Teriethien Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 Why is this still continuing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KagetheSecond Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 I get upset when I go to parties and even though ALMOST everyone else is doing drugs, some decide not to do drugs. I mean where do they get off, seriously. Every party has to have a party pooper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoFish Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 I get upset when I go to parties and even though ALMOST everyone else is doing drugs, some decide not to do drugs. I mean where do they get off, seriously. So close. Your analogy is missing the part where we ate more nukes than we would have if you fully committed to the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nizzle Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 No one is saying that we wouldn't have been nuked, just that we would have been nuked less, while at the same time their targets would have eaten more nukes, presumably of the particularly painful high tech WRC-backed variety that TOP has a reputation for.By your logic it doesn't matter if TOP join in or not. We would have lost infra anyway, TOP's targets would have lost infra anyway, there's no point! In fact, we could all just sell ourselves to ZI and save ourselves the trouble! You would have lost more infra while they lost less, as no one was there to take their defensive slots. At least, according to what TOP has said and that has not yet been refuted. Even if the targets ate nukes, they would have still nuked. If they were smart, they could have nuked for some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiquidMercury Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 (OOC) I go to the bar, get some lady friend to enjoy and this is to what I return. I am disappointed by all. I have repeatedly told all that I was misinformed, and through that misinformation I started a rumor? that was not true. That being said I will no longer lead Karma, or anything else for that matter. I am a soldier by heart, and do not banter words. I tell it how it is and do not like to trifle with petty BS that comes from trying to be polite or taking responsibility. I'm not one to smear names, I will not give logs of anything that happened, for better or for worse. I would hope that my allies in war, my allies by paper, and any that respect continue to do so, but I am only who I am. For better or for worse. This will be the last I post on this thread. LiquidMercury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nananana Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 So close. Your analogy is missing the part where we ate more nukes than we would have if you fully committed to the war. more drugs for the rest. it seems that peace for Vox and other PZI groups was something seriously pushed for. And along those lines, I'm very upset that you guys did not work to actively infiltrate the enemy's organization to discover their battle tactics and share with the relevant parties their war plans. Where's your full commitment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta1212 Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 (OOC) I go to the bar, get some lady friend to enjoy and this is to what I return. I am disappointed by all. I have repeatedly told all that I was misinformed, and through that misinformation I started a rumor? that was not true. That being said I will no longer lead Karma, or anything else for that matter. I am a soldier by heart, and do not banter words. I tell it how it is and do not like to trifle with petty BS that comes from trying to be polite or taking responsibility. I'm not one to smear names, I will not give logs of anything that happened, for better or for worse. I would hope that my allies in war, my allies by paper, and any that respect continue to do so, but I am only who I am. For better or for worse. This will be the last I post on this thread.LiquidMercury Still love you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nizzle Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 (OOC) I go to the bar, get some lady friend to enjoy and this is to what I return. I am disappointed by all. I have repeatedly told all that I was misinformed, and through that misinformation I started a rumor? that was not true. That being said I will no longer lead Karma, or anything else for that matter. I am a soldier by heart, and do not banter words. I tell it how it is and do not like to trifle with petty BS that comes from trying to be polite or taking responsibility. I'm not one to smear names, I will not give logs of anything that happened, for better or for worse. I would hope that my allies in war, my allies by paper, and any that respect continue to do so, but I am only who I am. For better or for worse. This will be the last I post on this thread.LiquidMercury LM: Remembering how to do it right when everyone else has forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Lightning Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 That being said I will no longer lead Karma, or anything else for that matter. I hope this is the booze talking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heft Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 Holy hell, you guys managed to drag this out to 26 pages? Wasn't this entire thread resolved on page 1? I have to say, I am impressed. Kudos to you all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptGodzilla Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 LM: Remembering how to do it right when everyone else has forgotten. At least Nizzle knows when he's doing it wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiquidMercury Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 I hope this is the booze talking. I'm an honest drunk. I say what I mean regardless of sobriety. The fact is, I am disappointed in all here. I thought to build a better CN. This same meaningless pettyness has left me disheartened for what I hoped to accomplish, what I hoped would be a future that was better for all of us. One where wars were not some pent up agression from prior months/years. Where EZI/PZI was a thing of the past and player mobility was something that was not only expected but demanded of by all sides, by all colors, by all alliances. Where this game was how it was originally intended as something that was fun. Sadly, I have failed in that aspect. And yes, for those who will quote me saying "this is my last post" in regards to my previous post, screw you. I have a multitude of thoughts, feelings, and general pangs for a game that has for the past year or so engaged me, entertained me, and allowed me to meet aquaintences of all sorts, but is no longer what it originally was. I have failed you, just as much as WE have failed the game. The fact that we need to differentiate between OOC/IC attacks is evidence enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiphosis Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 So your problem with GOD and SF is that they aren't the GPA or TDO? Seriously? Maybe if GPA had violated the NPO they wouldn't have lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 "Don't nuke us and we won't nuke you."Ring a bell? So a "no-first strike" nuke policy is immoral now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogeWilliam Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 what does this have to do with TOP's nuke policy If you are an alliance, and you are assured victory, your next concern is minimizing losses? I'm sorry. I am a nub nation with no nukes. But, I find it odd that one alliance would ask another to take a "nuclear bullet" for them. We aren't secret service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micheal Malone Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 I'm an honest drunk. I say what I mean regardless of sobriety. The fact is, I am disappointed in all here. I thought to build a better CN. This same meaningless pettyness has left me disheartened for what I hoped to accomplish, what I hoped would be a future that was better for all of us. One where wars were not some pent up agression from prior months/years. Where EZI/PZI was a thing of the past and player mobility was something that was not only expected but demanded of by all sides, by all colors, by all alliances. Where this game was how it was originally intended as something that was fun. Sadly, I have failed in that aspect. And yes, for those who will quote me saying "this is my last post" in regards to my previous post, screw you. I have a multitude of thoughts, feelings, and general pangs for a game that has for the past year or so engaged me, entertained me, and allowed me to meet aquaintences of all sorts, but is no longer what it originally was. I have failed you, just as much as WE have failed the game. The fact that we need to differentiate between OOC/IC attacks is evidence enough for me. There will be many who agree with you, and there are quite a few who still have fun playing the game. There will also be those who are just as disheartened by the conduct as you. However, taking things as they are, you should take light the fact that people feel the ability to speak their mind once more instead of resorting to backroom slandering. It will hopefully lead to a more eventful future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruthenia Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 If you are an alliance, and you are assured victory, your next concern is minimizing losses? I'm sorry. I am a nub nation with no nukes. But, I find it odd that one alliance would ask another to take a "nuclear bullet" for them. We aren't secret service. If you're unwilling to take a bullet for an alliance why are you in a war with them in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogeWilliam Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 If you're unwilling to take a bullet for an alliance why are you in a war with them in the first place? Is that a serious question? The concern of war is to defeat the enemy. TOP contributed to that like other alliances. Never has war been about minimizing the losses of an ally. We are allies, not family. I have absolutely no ill will towards any alliance TBH. I really don't. But, warfare is simply not waged on terms of "looking out" for loosely tied allies. If you wanted TOP to try its damndest to minimize your losses, perhaps we could have merged and thus I would be protecting a fellow alliance member? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proko Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 (edited) The information I received about the reps initially came from LM. The size of the reps alongside the nature of those peace discussions got me frustrated and angry over how IRON was being treated. My emotions boiled over onto the OWF, however, I don't believe my post were even in the slight bit disrespectful. I was going off the information provided by a trust worthy friend and ally but I will nevertheless stick to my word. I said that you asked for 9bil/100k tech during negotiations and that if I was wrong I would apologize. I'm a man of my word. Let's assume that these rumored reparations from Ragnarok are true. 9bil/100k in reparations from IRON, in a narrow view the aggressor, to be paid to Ragnarok, in a narrow view the defender. IRON has, currently, 558 nations, which together have at least 2790 aid slots, assuming all nations have foreign ministries and no nations have a Disaster Relief Agency. Of course, some of these nations do not have foreign ministries and many more have DRAs. TOP and its coalition submitted to Polaris an initial peace term that was 100k tech (the same amount of technology) for 27 nations, those that had remained in peace mode throughout the war. This is a total of 162 aid slots, assuming that all nations have both foreign ministries and Disaster Relief Agencies. Of course, not all of these nations had DRAs. Given 100% collaboration (which they did not have), Polaris should be able to pay off their reps in 131 days. Given 100% collaboration, IRON should be able to pay off their reps in 11 Days (Two cycles), if they double tech and cash, which, if I'm not mistaken, they were required to anyway. Nearly all of the reparations would be paid on the first day, however. I can assure you with total sincerity that I stand right behind you when you express your frustration at those ridiculous terms. EDIT: Mixed up harbors and foreign ministries. It has been so long since I have bought economic improvements. Edited May 30, 2009 by Proko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogeWilliam Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 Well reparation amounts are rather moot now that they have been decided. Though, if we are to talk about it, we'd inevitably get to the problem of liability. Do you believe there is a difference between IRON and NPO? Who is this coined "karma war" about? IRON lost a war, thus reps are usually paid. Considering they aren't the actual target of this war(am I right?) is it so strange that the reps are small compared to say...later reps for certain alliances? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hizzy Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 Let's assume that these rumored reparations from Ragnarok are true. 9bil/100k in reparations from IRON, in a narrow view the aggressor, to be paid to Ragnarok, in a narrow view the defender. IRON has, currently, 558 nations, which together have at least 2790 aid slots, assuming all nations have foreign ministries and no nations have a Disaster Relief Agency. Of course, some of these nations do not have foreign ministries and many more have DRAs. TOP and its coalition submitted to Polaris an initial peace term that was 100k tech (the same amount of technology) for 27 nations, those that had remained in peace mode throughout the war. This is a total of 162 aid slots, assuming that all nations have both foreign ministries and Disaster Relief Agencies. Of course, not all of these nations had DRAs. Given 100% collaboration (which they did not have), Polaris should be able to pay off their reps in 131 days. Given 100% collaboration, IRON should be able to pay off their reps in 11 Days (Two cycles), if they double tech and cash, which, if I'm not mistaken, they were required to anyway. Nearly all of the reparations would be paid on the first day, however. I can assure you with total sincerity that I stand right behind you when you express your frustration at those ridiculous terms. EDIT: Mixed up harbors and foreign ministries. It has been so long since I have bought economic improvements. A round of applause to you, good sir. I'm even standing as I reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hizzy Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 (edited) Well reparation amounts are rather moot now that they have been decided. Though, if we are to talk about it, we'd inevitably get to the problem of liability. Do you believe there is a difference between IRON and NPO? Who is this coined "karma war" about? IRON lost a war, thus reps are usually paid. Considering they aren't the actual target of this war(am I right?) is it so strange that the reps are small compared to say...later reps for certain alliances? The Karma war is not about NPO or IRON. It is about defending OV. NPO declared an aggressive war on OV, and IRON supported them. Karma did not "target" anyone. They came to us. edit: sorry for the double post, this one came up while I was typing the previous. Edited May 30, 2009 by hizzy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petrovich4 Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 Thank you to RoK and LM for clearing this up on page 1. It is unfortunate that this thread had to be made and luckily for everyone involved, RoK was smart enough to post this in the open, or else people will hold grudges and ill conceived notions of others that are unfounded. And this leads to wars....riiiight? (wink wink nudge nudge). If you are not directly involved, take whatever you hear with a grain of salt, even if it comes from friends/allies. Respectful Communication is key and many members have forgotten that. As for everyone else, remind yourselves that certain people want to get a rise out of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogeWilliam Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 (edited) The Karma war is not about NPO or IRON. It is about defending OV.NPO declared an aggressive war on OV, and IRON supported them. Karma did not "target" anyone. They came to us. edit: sorry for the double post, this one came up while I was typing the previous. Technically you are right. But I think we all know the deal as well. It would be silly for NPO to get away from this as only a repulsed attacker. I do not think it is silly for IRON to get lenient terms as they did. Not to stress the past, but movement such as Vox Populli and karma as a whole stressed the "goodness" of the Karma side. Fighting for a better world. A nicer world. We all know that's propaganda. But, in order for propaganda to work you have to follow through to some degree. Given that there's really no reason to crush Iron through reps but simple greediness, its actually a good move to let them off easily so you can save up the heavy !@#$ for the real enemy. Especially as IRON didn't really want to fight. Edited May 30, 2009 by DogeWilliam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrideAssassin Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 The Karma war is not about NPO or IRON. It is about defending OV. NPO declared an aggressive war on OV, and IRON supported them. Karma did not "target" anyone. They came to us. edit: sorry for the double post, this one came up while I was typing the previous. Apologies for keeping this monstrosity of a comm alive... really folks, it's dead, let it RIP... In response to this particular comment: The "Karma" war is so vague it has no purpose. And every purpose. It slices the bread and toasts BOTH sides, with lightning speed! And THAT'S NOT ALL! It ALSO milks cows and churns butter, with which it also BUTTERS your freshly toasted bread with FRESH CHURNED BUTTER! It diapers babies quickly and efficiently, no fuss, no muss, no problem! It cures cancer and smashes viruses into a thing of the past! Hell, I lost fifty pounds using the "Karma" War! Act now, and we'll throw in an Easy Tech Raid at no extra charge! We'll even pay the shipping! Operators are standing by! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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