Imperial Decree - New Polar Order

[Wilhelm the Demented]

Heh poor Spartans, Grub burned their house down and now they're scrambling in the streets trying to bury the post with their silly quips about grammar and drunken posting.

Silly Vol Navy, he takes our silly posts for much more than silly posts

[Seth Muscarella]

Heh poor Spartans, Grub burned their house down and now they're scrambling in the streets trying to bury the post with their silly quips about grammar and drunken posting.

52 pages and nothing has been resolved? i don't think there is anything more to talk about, honestly. the heat really hasn't been on us enough to merit any attention from us.

[Hyperion321]

Heh poor Spartans, Grub burned their house down and now they're scrambling in the streets trying to bury the post with their silly quips about grammar and drunken posting.

You can't really bury grub's post...it's on the first page. You just click it and poof, there it is.

But you know, everything Sparta does is an evil plot, even when we're just dicking around.

[Derka Derek]

Silly Vol Navy, he takes our silly posts for much more than silly posts

Silly Wilhelm, don't you understand that all of our posts are completely serious, you should know.

52 pages and nothing has been resolved? i don't think there is anything more to talk about, honestly. the heat really hasn't been on us enough to merit any attention from us.

Silly Sethly, much has been accomplished in this thread, you just don't see it.

[Wilhelm the Demented]

52 pages and nothing has been resolved? i don't think there is anything more to talk about, honestly. the heat really hasn't been on us enough to merit any attention from us.

Except for the silly posts.

This topic is just a bunch of back and forth, semantics at their finest.

[Waterana]

Actually I would prefer that you not disband. Take that how you will, it is the truth.

And speaking for myself, I would not have had a problem with Karma dropping the demand for an additional two weeks of warfare, were it not for the propaganda campaign that you've engaged in in place of negotiations. I was never a fan of that particular term. Thus, if you had shown any signs of contrition I would have said increase the reps and let them go. But the unbelievable amount of lies, slander and distortions that have been hurled against Karma have convinced me that reparations alone will not be enough.

Our government were repeatedly told the terms were non negotiable. What you call propaganda, we call truth and getting our feelings out in the open. From our side of the fence, especially us normal members who aren't privvy to any of the back room stuff, we can only comment on what we see. What we see is a number of alliances fighting us determined to destroy our alliance out of fear and vengeance.

You claim that isn't true, but we only have your word on that, and sorry, few Pacificans, if any, trust anything coming from the bit of Karma at war with us. We have had no reason to. It is actions not words that count, and so far actions by our slice of the Karma cake only point to wanting us dead and gone, with our without those terms. Yes our alliance has done some bad things in its past, and we acknowledge that, but anything the Emperor or IOs try to say on these boards is met with jeers and 'PR stunt'.

We gave up the Moldavi doctrine. To us, control of the red sphere was the cornerstone of our alliance. That doctrine was a large part of our identity and losing it ripped a small bit out of the heart of every NPO member. That sacrifice also was met largely with jeers, jibes, sneers, and the usual cries of 'it's just a PR campaign'. Are you beginning to understand yet why we aren't on this board in sackcloth and ashes begging for forgiveness?

Pacificans are constantly accused of being arrogant and too full of pride. I do have a lot of pride in my alliance, but that doesn't mean I don't think we do need to change and that I think everything we ever did was ok. The arrogance isn't all one way either. Plenty of those on the other side of the fence are displaying an incredible amount of it as well.

[crushtania]

Ending negotiations are never the sign of a benevolent and merciful coalition. Very unfortunate to see this.

[Solace19k]

Heh poor Spartans, Grub burned their house down and now they're scrambling in the streets trying to bury the post with their silly quips about grammar and drunken posting.

No I'm serious ... You have done such a great job at exposing the terrible side of my Alliance. Screw this , I'm a free agent now. Thanks to you kind sir. You have dun done a great deed and saved me of my beloved pixels....

[Vol Navy]

Unnecessary and unhelpful in what regard? The fact you don't agree does not diminish my position any more than it enhances yours. If there is so little interest in the topic under discussion why are there so many people prepared to comment for and against my assertions?

And so to paint Grub as evil, we find a post where I am being obviously flippant in response to a prank by NSO. Well done, I am totally discredited now and my argument and resulting debate will now disappear into the winds.

My actual position on NSO's little affair was quite clear, try actually reading the thread.

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...t&p=1663801

Having waded through the empty rhetoric of the ''former'' Karma members who assert varying positions in relation to the matter of Peace Terms, especially that of Sparta, a vigorous member of the Continuum, a fine upstanding moral organization who has never faced down an angry mob because they conveniently change sides when necessary, I am left a little bewildered to say the least.

My contempt for you only increases as you attempt to justify your position, blatantly standing in front of the world saying "so yeah about that Q stuff man, like we were never down with it yah know and we got out when we could'' coincidentally just in time to be on the white horse wearing a white hat this time... then you want to ''judge'' the NPO. And then you talk about me being on MY high horse. Seriously, is that what your assertion is here.

IF Mushroom Kingdom wants to judge the NPO, I have no issues, they have danced at the point of their sword their entire existence, but Sparta accusing me of righteous indignation from an unsustainable position... spare me the insult to my intelligence. You blatantly milked the Continuum for all it was worth, only publicly transferring your allegiance when the real position was extremely clear cut. Or don't you recall it quite like that? I am sure you don't but stop trying to embarrass me when you are standing completely nude in front of the world holding a piece of cardboard that you scribbled ''we are the good guys'' on moments before the first shots were fired. You had month sof stabbing your direct allies squarely between the ribs, your sign could have been signwritten by a professional with all that time up your sleeve.

You may well be essential in terms of numbers to the initial Karma front, I can see why they needed you, but for you to place yourselves into the position you now have is disgraceful... and you have the temerity and gall to insult me. I would drop that little nugget before moving too much further on with the judgment of my position.

This is the post I am referencing, not the OP.

I especially like the bolded parts.

[Hyperion321]

No I'm serious ... You have done such a great job at exposing the terrible side of my Alliance. Screw this , I'm a free agent now. Thanks to you kind sir. You have dun done a great deed and saved me of my beloved pixels....

You misspelled "done". Your point is invalid.

[TehChron]

Well honestly I for one , love the NPO. I find myself so torn as to what my future actions will be from now on as a matter of fact. I mean, isn't NSO recruiting or something? Maybe I can go there. Here's my resume:

Normally such an in-depth knowledge of this television series would make you a shoo-in, however, due to the lack of a spoiler disclaimer beforehand, we can not accept your application.

Sooo....What does the NSO have to do with the NPO? And isnt the point of the thread discussing Karma?

Because I thought were discussing karma. Yeah, filthy hypocrites.

[heggo]

Good God Sparta, I'm practically beginning to feel embarrassed for you.

[Hyperion321]

Good God Sparta, I'm practically beginning to feel embarrassed for you.

Don't hate the player. Hate Solace.

[Authur]

Actually I would prefer that you not disband. Take that how you will, it is the truth.

And speaking for myself, I would not have had a problem with Karma dropping the demand for an additional two weeks of warfare, were it not for the propaganda campaign that you've engaged in in place of negotiations. I was never a fan of that particular term. Thus, if you had shown any signs of contrition I would have said increase the reps and let them go. But the unbelievable amount of lies, slander and distortions that have been hurled against Karma have convinced me that reparations alone will not be enough.

One of the things that puzzles me is that contrition is demanded from Pacifica. Why must it factor into their peace terms in such a dramatic way? They have lost, clearly and definitively been defeated. While it would be nice to see them change that should not be forced upon them. Forcing someone to change with a sword to their throat rarely works and many of the alliances who engaged the NPO in battle know this better then most. Forcing hollow admissions of guilt. Attempts at altering the ideology of alliances to suit personal agendas. Those are practices the NPO has been condemned for in the past. Don't travel down that same path. Once this war has ended they will go through a personal reflection period and if they decide not to change and be politicaaly isolated that is their choice. Their punishment should not be increased due to it.

Edited July 7, 2009 by Authur

[Vol Navy]

Good God Sparta, I'm practically beginning to feel embarrassed for you.

I'm sure it was entirely coincidental that Grub made his post and Spartans showed up enmasse with a bunch of silly/spammy type posts in a row.

I'm certain they weren't trying to bury it or anything. They certainly didn't quote it and refute a single line of it. Just called me out about grammar and such for actually taking note that Grub laid out some pretty damning words about them being side switching, back stabbers etc.

[Matthew Conrad]

I'm sure it was entirely coincidental that Grub made his post and Spartans showed up enmasse with a bunch of silly/spammy type posts in a row.

I'm certain they weren't trying to bury it or anything. They certainly didn't quote it and refute a single line of it. Just called me out about grammar and such for actually taking note that Grub laid out some pretty damning words about them being side switching, back stabbers etc.

You're right, showing up on the 54th page is the only fashionable and reasonable way to go. We must have really felt threatened if we chose to post this late in the thread.

[George the Great]

Unnecessary and unhelpful in what regard? The fact you don't agree does not diminish my position any more than it enhances yours. If there is so little interest in the topic under discussion why are there so many people prepared to comment for and against my assertions?

And so to paint Grub as evil, we find a post where I am being obviously flippant in response to a prank by NSO. Well done, I am totally discredited now and my argument and resulting debate will now disappear into the winds.

My actual position on NSO's little affair was quite clear, try actually reading the thread.

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...t&p=1663801

Having waded through the empty rhetoric of the ''former'' Karma members who assert varying positions in relation to the matter of Peace Terms, especially that of Sparta, a vigorous member of the Continuum, a fine upstanding moral organization who has never faced down an angry mob because they conveniently change sides when necessary, I am left a little bewildered to say the least.

My contempt for you only increases as you attempt to justify your position, blatantly standing in front of the world saying "so yeah about that Q stuff man, like we were never down with it yah know and we got out when we could'' coincidentally just in time to be on the white horse wearing a white hat this time... then you want to ''judge'' the NPO. And then you talk about me being on MY high horse. Seriously, is that what your assertion is here.

All I have to say, again, is that you cleary have no idea what you're talking about. Either that, or you're completely ignoring anything that impedes your path to the podium of morality on the stage of Bob. I hope that it's just ignorance, honestly, but I have a feeling that it's a selective memory. That's fine if you want to claim that what we're saying is empty rhetoric. To most of you it probably is, we haven't had a chance yet to act on our rhetoric in a satisfactory manner for you, yet. The fact of the matter is, though, that you have absolutely no proof whether or not it is empty rhetoric or not. Much like none of us know whether what you said in the OP is empty rhetoric or not. The OP is a wall of words backed up by inaction. You claim the neutrals contribute nothing to this game and that apparently makes them fair game to be picked on by your allies. However, NpO has contributed nothing to this game since right before the NoCB war, but reap the benefits of doing nothing but playing SimCity, as such, you deserve nothing but to be ignored. I don't see how the neutrals, who also pride themselves on inaction, are allowed to ridiculed and criticized aggressively, but you somehow have an Admin given right to sit on the very same sidelines and paint a pretty picture of polar bears on melting ice-caps and tell us that is your official position. You have no more right to spew your "rhetoric" on here and claim that it's true than any other alliance that hasn't had the chance to prove its merit.

We gave white peace to TOOL, but that was only for good PR.

We immediately canceled on NPO after they pulled that crap on OV, but we did that because it was going to be a curb-stomp. Somehow we knew then what side every alliance would come in on and how the war would turn out.

We've had a consistent stance this entire conflict, yet we're inconsistent because our stance isn't always in unison with the rest of Karma.

IF Mushroom Kingdom wants to judge the NPO, I have no issues, they have danced at the point of their sword their entire existence, but Sparta accusing me of righteous indignation from an unsustainable position... spare me the insult to my intelligence. You blatantly milked the Continuum for all it was worth, only publicly transferring your allegiance when the real position was extremely clear cut. Or don't you recall it quite like that? I am sure you don't but stop trying to embarrass me when you are standing completely nude in front of the world holding a piece of cardboard that you scribbled ''we are the good guys'' on moments before the first shots were fired. You had month sof stabbing your direct allies squarely between the ribs, your sign could have been signwritten by a professional with all that time up your sleeve.

You may well be essential in terms of numbers to the initial Karma front, I can see why they needed you, but for you to place yourselves into the position you now have is disgraceful... and you have the temerity and gall to insult me. I would drop that little nugget before moving too much further on with the judgment of my position.

Going to the OWF is a last resort, all it does is make the people you're trying to reach out to care even less about what you have to say. That's what it always does. If you truly gave a damn about what you said in the OP, you would have bothered coming to talk to us about it personally instead of immediately jumping to the nearest grandstand. You have an ally currently on the NPO front, and allies of your ally as well. Somehow you couldn't figure out the path to talk to us about this and share your heartfelt insight, or maybe you just couldn't be bothered with it.

Nevertheless, you're absolutely right. We're only over here because we were needed. It's not like we're friends with any of the alliances on this side. No, we needed this heartless symbiotic relationship so we could save ourselves. Of course I'm speaking from a position of complete (convenient) ignorance as to why we've come to this side and how we've conducted ourselves during this war, but I did have binoculars and I saw something moving in the distance during these past months, and I am somehow sure that is exactly what I saw. How despicable and evil of us. For you to place yourself in the position you now have is disgraceful... and you have the temerity and gall to insult the entire NPO front through your indignation. I would drop that little nugget before moving too much further on with the judgment of OUR position.

And with regard to John Rocker asking our diplomat whether or not I'm speaking for the rest of our government, I'm speaking for myself. I'll sign it "love Sparta" when it's official policy. If they want to agree with me, they're more than welcome to.

-love George the Great

Edit: Clarification

Edited July 7, 2009 by George the Great

[Derka Derek]

I'm sure it was entirely coincidental that Grub made his post and Spartans showed up enmasse with a bunch of silly/spammy type posts in a row.

I'm certain they weren't trying to bury it or anything. They certainly didn't quote it and refute a single line of it. Just called me out about grammar and such for actually taking note that Grub laid out some pretty damning words about them being side switching, back stabbers etc.

Apparently we're the only ones bored with 51, sorry it's what now, 53 or 54 pages of nothing but arguing.

[Hyperion321]

Grub's post is somewhere in here. I'm not sure which one your referring to, but I hope that helps all 3 people that think we are engaging in an evil conspiracy.

Edited July 7, 2009 by Hyperion321

[Lycurgus Rex]

For former allies turned enemies...sure must have made a good deal to change this quick.

[Caliph]

Our government were repeatedly told the terms were non negotiable. What you call propaganda, we call truth and getting our feelings out in the open. From our side of the fence, especially us normal members who aren't privvy to any of the back room stuff, we can only comment on what we see. What we see is a number of alliances fighting us determined to destroy our alliance out of fear and vengeance.

You claim that isn't true, but we only have your word on that, and sorry, few Pacificans, if any, trust anything coming from the bit of Karma at war with us. We have had no reason to. It is actions not words that count, and so far actions by our slice of the Karma cake only point to wanting us dead and gone, with our without those terms. Yes our alliance has done some bad things in its past, and we acknowledge that, but anything the Emperor or IOs try to say on these boards is met with jeers and 'PR stunt'.

We gave up the Moldavi doctrine. To us, control of the red sphere was the cornerstone of our alliance. That doctrine was a large part of our identity and losing it ripped a small bit out of the heart of every NPO member. That sacrifice also was met largely with jeers, jibes, sneers, and the usual cries of 'it's just a PR campaign'. Are you beginning to understand yet why we aren't on this board in sackcloth and ashes begging for forgiveness?

Pacificans are constantly accused of being arrogant and too full of pride. I do have a lot of pride in my alliance, but that doesn't mean I don't think we do need to change and that I think everything we ever did was ok. The arrogance isn't all one way either. Plenty of those on the other side of the fence are displaying an incredible amount of it as well.

If more Pacificans posted like this, you could very easily win the PR campaign.

This post shows a desire to change. Most posts that I've seen by other Pacificans do not.

[Hydro]

Our government were repeatedly told the terms were non negotiable. What you call propaganda, we call truth and getting our feelings out in the open. From our side of the fence, especially us normal members who aren't privvy to any of the back room stuff, we can only comment on what we see. What we see is a number of alliances fighting us determined to destroy our alliance out of fear and vengeance.

You claim that isn't true, but we only have your word on that, and sorry, few Pacificans, if any, trust anything coming from the bit of Karma at war with us. We have had no reason to. It is actions not words that count, and so far actions by our slice of the Karma cake only point to wanting us dead and gone, with our without those terms. Yes our alliance has done some bad things in its past, and we acknowledge that, but anything the Emperor or IOs try to say on these boards is met with jeers and 'PR stunt'.

We gave up the Moldavi doctrine. To us, control of the red sphere was the cornerstone of our alliance. That doctrine was a large part of our identity and losing it ripped a small bit out of the heart of every NPO member. That sacrifice also was met largely with jeers, jibes, sneers, and the usual cries of 'it's just a PR campaign'. Are you beginning to understand yet why we aren't on this board in sackcloth and ashes begging for forgiveness?

Pacificans are constantly accused of being arrogant and too full of pride. I do have a lot of pride in my alliance, but that doesn't mean I don't think we do need to change and that I think everything we ever did was ok. The arrogance isn't all one way either. Plenty of those on the other side of the fence are displaying an incredible amount of it as well.

Fair enough response. It's nice to see Pacifican's making the odd post here and there and letting people know what they think about what's going on. It doesn't happen too often and I think the community suffers for it. Makes me really wonder if Grub might be onto something here, particularly with regards to his last *sentence in the op*.

edited parts *

Edited July 7, 2009 by Hydro

[Griff]

NpO has contributed nothing to this game since before the NoCB war, but reap the benefits of doing nothing but playing SimCity, as such, you deserve nothing but to be ignored.

Are you serious?

[Pyroman]

As much as I agree with Grub on the illogical nature of Karma's collaboration, I also agree with Karma's methods in the matter.

Each one of those alliances stands in a position where they can protect their own communities (though I doubt that all of them are thinking of it so selflessly) from the future. The NPO went down once in the past, and her enemies faced Pacifian wrath because they were far too lenient. The alliances on top right now know how capable the NPO will be when it will comes to rebuilding time; they're well within reason to want to prevent that from biting them in the asses.

Yes, some of those alliances deserve a far less than glorious fate for having a hand in what is now being punished. But they were only the supporting cast. Just like the alliance that you'll never be friends with, they were never the face of all that was wrong on Bob. It's the same way the alliance that you will never be friends with again was able to turn right around and help thrash you last summer.

But they got what they had coming to them in the end as well.

Some alliances have gotten the justice they deserved while others have become hypocrites to save their own necks. But I think in the end, those hypocrites will face a dark summer, just as you have, and just as the NPO is.

But what would truly be illogical would be to expect all of these great alliances to come to justice at the same time. You're asking for too much, you're asking for the world to fix itself with one war.

One war will never balance the equation. All we can do is hope that the world gets a little better one war at a time.

I've always supported the NpO, as best as I could, which I always felt would be and never will be as much as all the NpO has done for us. This post is not a challenge to you Grub, I think you're absolutely right on many points. However, I feel that the way Karma has conducted themselves has been purely logical. You say that at the end of the last war you reflected upon yourselves and changed for the better. You were humbled in your defeat and even you believe that it did you some good. The NPO has, as far as I can tell, yet to come to these same realizations. In the blinding arrogance they wielded coming into this war, they continue to ignore how they behaved in the past and haven't changed a bit. Then again, I could be wrong about that; maybe they've changed tons and Karma is sweeping it under the rug.

Edited July 7, 2009 by Pyroman

[D34th]

However, NpO has contributed nothing to this game since before the NoCB war, but reap the benefits of doing nothing but playing SimCity, as such, you deserve nothing but to be ignored. I don't see how the neutrals, who also pride themselves on inaction, are allowed to ridiculed and criticized aggressively, but you somehow have an Admin given right to sit on the very same sidelines and paint a pretty picture of polar bears on melting ice-caps and tell us that is your official position. You have no more right to spew your "rhetoric" on here and claim that it's true than any other alliance that hasn't had the chance to prove its merit.

Translating this part of your post: You are irrelevant NpO!

Your hate make me lol