The GMs Court

[Kevin Kingswell]

[quote name='Emperor Mudd' date='20 June 2010 - 07:10 PM' timestamp='1277079014' post='2344296']
First off, the Taliban doesn't have a government in exile. I do. Second, both the Taliban and myself have a friendly populace right across the border. Sargun's Tahoe and Pakistan both serve the same purpose.

Hunting for an insurgency is great but the lovely thing about spy attacks is they are an in game mechanic. He can hunt all he want but the attacks won't stop.
[/quote]

I have yet to see you post even a single convoy from this friendly nation across the border. As for your government in exile that means nothing to almost everyone apart from the small insurgents numbers you have.

As for your spy attacks, I personally feel they shouldn't count but that isn't the issue here. Its good have IG stats well done but you need the RP to back it up and if by RP your insurgents are destroyed then tough luck.

[DeSchaine]

OOC: Insurgents are hard to stop fully. We've been in Afghanistan for almost ten years and still haven't finished that. It stands to common sense that former Tahoe citizens in the new tahoe would be sypathetic and helpfull. At the risk of offending Mudd, look at the situation in North Ireland. The IRA has been doing things for how long? And they've been getting help from across the border for decades. Yes there is peace now, but that's not because they were wiped out.

[Shadowsage]

Which means the mechanic is broken and needs to be fixed. I ask the GMs to take a look at this mechanic and request that RP considerations be thought of as a part of spy attacks; namely the results must be supported by the RP. And Mudd, I'll question whatever I please. Until you RP WHERE your support is coming from, and show me WHERE your caches were placed, and even tell me HOW they're being watered and fed; I'm assuming your insurgents are starving and incapable of launching attacks, not to mention declining precipitously in number.

Also; to the GMs: I'm asking that Spy attacks be looked at; since it seems like Mudd and an ever growing population are aware that the spy mechanic as it stands between CN and CN[b]RP[/b] is seriously broken; I haven't once seen a nation shut down an entire power grid, much less petroleum production and other decentralized entities. This is a borked method of attack and one we have to refine. I remember that Uberstein was immune to spy attacks on his computers due to RP and that feeling has died; even though everyone else acknowledged it as proper.

I ask for a revival of emphasis on RP as opposed to simply playing the mechanics of this community so one doesn't have to take responsibility for their actions.

And last of all, Botha never planned any of this with me. He's broken his Botha mode with supporting an insurgency.

[Kevin Kingswell]

I was wondering does Mudd have Shadow's permission to RP this insurgency in Shadow's territory? Because the following states:

If you want to claim an area already claimed, you must work something out with the current owner. This means you cannot start a rebellion in their territory, a terrorist group, etc. without their permission.

So as Mudd lost the land and it is now Shadow's Mudd would need Shadow's permission for any of this to happen in the first place. Of course if he has Shadow's permission then this all means nothing.

Edited June 21, 2010 by Kevin Kingswell

[Shadowsage]

He didn't have my permission, and I didn't see that rule actually.

[Sargun II]

That rule only applies to claiming land. Mudd is not claiming the land - in fact, it's the other way around. As Lynneth performed an illegitimate wipe and Mudd was not inactive 25 days, there is no conflict with the rules there.

FURTHERMORE, Shadowsage does not have the SoI to even have claimed Baja California in the first place. As Lynneth performed a wipe, there was no war gaining nor was there an IC gifting. That means that it was white land at the time when Shadowsage annexed it, and you can only annex white land that's within your SoI. He doesn't have the SoI to cover it all - I compared his diameter to the distance between the tip of South America and Baja California and it was close to seven thousand miles, and Shadow's SoI is less. Further, he owns land even further down south in Antarctica which would make it even more impossible.

So as far as anyone should truly be concerned, Shadowsage does not have a legit claim to the land in the first place.

[Executive Minister]

Why is anyone demanding Mudd post anything to do with logistics? Logistics are almost never touched upon in wars, and I doubt a lot of the coalition that took out Mudd in the first place did too.

[Sargun II]

[quote name='Executive Minister' date='20 June 2010 - 09:13 PM' timestamp='1277086363' post='2344454']
Why is anyone demanding Mudd post anything to do with logistics? Logistics are almost never touched upon in wars, and I doubt a lot of the coalition that took out Mudd in the first place did too.
[/quote]

Because it's convenient when your opponent has to do it and you don't.

[Kevin Kingswell]

[quote name='Sargun' date='20 June 2010 - 09:07 PM' timestamp='1277086039' post='2344448']
That rule only applies to claiming land. Mudd is not claiming the land - in fact, it's the other way around. As Lynneth performed an illegitimate wipe and Mudd was not inactive 25 days, there is no conflict with the rules there.

FURTHERMORE, Shadowsage does not have the SoI to even have claimed Baja California in the first place. As Lynneth performed a wipe, there was no war gaining nor was there an IC gifting. That means that it was white land at the time when Shadowsage annexed it, and you can only annex white land that's within your SoI. He doesn't have the SoI to cover it all - I compared his diameter to the distance between the tip of South America and Baja California and it was close to seven thousand miles, and Shadow's SoI is less. Further, he owns land even further down south in Antarctica which would make it even more impossible.

So as far as anyone should truly be concerned, Shadowsage does not have a legit claim to the land in the first place.
[/quote]

That depends if he claims Baja California as a protectorate which does not have to be within your SoI as I understand it. So if Shadows claims Baja California as a protectorate then Mudd still needs permission for his insurgency.

[Shadowsage]

[quote name='Sargun' date='20 June 2010 - 07:07 PM' timestamp='1277086039' post='2344448']
That rule only applies to claiming land. Mudd is not claiming the land - in fact, it's the other way around. As Lynneth performed an illegitimate wipe and Mudd was not inactive 25 days, there is no conflict with the rules there.

FURTHERMORE, Shadowsage does not have the SoI to even have claimed Baja California in the first place. As Lynneth performed a wipe, there was no war gaining nor was there an IC gifting. That means that it was white land at the time when Shadowsage annexed it, and you can only annex white land that's within your SoI. He doesn't have the SoI to cover it all - I compared his diameter to the distance between the tip of South America and Baja California and it was close to seven thousand miles, and Shadow's SoI is less. Further, he owns land even further down south in Antarctica which would make it even more impossible.

So as far as anyone should truly be concerned, Shadowsage does not have a legit claim to the land in the first place.
[/quote]
War was begun. He was inactive. The land was conquered and annexed BEFORE he went inactive, so I have it as legitimate territory. Even MORE so, my land is centered in Panama, and the other land was GIFTED to me, as it says in the rules. Maybe you should read them fully instead of trying to legitimize your argument with tidbits set only to score you brownie points with Mudd.

[SpacingOutMan]

Or you can all stop being so damn whiny and actually RP something that, ya know, is something you didn't expect. Oh boohoo, an insurgency. God !@#$@#$ forbid. Jesus, grow up.

EDIT: See below post; , etc etc. Apologies all around, etc. etc.

Edited June 21, 2010 by SpacingOutMan

[Executive Minister]

[quote name='Sargun' date='20 June 2010 - 10:15 PM' timestamp='1277086506' post='2344455']
Because it's convenient when your opponent has to do it and you don't.
[/quote]

Its frightening. I find myself agreeing with you. The world as we know it has come to an end.

[SpacingOutMan]

[quote name='Shadowsage' date='20 June 2010 - 10:18 PM' timestamp='1277086712' post='2344460']
War was begun. He was inactive. The land was conquered and annexed BEFORE he went inactive, so I have it as legitimate territory. Even MORE so, my land is centered in Panama, and the other land was GIFTED to me, as it says in the rules. Maybe you should read them fully instead of trying to legitimize your argument with tidbits set only to score you brownie points with Mudd.
[/quote]

Um, rules say there is [b]no gifting of land of any kind[/b].

[Kevin Kingswell]

[quote name='SpacingOutMan' date='20 June 2010 - 09:20 PM' timestamp='1277086841' post='2344464']
Um, rules say there is [b]no gifting of land of any kind[/b].
[/quote]

2) Being given land through an RP, in an IC manner. [OOC Gifting is FORBIDDEN]

OOC gifting is not allowed, IC gifting within an RP is accepted. Try reading the rules next time.

[Shadowsage]

[quote name='SpacingOutMan' date='20 June 2010 - 07:20 PM' timestamp='1277086803' post='2344462']
Or you can all stop being whiny !@#$%*es and actually RP something that, ya know, is something you didn't expect. Oh boohoo, an insurgency. God !@#$@#$ forbid. Jesus, grow the $%&@ up you $%&@s.
[/quote]
Reported.

[SpacingOutMan]

[quote name='Shadowsage' date='20 June 2010 - 10:27 PM' timestamp='1277087240' post='2344471']
Reported.
[/quote]

Thank you for announcing it to the world. We all totally care. My point is that you are acting like a petulant child because you can't have it your way. You really want to have it your way? Go to Burger King. Did I go overboard? Yes I did, and I do apologize for that, but seriously, grow up.

[Fizzydog]

[quote name='Shadowsage' date='20 June 2010 - 09:27 PM' timestamp='1277087240' post='2344471']
Reported.
[/quote]
Someone is getting fiesty, eh?

[SpacingOutMan]

[quote name='Kevin Kingswell' date='20 June 2010 - 10:23 PM' timestamp='1277086991' post='2344467']
2) Being given land through an RP, in an IC manner. [OOC Gifting is FORBIDDEN]

OOC gifting is not allowed, IC gifting within an RP is accepted. Try reading the rules next time.
[/quote]

Pretty sure you still have to be within your SOI.

[KaiserMelech Mikhail]

[quote name='SpacingOutMan' date='20 June 2010 - 09:32 PM' timestamp='1277087533' post='2344478']
Pretty sure you still have to be within your SOI.
[/quote]
No you don't. I have my antarctic island because I did an RP with a person. When he left, I got to keep it.

[Kevin Kingswell]

[quote name='SpacingOutMan' date='20 June 2010 - 09:32 PM' timestamp='1277087533' post='2344478']
Pretty sure you still have to be within your SOI.
[/quote]

Nope thats just for your intial claim according to the guidelines.

[Fizzydog]

I want to ask: how does the SOI work?


Does it mena the maximum land you can have is your IG maximum land? If so that is kind of a stupid rule.

[SpacingOutMan]

[quote name='KaiserMelech Mikhail' date='20 June 2010 - 10:36 PM' timestamp='1277087796' post='2344484']
No you don't. I have my antarctic island because I did an RP with a person. When he left, I got to keep it.
[/quote]

Ah alright, I was told wrongly then. Haven't really checked out those guidelines since, well, I haven't had any land acquisitions in over a year.

[Justinian the Mighty]

[quote name='Fizzydog' date='20 June 2010 - 10:38 PM' timestamp='1277087907' post='2344491']
I want to ask: how does the SOI work?


Does it mena the maximum land you can have is your IG maximum land? If so that is kind of a stupid rule.
[/quote]

SOI only has an effect on the your initial land claims, but every so often someone tries to say it serves a purpose after that when it really doesn’t.

[Sargun II]

I've already detailed that SoI also applies to any land that you take that was white land.

Baja California was not claimed and annexed in the war, Shadowsage, as you placed claim to it only after Mudd was wiped. Thank Lynneth for that. It doesn't matter where your SoI is centered but whether it can fully cover your entire territory.

Edited June 21, 2010 by Sargun

[Manetheren]

Dear dear, looks like I'm stirring up quite the hornets nest. That tends to happen when your cozy perfectly peaceful empire is challenged by something new. Nobody has ever RP'd an insurgency in any serious form before. This is all new. It is totally legitimate using 1) logical and common sense RP and 2) An in game mechanic commonly used and accepted in CNRP.

Ya ya boo boo.