iamthey Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 If they have no navy how do they secure their waters, and if they have no air force how do they secure their skies? Also are these penalties indefinite, and perpetual, or are they on a time limit. The crimes of the nation were perpetrated by a cartel of leaders, not the nation's populous. It would be wrong to hold them and whatever government they produce responsible indefinitely. My same point applies to "increasing harshness", lets punish the leaders, and fix their nations, not punish the people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justinian the Mighty Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 (edited) Giving Slavorussia the Baltic will only open a new dark chapter, for the area has only been under Slavorussian administration after the illegal invasion of the First Nordland. Although I am an obseerver, I believe that the Baltic area, having been Nordic for such a long time, should be made into a protectorate. Ask any Nordlander that the East Baltic has historically been owned by both Slavorussia and Nordland. Also I'll ask you to please hold your insults as they are not conducive to peace. I'll also point out that the invasion wasnt illegal, we were justified since Nordland was using its allies to invade us. Edited June 18, 2009 by Justinian the Mighty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Terra Di Agea Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 If they have no navy how do they secure their waters, and if they have no air force how do they secure their skies? Also are these penalties indefinite, and perpetual, or are they on a time limit. The crimes of the nation were perpetrated by a cartel of leaders, not the nation's populous. It would be wrong to hold them and whatever government they produce responsible indefinitely. My same point applies to "increasing harshness", lets punish the leaders, and fix their nations, not punish the people. "The people, the soldier, the pencil pushers in every government office had every chance to fight agaisnt their leaders and did not. They deserve to be treated as humans, but little more than that. As for the lack of navy and airforce, only their Blue Water navies would be destroyed, not coast guard boats. After all, it is rare a massive navy comes tumbling down on your waters, and with limited army, they won't be making any declarations themselves. The terms would not be on a specified time limit, but rather when the nations are rebuilt, and the people calm down from the shock, then the terms will be removed. That is the only way to ensure that freedom sticks" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumeragi Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 -Snip- OOC: Please check the edit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamthey Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 (edited) "The people, the soldier, the pencil pushers in every government office had every chance to fight agaisnt their leaders and did not. They deserve to be treated as humans, but little more than that. As for the lack of navy and airforce, only their Blue Water navies would be destroyed, not coast guard boats. After all, it is rare a massive navy comes tumbling down on your waters, and with limited army, they won't be making any declarations themselves. The terms would not be on a specified time limit, but rather when the nations are rebuilt, and the people calm down from the shock, then the terms will be removed. That is the only way to ensure that freedom sticks" True, but lets be honest, the people of a nation are a product of that nation. The people didn't resist because they were operating under a false consciousness, in other words they were brainwashed. While some were yes riding the back of the state for their own personal gain, those individuals can be singled out and punished. What we suggest is we go into each of those countries and conduct a thorough investigation. Those who can't be held responsible for their actions will be released, those who were supporting the state for personal gain will receive punishment. As for the rest, very well. Edited June 18, 2009 by iamthey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacharth Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Far Erik Betrakte walks in and sits at a table, no longer a diplomat, but a leader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Confederation Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 "Gentlemen...I must disagree with the destruction of all blue-water navies. Prussia is a nation with a strong naval tradition that would be extinguished. Our navy, which was rarely ever used in overseas military operations, is more of a humanitarian asset to nations around the world than it was to the military of Prussia. Shall we advocate the destruction of humanitarian aid distribution around the world that can only be projected by a nation with the industrial capability, or shall we come to our senses?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justinian the Mighty Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 "Gentlemen...I must disagree with the destruction of all blue-water navies. Prussia is a nation with a strong naval tradition that would be extinguished. Our navy, which was rarely ever used in overseas military operations, is more of a humanitarian asset to nations around the world than it was to the military of Prussia. Shall we advocate the destruction of humanitarian aid distribution around the world that can only be projected by a nation with the industrial capability, or shall we come to our senses?" There is of course the issue of Nordland claiming the whole Baltic Sea, and its dependent waterways and using Prussia's navy to enforce the ridiculous claim. We don't want a repeat of the incident in the Gulf of Finland. Thank goodness it ended with no blood being spilt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacharth Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 "Gentlemen, currently the representative of the Norsvean Lander, Frederick Martens, is in critical condition at the Oslo Hospital, and Minister of Internal affairs Kristoffer Michaelson Aussicht is being pursued by the Høypolitet. Our nation is fully prepared to deal with all reasonable peace conditions." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoo Nova Posted June 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 There is of course the issue of Nordland claiming the whole Baltic Sea, and its dependent waterways and using Prussia's navy to enforce the ridiculous claim. We don't want a repeat of the incident in the Gulf of Finland. Thank goodness it ended with no blood being spilt. We would wish to see it turn into a Protectorate region (OOC: New players only, no reroll type of thing), same as it would be with the former CSSR region, Greater Germany Region & the Wästerdyskreich region. There is no need to expand into these territories for our own gain. We should allow new nations (OOC: No rerolls allowed, at all) to form up here on a mutual consensus of all European nations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justinian the Mighty Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 We would wish to see it turn into a Protectorate region (OOC: New players only, no reroll type of thing), same as it would be with the former CSSR region, Greater Germany Region & the Wästerdyskreich region. There is no need to expand into these territories for our own gain. We should allow new nations (OOC: No rerolls allowed, at all) to form up here on a mutual consensus of all European nations. Absolutely not. We were wrongly invaded and we want what is rightfully ours. All I'm asking is that the CSSR and Nordheim return the occupied provinces of Slavorussia that they took from us in the First Great Patriotic War. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoo Nova Posted June 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Absolutely not. We were wrongly invaded and we want what is rightfully ours. All I'm asking is that the CSSR and Nordheim return the occupied provinces of Slavorussia that they took from us in the First Great Patriotic War. Which CSSR provinces would those be? OOC: I don't really remember, I was assuming you meant the entirety of CSSR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Confederation Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 There is of course the issue of Nordland claiming the whole Baltic Sea, and its dependent waterways and using Prussia's navy to enforce the ridiculous claim. We don't want a repeat of the incident in the Gulf of Finland. Thank goodness it ended with no blood being spilt. "Indeed, I believe that you can then speak of the resolve and level headedness of Prussian Kriegsmarine Officers and their crews. The Baltic belongs to Europe for all of our greater benefit through trade. We will not have it any other way" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacharth Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Which CSSR provinces would those be?OOC: I don't really remember, I was assuming you meant the entirety of CSSR. The CSSR held only the Ukraine. The rest is Slavorussian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justinian the Mighty Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Which CSSR provinces would those be?OOC: I don't really remember, I was assuming you meant the entirety of CSSR. ooc: Jebus there's like 50 of them. What I want is all CSSR land that isnt part of RL Ukraine. Also for the sake of dramaz cuz i fighting with KM so much I'm gonna be an complete dick about the Baltic States. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Terra Di Agea Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 "Gentlemen...I must disagree with the destruction of all blue-water navies. Prussia is a nation with a strong naval tradition that would be extinguished. Our navy, which was rarely ever used in overseas military operations, is more of a humanitarian asset to nations around the world than it was to the military of Prussia. Shall we advocate the destruction of humanitarian aid distribution around the world that can only be projected by a nation with the industrial capability, or shall we come to our senses?" "So, you like to point giant guns in the faces of whomever you give aid to? This is ridiculous, you do not need a militarized navy to give out humanitarian aid, only a good cargo ship and workers. We will personally give you the cargo ships if needed, but we are adamant that blue-water navy is destroyed." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberstein Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Slavorussia should be returned it's original territory. The rest of the land should become TEC protectorates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoo Nova Posted June 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Slavorussia should be returned it's original territory. The rest of the land should become TEC protectorates. No, TEC won't have any protectorates. There is going to be created a European Union that will over see these protectorates, which will include TEC. OOC: That can't happen, since I am in a good chunk of Slavorussian territory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiser Martens Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 The Nordheimer proposal is to keep its pre-nordland territory (Mainland and Iceland) with the addition of the following lands, in the coastal section: That is all. We wish to be left alone. We will not decomission our nukes under *ANY* circumstances, and that is not negotiable, for we do not trust that anybody else would defend us, since they hate our culture and people. I hope that you will take this offer, for I do not really wish to see things getting worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamthey Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 (edited) We agree, Europe needs a new bloc for a new Europe. The TEC is a product of this mess, as it was created in reaction to nordic dominance in Europe. It is best to put it all behind ourselves. OOC: He just means the stuff the people drawn into the war occupied. Edited June 18, 2009 by iamthey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Confederation Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 "So, you like to point giant guns in the faces of whomever you give aid to? This is ridiculous, you do not need a militarized navy to give out humanitarian aid, only a good cargo ship and workers. We will personally give you the cargo ships if needed, but we are adamant that blue-water navy is destroyed." OOC: I can send you a testimony to congress by the prospective NATO Supreme Allied Commander that says differently. That a war navy is required to provide humanitarian aid. He calls it's a a "Do good fleet" were all the ships are there, but instead of being centered around a carrier, its' center around a large humanitarian craft. Cruisers, Frigates, Subs, Etc. are still there, just with a different function. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEDCJT Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 OOC: I'd post here ICly, but then, I'm not European. Anyways, why dont you all put up a vote (a poll on the forums) and let the people in these lands (Baltic states, former Slavorussian lands in the CSSR) decide? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Californian Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 (edited) EDIT: OOC woops Edited June 18, 2009 by Californian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiser Martens Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 OOC: Because the outcome would be obvious, as a good part of the enemies have an OOC grudge on me, and the others simply do not understand IC history enough to see why the territories I request are Core Territories, not some random conquered !@#$. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberstein Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 No, TEC won't have any protectorates. There is going to be created a European Union that will over see these protectorates, which will include TEC.OOC: That can't happen, since I am in a good chunk of Slavorussian territory. OOC: I obviously mean any territory held by the nords that was once slavorussian must be returned. IC: TEC has been fighting this war since the begining, we have the full right to be this "European Union" and have protectorate power over Europe. The Nordheimer proposal is to keep its pre-nordland territory (Mainland and Iceland) with the addition of the following lands, in the coastal section: That is all. We wish to be left alone. We will not decomission our nukes under *ANY* circumstances, and that is not negotiable, for we do not trust that anybody else would defend us, since they hate our culture and people. I hope that you will take this offer, for I do not really wish to see things getting worse. We have given you our terms, your concessions are unacceptable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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