Vladimir Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 (edited) Of course - you're absolutely right Vladimir - how dare I ever disagree with you and your unchallengeable opinions and how dare anyone use actual math and proven facts to prove your and Cortath's propaganda to be wrong. We'll just sit back and wait for you to spin this war into a victory for the NPO and how Karma started it....[/sarcasm] Sarcasm doesn't work if you don't aim it at anything. My entire post was relaying to you the fact that people had different opinions on things, so in fact your sarcasm is in agreement with me. Our numbers have not been proven wrong, and every critique has had extensive responses (hence the aforementioned signatures filled with links). Helpful debating tip #64: Don't claim that others are incapable of seeing different opinions right before you attack all different opinions as 'propaganda' and 'spin', especially if you are not offering any further rebuttal beyond that. If you are making fun of someone you have to first make sure that that someone is not you. snip That is just untrue, Enzos. You can check this chart for confirmation (though it is somewhat out of date, we have all lost much more since then). Our government members have been in this war as much as anyone. You may also have seen Comrade Emperor's thread celebrating being nuked for the 150th time. The reason our strongest nations are in peace mode is because those that were not in peace mode are no longer our strongest nations. That is to say, if we had 10 100k nations in war mode and 10 50k nations in peace mode, the 10 50k nations would be our strongest nations after a couple of weeks. On both of these points, as a high government member and a nation formerly of around 75k, now closer to 7.5k, I know from personal experience. And we have never postponed negotiations. From day one (in fact from before day one) we have harassed, pestered and pushed for Karma to meet us at the negotiation table. Edited July 9, 2009 by Vladimir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeinousOne Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 I don't believe the terms state they can't attack back. From what I've seen, they may counterattack. Of course, they'd take more damage so that's up to them. Also, to know NPO is to know that their Bank nations have been such for quite a long time. It is how they like to play the game. They like to build up and then help others. That is a personal player choice and thus an agreement is made between alliance leaders and nation leaders that such will be the case. To ask those alliance leaders to break that trust is what I feel is a purposeful attempt to break apart that bond within the NPO. That is why that term is so horrible in my opinion. As bad as the NPO has been, you people are acting no better as you too are trying to destroy an alliance. Yes, I do believe NPO tried to do such but to believe your own excuses that doing such to them is just retribution is only a lie that you have fed to yourselves in order to be able to fully follow that desire for vengeance. A surrender is a surrender. To see the amount of wars going on right now is to realize that this war is over. You seriously damaged them and now there really isnt that much you can do to them without insulting them into abiding by that one term. It is getting to be a very sad situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzos Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 continuing to fight will get you nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 continuing to fight will get you nowhere. Going nowhere is sometimes a good option, if you are surrounded by cliffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeinousOne Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Pacifican government are keeping us out of harms way, by refusing these terms which are a far worse outcome for all of us than continuing to fight. If they did accept these terms as written, and we've been constantly told the terms are not negotiable, then I suspect there would be a huge backlash from the BR and many people leaving in disgust. I'd be one of them. Only one member of our government, to my knowledge, isn't fighting and it is because he's a bank. Moo hasn't seen peace the entire war. I don't know where you got the idea our government aren't fighting. Believe me, they are, and hard. Just ask any of Mary's opponents . I dare anyone to say this is not the absolute truth. Look at yourselves and if your own government told you to do such after you had followed orders. I know I would definately tell our government where to stick it but I also have full confidence that they would never do such a thing and that we would continue to fight on until the enemy had had enough and gave up such a sadistic term. They are truly trying to break apart NPO with that term and despite my lack of love for you guys I wouldnt wish that upon you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waterana Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 (edited) continuing to fight will get you nowhere. Continuing to fight ensures our survival. Accepting those terms ensures our destruction, which is what they were written to do. What else can you do to us now? Chip away at our AS, the terms would dump it. Nuke ZIed nations just to kill their tech, about the only way you can chip away our AS. Watch your small nations get beat up and constantly send them aid, well that doesn't hurt us and gives us cash to steal so please don't stop. Slowly lose the PR war on these forums, yes, that is beginning now. When STA members come in here and say 'enough is enough', considering what the majority of them think of us, you must be doing something wrong. There is really nothing concrete you can do to hurt us as things stand now. So please explain to me why continuing the war won't get us anywhere? I dare anyone to say this is not the absolute truth. Look at yourselves and if your own government told you to do such after you had followed orders. I know I would definately tell our government where to stick it but I also have full confidence that they would never do such a thing and that we would continue to fight on until the enemy had had enough and gave up such a sadistic term.They are truly trying to break apart NPO with that term and despite my lack of love for you guys I wouldnt wish that upon you. Edit Edited: I can't read. Edited July 9, 2009 by Waterana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeinousOne Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Edit: You know, I'm getting a bit tired of being told our members are brainwashed drones who just do what we're told without question. That's crap and you know it. Negative feelings from the BR on these terms are very strong, and handing over our banks is the major (but not the only) reason for that. My post said 'I suspect' not 'we will' so it was spoken with a caution, but it isn't a lie. If our government did hand any of our members over to a blood thirsty mob to end this war (the terms are rejected, so it won't happen), I would be gone, and doubt I'd be the only one. Yep, either I completely failed to get across my point or you completely failed at reading comprehension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzos Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 not ever accepting terms ensures destruction. Terms may be harsh, but as long as people remain loyal to your alliance you will rebuilt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargun II Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Going nowhere is sometimes a good option, if you are surrounded by cliffs. No jetpack? What kind of man doesn't bring an emergency jetpack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waterana Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Yep, either I completely failed to get across my point or you completely failed at reading comprehension. Yes, I misread it. Am so sorry for that, will go edit that post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeinousOne Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 not ever accepting terms ensures destruction. Terms may be harsh, but as long as people remain loyal to your alliance you will rebuilt. Unwillingness to change one single term in your peace terms ensures you shall be at war for a long time, especially when your enemy has nearly fully gone into peacemode. You are not harming them anymore and considering Sparta has like Zero wars against NPO right now, that makes your threats of destruction upon them kind of amusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzos Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Unwillingness to change one single term in your peace terms ensures you shall be at war for a long time, especially when your enemy has nearly fully gone into peacemode. You are not harming them anymore and considering Sparta has like Zero wars against NPO right now, that makes your threats of destruction upon them kind of amusing. sparta hasn't asked for terms or reps. It's other karma alliances that have. What threats of destruction??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Sparta hasn't asked for reps for Sparta, Enzos; I wouldn't go further than that. Look at the posts of some of your negotiators and you will quickly see that they are not likely the moderates in negotiation discussions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeinousOne Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 not ever accepting terms ensures destruction. Terms may be harsh, but as long as people remain loyal to your alliance you will rebuilt. sparta hasn't asked for terms or reps. It's other karma alliances that have.What threats of destruction??? "Ensuring destruction" is definately a threat of destruction. The majority of damage that is capable of being delivered to NPO has already been done. At some point they will have everyone in peace mode and holding out due to one single rediculous term will cost the Coalition bargaining strength. On the upside we will get to see if NPO will is as strong as FAN's willpower. When I was in NPO I always had a begrudging respect for how FAN stuck it out. Guess we will see if NPO can do the same because they have indeed been isolated diplomatically so what do they care if they are in an eternal war where they stick it out in peacemode. A peacemode NPO can indeed rebuild faster then most alliances can in normal times. You people are asking for that which you fear, you really are. At first with all the propaganda calling NPO cowards for using Peace Mode I thought it was good for a laugh because of how NPO used to say that but I figured everyone understood it was just silly propaganda that had zero effect except maybe to strengthen FAN's resolve, that means it was not a good idea for those who need that explained further. Yet, we see it continuing and at this point seeing how NPO is standing firm, continuing such tactics comes off as Amateur Hour. Give up the silly side show tactics, the war is over. You let NPO in full peace mode or close to it and you lose negotiating power. Is this really that hard to comprehend for people or do they just like to tote the company line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waterana Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 (edited) sparta hasn't asked for terms or reps. It's other karma alliances that have.What threats of destruction??? Sorry, Sparta is one of our enemies, just like the others. You don't get to sit up on a pedestal just because you aren't taking reps. Sparta is fully involved in drawing up these terms, and attempting to push them on us such as you've been doing in this thread. We don't care if you get any money or not, makes no difference to us. You are one of them, always were, always will be. Edited July 9, 2009 by Waterana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King DrunkWino Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Sorry, Sparta is one of our enemies, just like the others. You don't get to sit up on a pedestal just because you aren't taking reps. Sparta is fully involved in drawing up these reps, and attempting to push them on us such as you've been doing in this thread. We don't care if you get any money or not, makes no difference to us. You are one of them, always were, always will be. Course it's those blatantly not-so-well veiled threats that don't do you any favors right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeinousOne Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 (edited) Course it's those blatantly not-so-well veiled threats that don't do you any favors right now. Be real, they weren't getting any favors anyway. They can hardly even post without getting harassed nonstop. Everyone else is making threats at them, I sure as hell would be tossing barbs right back. Everyone needs to get over the self-righteousness. That was so Pre-Karma war. They have already been brought low. You cannot expect them to act like a normal alliance if You do not treat them like a normal alliance. For a Jedi, you still have alot to learn. Edited July 9, 2009 by HeinousOne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waterana Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 (edited) Course it's those blatantly not-so-well veiled threats that don't do you any favors right now. That's not a threat for pete's sake. It says what it says. Sparta can't expect special treatment, or anyone thinking they're second only to Jesus, just because they're not accepting reps. Whoop de Doo on that. They are an enemy, same as the others. Have been from the start, will be for the future as we're still at war with them and all signs point to us staying that way indefinetly. Does that sound better? Edited July 9, 2009 by Waterana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King DrunkWino Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Be real, they weren't getting any favors anyway. They can hardly even post without getting harassed none stop. Everyone else is making threats at them, I sure as hell would be tossing barbs right back.Everyone needs to get over the self-righteousness. That was so Pre-Karma war. They have already been brought low. You cannot expect them to act like a normal alliance if You do not treat them like a normal alliance. For a Jedi, you still have alot to learn. Yes, when faced with a multitude seeking their perceived justice after what many feel near years of injustice, it's far better to give them further reasons to be hard lined in their resolve. I'd bow to your wisdom, but you do not show it here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 That's not a threat for pete's sake. It says what it says. Sparta can't expect special treatment, or anyone thinking they're second only to Jesus, just because they're not accepting reps. Whoop de Doo on that. They are an enemy, same as the others. Have been from the start, will be for the future as we're still at war with them and all signs point to us staying that way indefinetly. Does that sound better? You're not good at reading signs then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King DrunkWino Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 That's not a threat for pete's sake. It says what it says. Sparta can't expect special treatment, or anyone thinking they're second only to Jesus, just because they're not accepting reps. Whoop de Doo on that. They are an enemy, same as the others. Have been from the start, will be for the future as we're still at war with them and all signs point to us staying that way indefinetly. Does that sound better? Don't ask me. Ask the ones you're at war with who are going to take that as a threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeinousOne Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Yes, when faced with a multitude seeking their perceived justice after what many feel near years of injustice, it's far better to give them further reasons to be hard lined in their resolve. I'd bow to your wisdom, but you do not show it here. You give them further reasons with your responses. It didnt even make sense. It was just another attempt to try and quote a post that shows that NPO deserves the initial terms. You missed your mark. You are not even part of the war Mr. Jedi so save us your wise judgement on the matter. Some of us would like to simply see the world move on, perhaps because we actually see all that NPO has lost? All you see is NPO and you will forever see the same thing instead of seeing what they truly are at this point. They will always be hardlined in their resolve during war. They are the god damned NPO. You will not take that from them no matter how many times you insult them or ask them to apologize for every damned bloody thing that they did horribly in the past. I am not defending them, I am simply calling for everyone else to be realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzos Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Karma won, Hegemony lost. You ask why? Most alliances didn't want to be on hegemony's side, WHY? they destroyed alliances, acted liked a tyrant. Now Karma won and karma get´s the loots, Hegemony get´s to deal with the consequences. You didn't lose a battle but you lost the war. Deal with it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeinousOne Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 (edited) Karma won, Hegemony lost. You ask why? Most alliances didn't want to be on hegemony's side, WHY? they destroyed alliances, acted liked a tyrant. Now Karma won and karma get´s the loots, Hegemony get´s to deal with the consequences. You didn't lose a battle but you lost the war. Deal with it! Only problem is, your little simplistic version isn't working out according to plan. Kind of like how NPO's simple plan didnt work out against FAN did it? Saying the same things over and over wont make it true, sometimes plans have to change. Edited July 9, 2009 by HeinousOne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzos Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 sometimes there aren't any plans.. NPO was the first aggresor. All others just got dragged in by the treaty chain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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