USN Treaty Announcement

[KaitlinK]

Common Defense Treaty alliances are on the opposite side of MDP web. Maroon is still our sphere, and we'll do our best to defend it if we can without hurting our current Foreign Policy. Many of you might not like it, but it's there, and our allies at CDT mean just as much to us as Maroon does. It was a hard choice for me to cancel Chestnut, but it was a choice that in my opinion was the right one. Maybe I'm wrong, only the next few months will tell, but I'd like to hope that if it is the wrong choice, that we've still got alliance in our sphere to defend them when they need us, and to rely on when we need them.

Lance, our Foreign Policy may change, but we'll never move off Maroon

So we can all expect your withdraw from the CDT soon? Since your relationships with maroon and the CDT are of equal value and all.

Edited June 12, 2009 by KaitlinK

[crazyisraelie]

So we can all expect your withdraw from the CDT soon? Since your relationships with maroon and the CDT are of equal value and all.

I believe this is a fitting comment.

If both are conflicting then both should be pulled.

Or are CDT the more respected and valued allies?

[rodrod]

You guys just don't give up do you? We value Maroon as allies and we're not trying to distance ourselves from you. We're not canceling on CDT anytime soon because they too are our allies. We hold both of you in high regard, but we chose to cancel on Maroon, not CDT. Now look at this, you've complained about it all day long and guess what, nothing has changed. Maybe it's a hint that it's time to stop?

[KaitlinK]

You guys just don't give up do you? We value Maroon as allies and we're not trying to distance ourselves from you. We're not canceling on CDT anytime soon because they too are our allies. We hold both of you in high regard, but we chose to cancel on Maroon, not CDT. Now look at this, you've complained about it all day long and guess what, nothing has changed. Maybe it's a hint that it's time to stop?

By leaving a mlitary bloc that includes virtually all of maroon, you are distancing yourself from the rest of maroon. You also state that you value maroon and the CDT equally when clearly you've chosen one over the other. Maybe since we're not all buying the spin, it's time to buck up and be honest about what actually happened here?

[D34th]

By leaving a mlitary bloc that includes virtually all of maroon, you are distancing yourself from the rest of maroon. You also state that you value maroon and the CDT equally when clearly you've chosen one over the other. Maybe since we're not all buying the spin, it's time to buck up and be honest about what actually happened here?

I think you could love an color but not the alliances who are there, I think the problem is because you guys see Maroon and Chestnut Accords as the same thing and forgot that Chestnut Accords is just a bloc not the color sphere.

Just an unbiased opinion from someone who don't know what's really happen and is just with Insomnia.

[rodrod]

By leaving a mlitary bloc that includes virtually all of maroon, you are distancing yourself from the rest of maroon. You also state that you value maroon and the CDT equally when clearly you've chosen one over the other. Maybe since we're not all buying the spin, it's time to buck up and be honest about what actually happened here?

I think you could love an color but not the alliances who are there, I think the problem is because you guys see Maroon and Chestnut Accords as the same thing and forgot that Chestnut Accords is just a bloc not the color sphere.

Just an unbiased opinion from someone who don't know what's really happen and is just with Insomnia.

Death here is getting at it. Just because we left Maroon doesn't mean we won't fend for it. Just because we had to leave the bloc due to conflicting treaty's doesn't mean we don't still want to be friends and allies. One had to go, unfortunately for you guys, it ended up being Chestnut. I can't say I regret it, but I was never happy about having to do it...but one had to go...

[HeinousOne]

At first I couldnt figure out what the hell USN was doing. It didnt seem to make sense but now it appears that this may have been going on for some time and some of their maroon friends didnt like some of the other folks USN was hanging with and seeing how those Maroon folks arent holding back and letting up on having a go at USN over this I find it easy to assume that this isnt the first time they have pursued USN with such aggression.

It comes to no surprise to me then that USN might choose those who are not telling them "It's them or us."

If I am wrong then my apologies for reading the situation wrong but even if I am wrong at some point you have to realize that hounding someone for leaving your bloc is just bad form even if you are in the right.

[Mythology]

Best of luck USN

o/

[Mythology]

By leaving a mlitary bloc that includes virtually all of maroon, you are distancing yourself from the rest of maroon. You also state that you value maroon and the CDT equally when clearly you've chosen one over the other. Maybe since we're not all buying the spin, it's time to buck up and be honest about what actually happened here?

In My honost opinion here KaitlinK - Your sig might say it all in one word

Karma

[NoFish]

At first I couldnt figure out what the hell USN was doing. It didnt seem to make sense but now it appears that this may have been going on for some time and some of their maroon friends didnt like some of the other folks USN was hanging with and seeing how those Maroon folks arent holding back and letting up on having a go at USN over this I find it easy to assume that this isnt the first time they have pursued USN with such aggression.

It comes to no surprise to me then that USN might choose those who are not telling them "It's them or us."

If I am wrong then my apologies for reading the situation wrong but even if I am wrong at some point you have to realize that hounding someone for leaving your bloc is just bad form even if you are in the right.

I'm not aware of any case of anyone telling USN, or even seriously suggesting to USN, that they drop CDT. What KaitlinK and other marooners are calling them on is saying that they value both blocs equally, but then only canceling on one of them. Rodrod, specifically, has been said "our allies at CDT mean just as much to us as Maroon does," which is a blatant lie. If both blocs meant just as much they would have kept with each or canceled each (and probably would have followed through on their treaty commitments when they were called upon).

[nutkase]

I'm not aware of any case of anyone telling USN, or even seriously suggesting to USN, that they drop CDT. What KaitlinK and other marooners are calling them on is saying that they value both blocs equally, but then only canceling on one of them. Rodrod, specifically, has been said "our allies at CDT mean just as much to us as Maroon does," which is a blatant lie. If both blocs meant just as much they would have kept with each or canceled each (and probably would have followed through on their treaty commitments when they were called upon).

Maybe that is why they cancelled on CA, that these alliance leaders (kait is one of them) is going around demanding answers from other alliances when really they are in no position to ask. By the attitude seen in this thread from maroon alliances (except TTK, who have acted with respect) there has always been a rift between the majority of Maroon within CA and USN. By going around and demanding answers, your just showing why they cancelled on CA.

[darkfox]

By leaving a mlitary bloc that includes virtually all of maroon, you are distancing yourself from the rest of maroon. You also state that you value maroon and the CDT equally when clearly you've chosen one over the other. Maybe since we're not all buying the spin, it's time to buck up and be honest about what actually happened here?

Seems like you are rather jaded and fail to see their reasoning. Perhaps you should ask in private instead of making such a scene that makes you look so poorly. If you are looking for them to say "hey we hate Maroon and we love our CDT friends" then you will be very disappointed because of the fact that it would be a blatant lie. Its obvious that they still do like maroon or else they would have canceled the economic part of CA. Now please keep insulting them and their government so that their emotions towards you guys changes in a negative way.

Anyway that is just my two cents.

[Freelancer]

Seems like you are rather jaded and fail to see their reasoning.

No it's not it's crystal clear

Perhaps you should ask in private instead of making such a scene that makes you look so poorly.

I resent that remark, Kait never looks poorly in public, that be my job, her "some of us don't do subtle" remark was reminding the public, look out Freelancers on the loose.

If you are looking for them to say "hey we hate Maroon and we love our CDT friends" then you will be very disappointed because of the fact that it would be a blatant lie.

Really, actions speak louder than words, I'm going to be very nice here and respect my Maroon brethren and not drag a ton of dirty laundry out here, however it's quite clear to me the devious plan being hatched right now, speaking with dozens of people last night it's crystal clear, as one of The ORIGINAL members who spent more time and money supporting USN I am appalled, I swear I have right mind to gather 30- 40 key maroon personal and a few friends from the past and go join the place, There becoming the GGA of our sphere and I for one don't like the publicity.

Its obvious that they still do like maroon or else they would have canceled the economic part of CA.

Its obvious they still need US the color transformation hasn't been ordered just yet.

Now please keep insulting them and their government so that their emotions towards you guys changes in a negative way.

hahaha, I'm gona leave this one alone, I could have way to much fun with this.

Anyway that is just my two cents.

Well it ain't worth it, it's less than a tenth of a cent.

Now to Beal, rodrod, AlenB and the rest of the members of The USN, I do not hate The USN and would never want to see it destroyed, I helped build the damn place for Christs sake, if you ask why I voice my opinion in such a vile manner it's simple, I do it for you to remember these names

ASB

Marine91

Scuba Lumberjack

Prozach

Hexola

Flyskate

Xiao Weng

King Norman

Capt. Tabor

Gibson

Candian1971

Bootlegga

Lord Wazzpia

And countless marooners who spoke in this thread, however my personal favorite marooner of all time... Lord Poo

Edited June 12, 2009 by Freelancer

[Shane-o]

What most of maroon recognizes as the real reason for the treaty cancellation has not been acknowledged by the USN, hence the reason many are calling them out. Being that many of the leaders of the alliances in CA are former USN members, they are very familiar with the situation there and the potential drivers for the USN's decision. This has undoubtedly been used in the CA signatory alliance leaders reasoning on this issue, being slightly on the outside (not a CA signatory) I would say those who are advising leaders to stop questioning the USN haven't recognized why this drama is taking place.

[nutkase]

What most of maroon recognizes as the real reason for the treaty cancellation has not been acknowledged by the USN, hence the reason many are calling them out. Being that many of the leaders of the alliances in CA are former USN members, they are very familiar with the situation there and the potential drivers for the USN's decision. This has undoubtedly been used in the CA signatory alliance leaders reasoning on this issue, being slightly on the outside (not a CA signatory) I would say those who are advising leaders to stop questioning the USN haven't recognized why this drama is taking place.

While there is former USN members in other CA alliances. They have no right to call USN out based on the fact they ARE NOT current members. I have no right dictating to other alliances that I have been part off, how they act or which treaties they should keep/drop now do I?

Why can't CA accept that USN does not want to be part of it, and let them be on their merry way? So what if they did not give you the answer you were looking for

Edited June 12, 2009 by nutkase

[reroll]

Posted on June 2nd.

Coras response indicates that this topic has been discussed there before.

We know what history tells us of the USN's character.

I'm certain it didn't come easy.

Good job on making a hard decision.

How you doing Free buddy? c71.

[Benjamin Arouet]

I think you could love an color but not the alliances who are there, I think the problem is because you guys see Maroon and Chestnut Accords as the same thing and forgot that Chestnut Accords is just a bloc not the color sphere.

Just an unbiased opinion from someone who don't know what's really happen and is just with Insomnia.

At first I couldnt figure out what the hell USN was doing. It didnt seem to make sense but now it appears that this may have been going on for some time and some of their maroon friends didnt like some of the other folks USN was hanging with and seeing how those Maroon folks arent holding back and letting up on having a go at USN over this I find it easy to assume that this isnt the first time they have pursued USN with such aggression.

It comes to no surprise to me then that USN might choose those who are not telling them "It's them or us."

If I am wrong then my apologies for reading the situation wrong but even if I am wrong at some point you have to realize that hounding someone for leaving your bloc is just bad form even if you are in the right.

I understand completely what you guys are saying, and if my sole impression of the incident or incidents leading up to this was from this thread, I'm sure I would feel the same. That said, you are completely wrong (though as I emphasized you could not know that). There are many things that have been going on in the past weeks and months leading up to this that have gone unsaid because they are private business and, while we may be publicly criticizing USN here, there are many things which most of us on Maroon have too strong feelings for them as friends still to say out loud. Suffice to say that what is being said here is not the full story. Maroon alliances have long shared a bond, at least at leadership level, that I think is shared by no other sphere. There are many people being extremely critical because, I think, we know so much about each other, and therefore know too much about USNs decision to fully accept the reasoning given by some in this thread for their actions. I would encourage anyone that has not spent time in the Maroon circle of leadership who is reading this to be careful judging anyone who has, USN members included, because odds are you're commenting with insufficient information at your disposal.

Anyways, just my own 2 cents.

[beale947]

1) It's Beale!!!

2) If these people still care so much for USN, then why did they leave?

They may have made us who we are, but there say in it ended, as soon as they decided to leave.

And if the rest of Maroon are going to call us traitors to the colour:

3) It's a bloody colour

4) The MDP is now a ODP, so yeah, we've abandoned you all.

Seriously you need to get a new lineWe arn't puppets to be told what to do by the rest of Maroon, so perhaps you should stop telling us what we should be doing and simply accepting it like grown people...

[Freelancer]

I understand completely what you guys are saying, and if my sole impression of the incident or incidents leading up to this was from this thread, I'm sure I would feel the same. That said, you are completely wrong (though as I emphasized you could not know that). There are many things that have been going on in the past weeks and months leading up to this that have gone unsaid because they are private business and, while we may be publicly criticizing USN here, there are many things which most of us on Maroon have too strong feelings for them as friends still to say out loud. Suffice to say that what is being said here is not the full story. Maroon alliances have long shared a bond, at least at leadership level, that I think is shared by no other sphere. There are many people being extremely critical because, I think, we know so much about each other, and therefore know too much about USNs decision to fully accept the reasoning given by some in this thread for their actions. I would encourage anyone that has not spent time in the Maroon circle of leadership who is reading this to be careful judging anyone who has, USN members included, because odds are you're commenting with insufficient information at your disposal.

Anyways, just my own 2 cents.

Listen to this man for he is wise and all knowing, Hey Ben long time no chat and your opinion is worth much more than 2 cents..

@ Re-roll I know who you are, I'm doing great yourself ?

[nutkase]

I understand completely what you guys are saying, and if my sole impression of the incident or incidents leading up to this was from this thread, I'm sure I would feel the same. That said, you are completely wrong (though as I emphasized you could not know that). There are many things that have been going on in the past weeks and months leading up to this that have gone unsaid because they are private business and, while we may be publicly criticizing USN here, there are many things which most of us on Maroon have too strong feelings for them as friends still to say out loud. Suffice to say that what is being said here is not the full story. Maroon alliances have long shared a bond, at least at leadership level, that I think is shared by no other sphere. There are many people being extremely critical because, I think, we know so much about each other, and therefore know too much about USNs decision to fully accept the reasoning given by some in this thread for their actions. I would encourage anyone that has not spent time in the Maroon circle of leadership who is reading this to be careful judging anyone who has, USN members included, because odds are you're commenting with insufficient information at your disposal.

Anyways, just my own 2 cents.

Then don't post up criticizing USN (as in CA alliances not your personally), when in turn you don't want other criticizing your posts because you think others don't have the full information

[Freelancer]

1) It's Beale!!!

2) If these people still care so much for USN, then why did they leave?

They may have made us who we are, but there say in it ended, as soon as they decided to leave.

And if the rest of Maroon are going to call us traitors to the colour:

3) It's a bloody colour

4) The MDP is now a ODP, so yeah, we've abandoned you all.

Seriously you need to get a new line We arn't puppets to be told what to do by the rest of Maroon, so perhaps you should stop telling us what we should be doing and simply accepting it like grown people...

Were not calling you traitors and I will never say that, The piece of the puzzle your missing resides on on another sphere, thats the point all of us are trying to make, me leaving is a unique situation, however I'm preety sure I could comment for most of The Brain but I'll let them decide if they want to hang that person in public.

I'm done with this thread.

Good Luck something tells me you'll need it ...

[Benjamin Arouet]

Then don't post up criticizing USN (as in CA alliances not your personally), when in turn you don't want other criticizing your posts because you think others don't have the full information

It's a passionate color, what do you want from us? In many of the situations I know it's difficult because, as I've seen, someone posts a mildly critical post, USN responds, they feel the USN response is insufficient and they respond. Even in this situation, there is some dirty laundry which doesn't belong out in public, so while USN and the CA alliances know what's being talked about, outsiders likely do not. Perhaps none of it should be said in the first place, but its a messy situation. I think most CA alliance members are in agreement on where the majority of the mess originates, and what I really think you're seeing here is how much Maroon cares about USN. If we (as in Maroon) did not care about them, we wouldn't be so hurt and angry by a new FA course which we believe is a result of a situation that the USN we've known the past 2 1/2-3 years should never have found themselves in.

The discussion you're seeing is a passionate representation about how much both CA leaders and ex-USN members still care about the direction the alliance takes, and how sad this situation has made us all.

Edit: Also hey Freelancer, long time no see indeed.

Edited June 12, 2009 by Benjamin Arouet

[Borimir Resurrected]

No it's not it's crystal clear

You're angry that USN is taking a different path than you'd prefer, so you're lashing out at them. Pretty clear to me.

I resent that remark, Kait never looks poorly in public, that be my job, her "some of us don't do subtle" remark was reminding the public, look out Freelancers on the loose.

While KaitlinK's behavior in this thread is better than yours, thats not saying much. Both of you are making yourselves look rather poor.

Really, actions speak louder than words, I'm going to be very nice here and respect my Maroon brethren and not drag a ton of dirty laundry out here, however it's quite clear to me the devious plan being hatched right now, speaking with dozens of people last night it's crystal clear, as one of The ORIGINAL members who spent more time and money supporting USN I am appalled, I swear I have right mind to gather 30- 40 key maroon personal and a few friends from the past and go join the place, There becoming the GGA of our sphere and I for one don't like the publicity.

You seem to be forgetting that you're no longer a member of USN. They're a sovereign alliance that, whether you like it or not, can make their own decisions. Suggesting that you should coup USN just to get your way is extremely childish. And personally, I wouldn't expect USN to allow you into their ranks.

Its obvious they still need US the color transformation hasn't been ordered just yet.

As USN has stated, they're not switching colors.

[nutkase]

It's a passionate color, what do you want from us? In many of the situations I know it's difficult because, as I've seen, someone posts a mildly critical post, USN responds, they feel the USN response is insufficient and they respond. Even in this situation, there is some dirty laundry which doesn't belong out in public, so while USN and the CA alliances know what's being talked about, outsiders likely do not. Perhaps none of it should be said in the first place, but its a messy situation. I think most CA alliance members are in agreement on where the majority of the mess originates, and what I really think you're seeing here is how much Maroon cares about USN. If we (as in Maroon) did not care about them, we wouldn't be so hurt and angry by a new FA course which we believe is a result of a situation that the USN we've known the past 2 1/2-3 years should never have found themselves in.

The discussion you're seeing is a passionate representation about how much both CA leaders and ex-USN members still care about the direction the alliance takes, and how sad this situation has made us all.

Edit: Also hey Freelancer, long time no see indeed.

In Maroon, being passionate about USN and flaming USN seems to go hand in hand going by this thread and what has become of it.

USN is a ally of UCN, we will defend them in both military and political sense using the information on hand, no matter how much we have and how messy it gets

[Freelancer]

You're angry that USN is taking a different path than you'd prefer, so you're lashing out at them. Pretty clear to me.

While KaitlinK's behavior in this thread is better than yours, thats not saying much. Both of you are making yourselves look rather poor.

You seem to be forgetting that you're no longer a member of USN. They're a sovereign alliance that, whether you like it or not, can make their own decisions. Suggesting that you should coup USN just to get your way is extremely childish. And personally, I wouldn't expect USN to allow you into their ranks.

As USN has stated, they're not switching colors.

I know I said I was done with this thread but thank you.

First, I'm a prick everyone knows it, so I never look poorly thats my character.

Secondly be-careful what you wish for, if you don't think I'll spend my vacation which BTW is coming in 2 weeks getting 30-40 people together to join the USN think again, I assure you I have no problems spending a few hundred putting a few key personal in place..

Now I'm DONE have a nice day !!!