I'm baffled NPO

[Azaghul]

Leaving 1 slot per nation for rebuilding aid is part of the peace terms, so nations will already be using 5 slots each prior to the efficiency adjustments.

And really, all you've done in your "plan" is find another way to reach the "how much tech 50 nations with 5 slots at 100% efficiency can send out" figure. Your calculations are effectively assuming a 100% rate, even when you claim they do not.

Is that in the terms? I thought the terms just allowed 1 slots of rebuilding aid total per slot of reps payments, not particular to any individual nation. Or even just provided that as many slots had to be devoted towards reps as internal aid.

NPO has 170 DRAs, I have a hard time believing that that doesn't include the great majority of those with high tech counts and banks. Not to mention that it leaves a huge amount of extra banking potential that could be tapped to make up for it in months 3-6.

[Azaghul]

My question is this: If you believe that hitting our bank nations for two weeks won't truly have any large or lasting economic pitfalls, then why enforce it? You are arguing that we will be able to rebuild even with banks taking two weeks of war, so what then is the point?

It won't destroy those with large nation's banking potential. That's not to say it won't hurt a lot. A 5K infra nation can bank just as well as a 10K infra nation, so both are as useful for the purposes of rebuilding. However that doesn't mean a 10K infra nation isn't better overall than a 5K infra nation and far more powerful in a war.

[King Death II]

Ive read this thread and the other NPO posts. All I can seem to gather from it is this: "We dont know how to fight wars, our banks are pathetic at building war chests, our top nations suck at activity and we overall suck at CN so thats why we cant pay the reps."

[steodonn]

Our nations with cash on hand can rebuild. The thing is, we don't have 181 banks.

You have 176 able to pay tech reps

Thats 250 a cycle

Seems that NPO is supposed to be such an active and committed alliance lets say 150 will end up paying

150 x 250 = 37,500

80 days to pay off tech reps allowing for 26 nations leaving/not paying

Considering GATO had a Viceroy for over a year ya these terms aren't harsh at all

[Cortath]

You have 176 able to pay tech reps

Thats 250 a cycle

Seems that NPO is supposed to be such an active and committed alliance lets say 150 will end up paying

150 x 250 = 37,500

80 days to pay off tech reps allowing for 26 nations leaving/not paying

Considering GATO had a Viceroy for over a year ya these terms aren't harsh at all

This is an automated response from Cortath, an Imperial Officer of the New Pacific Order.

You have generated this response for the following reasons: [bad economics], [efficiency calculations].

Please read this post.

[Azaghul]

I just did a count, 129 out of 178 of the guys with 1000+ tech have DRAs. More than enough to fit into the plan I outlined.

Edit: I'd also point out that my plan INCLUDES using a significant proportion of banking slots for internal aid. You might spread it out to split the slots of each banks rather than splitting banks for different purposes.

Edited June 14, 2009 by Azaghul

[Ejayrazz]

What is your opinion?

I wouldn't offer these terms, but I understand why others will. I believe by offering these terms, NPO will want revenge one day - whether this is understandable or not I will not get into. However, I want the era of harsh terms gone, that is, demanding such high reparations, but the problem with this ideal is one side will need to be the bigger person. Karma is quite frankly demanding high reps like NPO did once before to them- this is what the very definition of karma is whether people accept it or not, but the question is: If NPO regains power and conquers these forces, will they be the one to say "This is enough, if we don't stop the cycle now we'll constantly be in the same position". I see a constant cycle soon to come from this, but I understand where they are coming from. Some alliances were destroyed, some people forced to leave the game or create new accounts, some simply want revenge. Since I do not hate the NPO, my opinion is biased as those who want revenge are biased. Can I understand them? Yes. Do I agree we these terms? No. Why? Cause I am biased and my codex wouldn't allow me to, nor would I or I'd be a hypocrite. Do I belief my views are going to be adopted? No, cause not everyone believes in white peace, which is certainly acceptable.

Edited June 14, 2009 by Ejayrazz

[steodonn]

This is an automated response from Cortath, an Imperial Officer of the New Pacific Order.

You have generated this response for the following reasons: [bad economics], [efficiency calculations].

Please read this post.

Who said it has to be good economics . I just want the tech to bleed from NPO

[Lennox]

It also assumes none of those nations

[*] Goes rogue

[*] Just quits

[*] Surrenders before terms

[*] Moves on from the NPO.

The terms are vindictive, cruel and unusual. And they are not possible in any case.

Worst. Terms. Ever.

I don't even know where to begin. I'll just skip to the end. Your alliance is getting off light.

[Rajistani]

Uhm.. its not 2 weeks of war. Its undetermined period PLUS 2 weeks.

[Cortath]

Who said it has to be good economics . I just want the tech to bleed from NPO

See. This is what I like. Honesty.

I don't believe that these reparation amounts were in any way based off of calculations on how much we could pay. I think Karma came up with a number that sounded good to them, and gave it to us. When we responded that we felt it was not payable and provided a lot of economic analysis to back it up, they were forced to try to come with unrealistic economic models to prove that we can.

But when it comes down to it, steodonn, I think your opinion reflects that of Karma best than many other posts I've seen in the past few days. These terms weren't made to be payable. Many alliances in Karma, against us, wants eternal war with us. They know that PR-wise, that's going to be hard to get. So they sit around and think, "What terms would be impossible to pay, just like eternal war, which is what we want? That way, we get the benefits of eternal war, without the negative PR" This is the result.

I think that Karma's attempts are pretty transparent, made more so by the rejection of the counter-offer and their stated unwillingness to drop the peace mode clause, and tech coming from 1K+ nation clauses, no matter what was given by NPO in exchange.

Edited June 14, 2009 by Cortath

[Louisa]

The math is amateurish at best. All he did was multiply his answer by two-ish.

Do you mean this? --

Cash need to buy Infra with a 3BG and an ISS

20-99 needs 33,947

100-199 needs 98,334

200-999 needs 3,686,220

1000-2999 needs 37,487,224

3000-3999 needs 39,183,335

4000-4999 needs 67,061,960

Total 147,551,019

or

20-99 needs 33,947

100-199 needs 98,334

200-999 needs 3,686,220

1000-2999 needs 37,487,224

3000-3999 needs 39,183,335

4000-4999 needs 67,061,960

5000-5999 needs 102,380,341

6000-6999 needs 145,272,592

Total 395,203,953

If you did mean this then perhaps a second glance will show you that the tables are the same, except that the second is extended to cover 5000-6999 Infrastructure (which I have marked red here). I guess it is for those who want to build just that little extra

[Cortath]

Do you mean this? --

If you did mean this then perhaps a second glance will show you that the tables are the same, except that the second is extended to cover 5000-6999 Infrastructure (which I have marked red here). I guess it is for those who want to build just that little extra

No, I didn't mean that. I meant the difference between his time estimates of 2-3 months and 5-6 months, in response to Archon's post.

[Epik High]

You guys are doing so much math and putting so much effort in proofs for terms that NPO, payable or not, is not going to accept.

[Azaghul]

You guys are doing so much math and putting so much effort in proofs for terms that NPO, payable or not, is not going to accept.

They are using the excuse that they aren't payable, so it's worthwhile either way.

[Delta1212]

Actually, if NPO were to accept the terms, no NPO nation coming out of hippy would receive longer than the agreed upon war time, which is 14 days. We would use something akin to bkphysics's suggestion, which would be maintaining a list of who has warred the requisite 14 days and who hasn't. Once there has reached 90 percent compliance, then the other portions of the terms begins.

The ignoring of this post is amusing.

[Cortath]

The ignoring of this post is amusing.

There's no ignoring. There's simply the fact that Karma has made it clear that they will no accept no altering of that term. If they will, contrary to their express statements, they need to come and approach us with the new, altered term.

[Tromp]

One can only assume why, lol.

[TigerBaby]

There's no ignoring. There's simply the fact that Karma has made it clear that they will no accept no altering of that term. If they will, contrary to their express statements, they need to come and approach us with the new, altered term.

No one needs to approach you with anything. You're defeated. They can do whatever they like with you. And all you can do is whine.

[neneko]

Converted to tech mk paid off a 4th of these reps with a tenth of the member count. I know NPO will never be as glorious as MK but I thought you could do close to half as good as them at least.

[Cortath]

No one needs to approach you with anything. You're defeated. They can do whatever they like with you. And all you can do is whine.

*chuckles heartily*

Anyone who knows me knows that I do not whine, I chuckle.

And yes, you are precisely correct, which is why I ignored the post. Suggestions for mechanisms to remove or alter this clause will fall on the deaf ears of Karma, hence, I do not care to waste my breath discussing them.

[Delta1212]

There's no ignoring. There's simply the fact that Karma has made it clear that they will no accept no altering of that term. If they will, contrary to their express statements, they need to come and approach us with the new, altered term.

You just said you didn't ignore it and then gave a reason why you ignored it. Unless we're defining ignoring something in a discussion as something other than a complete failure to reply to, address or otherwise acknowledge the existence of a post.

[Cortath]

Converted to tech mk paid off a 4th of these reps with a tenth of the member count. I know NPO will never be as glorious as MK but I thought you could do close to half as good as them at least.

This is an automated response from Cortath, an Imperial Officer of the New Pacific Order.

You have generated this response for the following reasons: [bad economics], [MK!=NPO].

Please read this post regarding the ability to pay off reparations. and this post about how your alliance is different than mine.

[Cortath]

You just said you didn't ignore it and then gave a reason why you ignored it. Unless we're defining ignoring something in a discussion as something other than a complete failure to reply to, address or otherwise acknowledge the existence of a post.

Your semantic argument is cute.

[TigerBaby]

*chuckles heartily*

Anyone who knows me knows that I do not whine, I chuckle.

And yes, you are precisely correct, which is why I ignored the post. Suggestions for mechanisms to remove or alter this clause will fall on the deaf ears of Karma, hence, I do not care to waste my breath discussing them.

Look here is the reality. Suggestions that an alliance can't get 90% of nations into war mode are absurd. You saying they are inactive??? Why aren't they being deleted???

Stop being absurd and comply or die. No one cares which you choose.