lazaraus45 Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 So i was reading through some of the earlier pages and thought i'd comment on some things, sorry if someone already mentioned my points, Pacifica is looking inward and there are discussions among our membership that you are not privy too. But yet you threaten "Permawar". Why is that helpful discourse? Even Nazi Germany was given a chance to rebuild and is a better becuase of it. Did "the loyal Pacifian" just compare himself and NPO to Nazi Germany? :/ And yes they have started down that path with both "arrogance" and "the harshest terms ever offered in the history of CN". so you consider the terms we're offering harsher than forcing you to disband? please NPO bring this up with the Karma High Command, because if this really is the case many in Karma would be more than happy to make your terms less harsh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicninja Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 I was not aware that anyone was claiming reps on GATO behalf??? besides there are many individuals spread across many of Karma's many alliances that have suffered even if their own AA has not in the way you are pointing at. Then why all the cries from Karma leaders that NPO needs to pay for their past injustices? I'm sorry but individual grievances really have no play in the situation. As has always been shouted across these boards history is tied to the allaince. Try asking Mhawk about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cataduanes Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 (edited) Karma has absolutely no moral high ground to stand on here. They say now it was never about having better morals than the NPO. So I don;t see why you are even bringing morals into it. Karma has no morals. You say 'they' but who exactly are 'they'? the fact is that many alliances have been showed the sort of mercy by Karma that would have been unthinkable by the Hegemony, if that does not equal some sort of Moral high ground then i do not know what does...but again do not allow the moral argument to cloud your judgement, this is war not a dinner party. Edited June 19, 2009 by Cataduanes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cataduanes Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Then why all the cries from Karma leaders that NPO needs to pay for their past injustices? I'm sorry but individual grievances really have no play in the situation. As has always been shouted across these boards history is tied to the allaince. Try asking Mhawk about that. Individual greivances never stopped some in the Hegemony seeking retribution, i can remember many instances since GW3. Why should some in Karma be any different, some of us are not noble, some of us are filled with a desire for vengence....you cannot disregard individual motives in this war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicninja Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 You say 'they' but who exaclty are 'they'? the fact is that many alliances have been showed the sort of mercy by Karma that would have been unthinkable by the Hegemony, if that does not equal some sort of Moral high ground then i do not know what does...but again do not allow the moral argument to cloud your judgement, this is war not a dinner party. They is the majority of Karma including alliance leaders. Giving a few alliances white peace does not a hero make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cataduanes Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Perhaps not but history is dictated by the victors no? Pax Pacifica showed that more than once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicninja Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Individual greivances never stopped some in the Hegemony seeking retribution, i can remember many instances since GW3. Why should some in Karma be any different, some of us are not noble, some of us are filled with a desire for vengence....you cannot disregard individual motives in this war. Please enlighten me to your examples. Change some to most and you're right. The individual motives is what makes Karma so full of !@#$. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicninja Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Perhaps not but history is dictated by the victors no? Pax Pacifica showed that more than once. Nah Karma is proving history is made by those who remember it. Which means you guys better be damn careful of the precedents you set here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cataduanes Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 (edited) Please enlighten me to your examples.Change some to most and you're right. The individual motives is what makes Karma so full of !@#$. looks like i will need to do some digging to give you examples later when i get home from work but rest assured i will at some point (unless someone wants to do the legwork for me ). As for individual motives well thats the way of the world Magic and no amount of bleating can change that, and as for Karma being full of !@#$ i for one can live with that, after laboring under a Jackboot (or the threat of one) for much of 2007/2008 its a small price to be called names Edited June 19, 2009 by Cataduanes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cataduanes Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 (edited) Nah Karma is proving history is made by those who remember it. Which means you guys better be damn careful of the precedents you set here. hehe good point, as for precedents you mean like the ones set by your former alliance among many others right? Edited June 19, 2009 by Cataduanes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicninja Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 looks like i will need to do some digging to give you examples later when i get home from work but rest assured i will at some point (unless someone wants to do the legwork for me ). As for individual motives well thats the way of the world Magic and no amount of bleating can change that, and as for Karma being full of !@#$ i for one can live with that, after laboring under a Jackboot (or the threat of one) for much of 2007/2008 its a small price to be called names You mean you don;t have at least one example off the top of your head? Then how can you even make a remark like that? Tsk tsk Cata. You're right no amount of talking will make Karma any less full of themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cataduanes Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 (edited) You mean you don;t have at least one example off the top of your head? Then how can you even make a remark like that? Tsk tsk Cata.You're right no amount of talking will make Karma any less full of themselves. i do but i want to make sure my memory is correct before posting the examples, thats fair surely Edited June 19, 2009 by Cataduanes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicninja Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 hehe good point, as for precedents you mean like the ones set by your former alliance among many others right? Nah I'm pretty sure Karma is setting all new dangerous precedents here. Apparently now it's ok to go to demand someone pay for things that happened years ago to alliances you never had anything to do with. It's also ok to not give peace in peace terms. It's also ok to say you are gonna tax the alliance for everything they ever took from anyone in a war and then inflate the number by 8x. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jer Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Why did you leave TPF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicninja Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 i do but i want to make sure my memory is correct before posting the examples, thats fair surely Not nearly as fair as making comments without truly knowing any facts about what you're saying, surely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicninja Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Why did you leave TPF? Secret peace terms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jer Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Cool. Sorry for interrupting and asking here, I was just suddenly curious and you were active... I will be nosey about the details of those terms some other time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta1212 Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Cool. Sorry for interrupting and asking here, I was just suddenly curious and you were active... I will be nosey about the details of those terms some other time. I'm pretty sure that was a joke. Especially considering TPF hasn't, you know, gotten terms yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doitzel Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Where did they ever persecute someone for something that never affected them? Are you ******* kidding me? Maybe you can ask a few of your friends in GATO, if you have any left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicninja Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 I'm pretty sure that was a joke. Especially considering TPF hasn't, you know, gotten terms yet. They were secret pre-terms if you wanna get technical about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicninja Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Are you ******* kidding me? Maybe you can ask a few of your friends in GATO, if you have any left. Yeah but you were all behind that. I remember a few exchanges we had when I was defending GATO and you told me to get bent. Again that was a time that NPO was directly slighted. Sure it was weak at best but they weren't persecuting GATO for something they did to another alliance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doitzel Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Yeah but you were all behind that. I remember a few exchanges we had when I was defending GATO and you told me to get bent. Again that was a time that NPO was directly slighted. Sure it was weak at best but they weren't persecuting GATO for something they did to another alliance. What I said at the time is absolutely irrelevant. It did not affect NPO in the slightest; whether the terms were breached at all is questionable at best and even if they were it was many months in the past and absolutely nothing happened, and in responce NPO put their foot on GATO's neck for a year. Persecution for ... what, exactly? What harm, what damage was done to NPO? To anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicninja Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 (edited) What I said at the time is absolutely irrelevant. It did not affect NPO in the slightest; whether the terms were breached at all is questionable at best and even if they were it was many months in the past and absolutely nothing happened, and in responce NPO put their foot on GATO's neck for a year. Persecution for ... what, exactly? What harm, what damage was done to NPO? To anyone? Jedi mind trick eh? /me waves hand "What I said then is completely irrelevant." Nice. I'm guessing it was more of a pride and respect thing. I never said I liked the situation GATO was placed in. What Karma is trying to bring down is completely different imo. They are asking NPO to pay for things they did to alliances that most of Karma could really not care less about. Edited June 19, 2009 by magicninja Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doitzel Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Jedi mind trick eh?/me waves hand "What I said then is completely irrelevant." Nice. I'm guessing it was more of a pride and respect thing. I never said I liked the situation GATO was placed in. What Karma is trying to bring down is completely different imo. They are asking NPO to pay for things they did to alliances that most of Karma could really not care less about. For the purposes of this discussion it is completely irrelevant, as this discussion is not about me nor was the question you asked... And clearly Karma does care about it, because they agree on the surrender terms presented. Certainly each individual alliance has its own grievances and priorities, but the terms are agreed upon by the entire Pacific front before presented (or I presume they are, for the most part). How does that constitute "not car[ing]" if they give their explicit consent?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicninja Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 For the purposes of this discussion it is completely irrelevant, as this discussion is not about me nor was the question you asked...And clearly Karma does care about it, because they agree on the surrender terms presented. Certainly each individual alliance has its own grievances and priorities, but the terms are agreed upon by the entire Pacific front before presented (or I presume they are, for the most part). How does that constitute "not car[ing]" if they give their explicit consent?? Of course it is but you tried to make it sound (if you have any friends left) like I completely left GATO hanging in the wind and laughed with gusto at their plight. They know and you know damn well what the truth of that is. The only grievance 90% of them have is they were brought in by treaty. OV and Athens are the only ones on the NPO front that have any real beef. How many of those alliance really care about GATO, or GPA, or FAN? I don;t think GATO has had close relations with any of those alliances. Hell, FOK used to be downright hostile. Hell, so did some of the others. Yet they love to recount NPO's wrongdoings in that war and say how NPO needs to pay for it like they really gave a !@#$ about GATO in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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