Un4Gvn1 Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 You can't do stupid things and then claim it's alright because we're in a "Karma World." There is nothing stupid about the proposition of duking it out - mano y mano - PC and TPF and just get it done and over with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeinousOne Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 While it was BigWoody who messed up by taking Archon's words incorrectly, Archon didn't attempt to word it in such a way as to get TORN to think NPO was going to backstab TORN. BW just flipped out for no reason, and didn't check Moo's query to him. If he had, this war may have been over much, much sooner.Other than that, I agree, and that's what happened. Yes, I do not mean to demean Archon but BigWoody's temperment is no secret. He had to have some kind of inkling as to how Woody would respond. I personally find it a masterful move and have always saluted it as such. Just sad to see it continuously downgraded. Oh well, atleast someone else is now saying what really happened because they want the truth to be said rather then just what is convenient to say at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Conrad Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 What, are those alliances going to shrivel and die without that tech and money right away? If PC wants to earn alot more reps then the others then let them actually earn it by fighting TPF alone.I like this idea. Let the two beat all the antagonism out of each other until its done and over and without any outside help. It's what I would expect from responsible allies that I have seen MK, GR, and those others to be. Unless PC demands completely unreasonable terms like disbandment, I don't see why their wartime allies would let TPF receive aid from "third parties." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Un4Gvn1 Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 We entered the war together and shall leave it together, we may not hold a treaty with PC but we have shed blood alongside them in this war and will not leave them behind. My proposition is not one that involves anyone else. It is between PC and TPF. They are big boys and can handle warring without asking allies to help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Destruction Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Seriously, you need to either say what they offered you that is different then what is shown here or stop saying otherwise. The TPF tease is getting old. It was done in regards to what Torn did and now you are doing it again.So since you fought together you should receive the same reps right? The point, however, that desperado brought up about the 9k tech never being received by TPF is interesting though. If the reasoning behind wanting 9k tech is because that's what was taken in the past, and it was in fact never taken, then the reason doesn't exist and there must be some other motive behind the 9k tech for it to remain. To be honest, I think if PC would just lower the reps they're requesting, this thing would be over. They don't need the 20k tech because they were damaged badly by TPF - they want it because they want to damage TPF more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeinousOne Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 It's what I would expect from responsible allies that I have seen MK, GR, and those others to be. Unless PC demands completely unreasonable terms like disbandment, I don't see why their wartime allies would let TPF receive aid from "third parties." Uh, I said NO outside aid. As in if anyone did such those that had fought alongside PC would then attack the nation aiding TPF. TPF is decimated, PC can probably still handle them alone at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astronaut jones Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 My proposition is not one that involves anyone else. It is between PC and TPF.They are big boys and can handle warring without asking allies to help. I don't think you even bothered to read his comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hizzy Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 I like the TPF vs PC suggestion. If there ever was a grudge match... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Conrad Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 My proposition is not one that involves anyone else. It is between PC and TPF.They are big boys and can handle warring without asking allies to help. I would imagine it's a matter a principle and not any fear that PC couldn't handle it by themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathias Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 There is nothing stupid about the proposition of duking it out - mano y mano - PC and TPF and just get it done and over with. But saying that it's ok to receive aid from other alliances while you do so is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Destruction Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Uh, I said NO outside aid. As in if anyone did such those that had fought alongside PC would then attack the nation aiding TPF. TPF is decimated, PC can probably still handle them alone at this point. They're too busy tech-raiding to do so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Conrad Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Uh, I said NO outside aid. As in if anyone did such those that had fought alongside PC would then attack the nation aiding TPF. TPF is decimated, PC can probably still handle them alone at this point. Sorry, I misread the word alliance as nations (it's getting late). I thought you were referring to PC's nations. Without the allowance of aid, I do think a one on one would be interesting given that PC is interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desperado Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 (edited) Seriously, you need to either say what they offered you that is different then what is shown here or stop saying otherwise. The TPF tease is getting old. It was done in regards to what Torn did and now you are doing it again. There are multiple wording changes. Article 3 is completely changed. Below article 3 was never even offered although I can already assume there were changes made that wouldn't have been told to TPF. Oh, and there were various points that couldn't get a straight answer... Some were never even responded to and others were brushed under the table amidst a group of glorified finger pointing and lies. Edited July 25, 2009 by Desperado Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Un4Gvn1 Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 I don't think you even bothered to read his comment. I read his comment and understood it fully. Part of the stagnation that came about the past 2 years or so was caused by so many treaties ... two alliances couldn't get it on because they were each tied to so many others that would 'have' to enter the conflict. I am suggesting a conflict between 2 alliances. 2 alliances only. Heinous One suggested the other alliances that need reps from TPF could wait a bit longer for them ... that might work if they'd agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeinousOne Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 I like the TPF vs PC suggestion. If there ever was a grudge match... Seriously, everyone is bored anyways. We could become bookies for the ultimate grudge match Hizz. I would imagine it's a matter a principle and not any fear that PC couldn't handle it by themselves. Principle be damned. PC is asking for that much because they want to spite TPF and I realize the others fighting TPF are not going to be willing to state that it is annoying them that PC would do such but come on.....its annoying them. We saw the same thing happen in the discussions about the terms to offer to NPO. Time to let the antagonizers stand behind their words. Let PC earn over double the reps that MK would receive. Let them fight a decimated TPF alone. They will still win but atleast they will be damaged alittle more so that the amount they are asking for is warranted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crimson King Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 It was clearly the straw that broke the camel's back as he referred to "THIS" (this announcement) as being the reason he was leaving and referred to the immaturity in the Cyberverse over the past year. The problem is, it is easier to live with immaturity when you and your alliance benefit from it.I agree with him on many things, such as the immaturity and stupidity that is now rampant in the Cyberverse. But at the end of the day, his alliance and her allies did much to create this world of stupidity and vindictiveness and now they are on the receiving end it dawns on some how ridiculous things have become. Ignoring the fact that compared to terms given in the past, these terms are not especially harsh. Why do you keep bringing this back to terms? If you agree with him on "the stupidity and immaturity that is rampant" (which was his entire point for leaving the game) then the three of us should have a beer sometime cause we all got something in common. What most have been trying to tell you is that you should spend time getting to know the man before publicly calling him out for your pre-determined reasons for his leaving the game. What your personal feelings are toward TPF, "the Hegemony" or anything else have very little to do with the responses you are getting to your posts, yet you keep playing that card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirMe Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Terms are pretty good. PC should get off its $@! and not request so much tech. What makes them think they deserve that much tech? Let PC and TPF go at it..........that would be fun to watch. fakeedit: deathcat is a pretty cool cat....you shouldn't lump him in with the slayers of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaghul Posted July 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 First off, the terms were only presented to article III. Second, these are completely different than what was offered. We changed it and presented it to Mhawk last night and were met by various insults and attacks. For reference, it was already pointed out to you that 9k was never recieved and we let that go. And we all know not paying reps is a valid CB... Mhawk briefly mentioned it, with no details or evidence. Regardless we would be within our rights to want some reps on top of it, so that's not a major point. We're not opposed to the concept of reps, even if we often don't impose them. That particular number to MK, and the firmness of our resolve on the matter, comes from the noCB war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Why do you keep bringing this back to terms? If you agree with him on "the stupidity and immaturity that is rampant" (which was his entire point for leaving the game) then the three of us should have a beer sometime cause we all got something in common. I only refer to the terms because he said that is what made him quit. The first line of his original post. I'm pretty sure a lot of people think the Cyberverse has been on a downward spiral for some time but such stupidity only remains when those in power desire it to remain. What most have been trying to tell you is that you should spend time getting to know the man before publicly calling him out for your pre-determined reasons for his leaving the game. What your personal feelings are toward TPF, "the Hegemony" or anything else have very little to do with the responses you are getting to your posts, yet you keep playing that card. Except that he cited the terms as the reason or an example of the reason which led him to decide to leave the Cyberverse. I have no personal issues with deathcat, I just found the timing and tone of his post to be a little off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Un4Gvn1 Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 I only refer to the terms because he said that is what made him quit. The first line of his original post.I'm pretty sure a lot of people think the Cyberverse has been on a downward spiral for some time but such stupidity only remains when those in power desire it to remain. Except that he cited the terms as the reason or an example of the reason which led him to decide to leave the Cyberverse. I have no personal issues with deathcat, I just found the timing and tone of his post to be a little off. I can't speak for DeathCat but I don't think he was referring to the terms in the OP. He was referring to the lack of quality of many posts on the first several pages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaghul Posted July 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Regarding the TPF vs. PC idea, we may not have a treaty with PC but we are bound by this mutual conflict. Leaving them out to keep fighting alone wouldn't be fair or honorable, and it wouldn't be favorable to anyone. PC wants peace as well, I've talked with them a lot as part of putting these terms together. TPF wouldn't be in any better a position, they'd still be stuck where they are now and unable to pay anything. Anyone saying that PC hasn't "earned" the reps hasn't paid attention to PC's losses in this war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeinousOne Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Sorry, I misread the word alliance as nations (it's getting late). I thought you were referring to PC's nations. Without the allowance of aid, I do think a one on one would be interesting given that PC is interested. Who cares if PC is interested? At this point they are off tech raiding and waiting for the combined efforts of those fighting TPF to earn them an oversized amount of tech compared to the damage they have taken. Seriously, why would it matter if PC wanted it? OF COURSE THEY DONT WANT IT. They have nothing to gain from it. My question though is what do the other alliances have to gain from PC holding up the process with their oversized amount of tech requested? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathcat Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 I like the TPF vs PC suggestion. If there ever was a grudge match... I say we settle this with a cookoff... ME vs PC (G.A.) can make a comeback as a proxy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaBuc Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 I only refer to the terms because he said that is what made him quit. The first line of his original post.I'm pretty sure a lot of people think the Cyberverse has been on a downward spiral for some time but such stupidity only remains when those in power desire it to remain. Except that he cited the terms as the reason or an example of the reason which led him to decide to leave the Cyberverse. I have no personal issues with deathcat, I just found the timing and tone of his post to be a little off. I'm 99% sure Deathcat was already planning to quit. I think by "this" he meant the general mentality. -Bama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirMe Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Regarding the TPF vs. PC idea, we may not have a treaty with PC but we are bound by this mutual conflict. Leaving them out to keep fighting alone wouldn't be fair or honorable, and it wouldn't be favorable to anyone. PC wants peace as well, I've talked with them a lot as part of putting these terms together. TPF wouldn't be in any better a position, they'd still be stuck where they are now and unable to pay anything.Anyone saying that PC hasn't "earned" the reps hasn't paid attention to PC's losses in this war. If PC had so much damage they shouldn't have tech raided California when they knew damn well TPF couldn't defend them. For that stunt alone they shouldn't receive any reps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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