and were an active...aggressive poster for the NPO during the Karma War, embarrassing your alliance with your spectacular success at igniting hatred for them.

Exactly what grounds do you base any preconceived notions of "experience" on this subject? Unless you merely re-rolled and joined them merely for the sake of trying to undermine them?

Hehheh well to be honest I was more this guy:

Some arguments are simply unwinnable, but I delved in anyways. There's a reason why NPO goes on radio silence all the time, and it's not because membership is any more rude than any other alliance membership.

[HeinousOne]

Hehheh well to be honest I was more this guy:

Some arguments are simply unwinnable, but I delved in anyways. There's a reason why NPO goes on radio silence all the time, and it's not because membership is any more rude than any other alliance membership.

After counting up the arrows, I do believe I had you beat.

[Dr hairy Ballz]

I am LUKE FREAKING SKYWALKER!

[Lord of Destruction]

After counting up the arrows, I do believe I had you beat.

Except you received those from NPO members, not random Bobians.

Edited September 11, 2009 by Lord of Destruction

[HeinousOne]

Except your received those from NPO members, not random Bobians.

I would like to think my scars come from both. It's just the scars you speak of are the ones that stand out the most still.

[Ogaden]

I don't consider myself scarred from being in NPO, but that said being in NPO is sort of like ancient Rome. Bread and circuses and make-work for the plebians, and the occasional victorious war against the "barbarians" to stir up patriotic sentiment, just in time to employ those same barbarians as feoderatii. And just like ancient Rome those feoderatii ended up burning the whole place down.

[Delta1212]

After counting up the arrows, I do believe I had you beat.

You were worse, though. Similar, but worse.

[HeinousOne]

You were worse, though. Similar, but worse.

Perhaps, but I think that was more intentional on my part as well. Then again, I liked to focus on you where as Dahl's choice in alliance now kind of shows he never did. You Might have a fair bit of bias in this one Delta.

[Bob Janova]

I thought you were worse too

[Ogaden]

I always figured my problem wasn't so much that I was combative but rather that the best way to handle an issue was simply not discussing it, since the facts were never in my favor.

I figure my months in NPO taught me what being a Republican must be like.