Tired of the cult of personality

[Cortath]

/shrug

Come now, Cortath. Surely at this point you realize you're going to need to use a different method of message/damage control than what you've been using?

With Vox folk who know the way Pacifica operates so well contradicting you constantly, you gotta realize that with the loss of Pacifican credibility here, you're going to need to use a different tact to convince anyone, frankly.

*chuckles heartily*

It is good to see you again, Quaestor Chronorica.

I have nothing but facts. That General Bragg wishes to lie, I can do little to prevent.

[TehChron]

*chuckles heartily*

It is good to see you again, Quaestor Chronorica.

I have nothing but facts. That General Bragg wishes to lie, I can do little to prevent.

Hardly anyone here is doubting the man is an opportunist. But the image he conveys is confirming suspicouns en masse of how you folks operate. Any message man worth his salt would have abandoned attacking his character from the beginning and focused on the real threat his message represents.

Edited May 10, 2009 by ReturnOfChron

[Kzoppistan]

"The most violent conflicts in life come not from good versus evil, but by all groups who feel they are doing good- and disagree on how to do it."

[Haflinger]

Hardly anyone here is doubting the man is an opportunist. But the image he conveys is confirming suspicouns en masse of how you folks operate.

That's because he's just repeating the paranoid fantasies that have become so very, very popular here on the OWF.

[HeinousOne]

That's because he's just repeating the paranoid fantasies that have become so very, very popular here on the OWF.

I may be alot of things but I am not nor was I ever paranoid.

[Sal Paradise]

Given the Emperor had 400 infra last time I looked, I'd hope he's getting some rebuilding aid after the war.

He could always sell tech and get that sweet retirement bonus when he's done.

[Midkn1ght]

You have to admit, fighting seems stupid when your leaders are hiding.

Come on Logan, we all know it's a valid war tactic. Except when FAN, GATO, <insert 9+ other alliances here> do it to them. When it gets done to NPO they extort tech and install viceroys. When it gets done to Karma it's a valid war stagger tactic... they just never get around to getting out, and we're expected to give them white peace when a chunk of their gov hasn't "fought the war yet"

Surrendering during war is bad form, but if they yanked your forum access and weren't talking to you, I can't say I blame you. I do wonder what the moral is like to your average NPOer if it is indeed as bad as you say, with little communication and seeing so many hiding in peace. The first week, hey it's called a tactic to help stagger war declrations and come out swinging. 3 weeks later it's just called hiding.

[Haflinger]

The first week, hey it's called a tactic to help stagger war declrations and come out swinging. 3 weeks later it's just called hiding.

Has it ever occurred to you guys that some NPO nations have been able to escape to peace mode after fighting?

[tobiash]

Secondly, beats me why he didn't know why he was banned. If he asked me, I would have told him. He didn't ask me, and I don't know of him asking anyone else.

Thirdly, I think it's clear that we didn't "expect" Bragg to continue fighting after he was banned. He's a traitor. We don't expect traitors to fight for us.

You still have not given an answer to why he is a traitor!

1. He might have been a pain in the butt on your forum (I belive you on that one).

2. He had his access to the your forum removed without give him a reason (an in-game pm would have been fine)

3. He tries to get an answer to why his access was removed and got No answer!

4. He then makes this post (surrendering to karma), But had until that moment been fight the enemies of NPO.

He was cut of by the NPO and left to rot.

Please tell me what makes him a traitor or correct anything that I might have misunderstod!

[bart416]

Lets just hope not every single person that surrenders makes a thread like this cause really:

1. Stop assuming we really care

2. We already knew this type of things happened for the last 3 years...

Edited May 10, 2009 by bart416

[Midkn1ght]

Has it ever occurred to you guys that some NPO nations have been able to escape to peace mode after fighting?

Of course they had some. But when they had approaching 200 nations in peace within the first few days of fighting, obviously not many have "escaped to peace" And if they "escaped to peace" to say, collect outside of nuclear anarchy like many have done, why not come out?

[Stuka]

What I cannot determine is whether you are leaving for legitimate reasons (those you have provided are legitimate) or because you are sick of the war. The main problem in determining this is that NPO is an alliance full of opportunistic folk who I regard with contempt, and who are the same people who would leave when things get rough. The reasons you have provided are legitimate however, and as such, I can only congratulate you on your decision to leave that bunch.

Welcome to the civilized world of CyberNations.

[General Bragg]

NPO Applicant has taken a sharp drop recently if you look at its NS chart. I'd imagine that's contributed some. They're still sending out recruitment messages (or people haven't gotten the memo to stop, since I know a few rerolls that have gotten hit with them recently). It's doable for an alliance that is still statistically number one, especially if they don't bother bringing up politics to any of them.

FYI here is a recruitment letter sent out the first week of the Karma war

Subject: Join the New Pacific Order!

Message: Greetings from the New Pacific Order; CN’s largest alliance. We want to invite you to join us so that we may benefit from your skills and comradery. We offer much in return:

* A war-machine that can protect you and allow you to grow your nation. The flip-side: A chance to partake in wars where the NPO dominates via tactics, comradery, and exclusive tools.

* Help to grow your nation. Guides, tools, war-aid and more to look after you as you help us.

* Friendship. Our members are over 900. There will always be someone who shares your interests, is in your timezone, etc. With a large forum, active IRC channels, and voice chat...we’re connected.

* A radio station and much more! You could be a DJ, write for our newspaper, help diplomatically or concentrate on your war machine.

To join visit http://www.pacificorder.net and register. After answering questions from members you are given thorough training. The benefits start right away!

We want you.

Regards,

Ursarkar E Creed

And if I am such a lying no good, apparently I'm still worth a NPO senate vote

To: General Bragg From: Date:

Subject: Vote For Red Team Senate!

Message: Title: Red Senate Voting: Unyielding Resolve!

Red Team Brother,

I ask you as a Fellow Red Team comrade; Vote Stanger of stangerites, Millionario of Malone, or Kingdom of Dark of Kingdom of Dark, in the senate election.

The Red Team Senate has played an important role in helping the team stay united and safe. Its a place where we can build our simple nations into Superpowers in relative peace. Our current senators have protected us from rogue attacks and they make sure our trades stay secure. It is necessary for your nations continued prosperity on the red team to vote for one of them at every opening.

The Red Senate plays an important part in helping the team stay united to insure all Red Team Members are protected. If we do not choose to act, it maybe too late for the us and for our way of life. Our current senators have secured the gates but the darkness is approaching fast.

Vote Stanger, Millionario, or Kingdom of Dark.

For Peace, Strength, & Prosperity

History is written by the winners. Planet Bob is getting ready for its first history books not written by NPO (though I doubt this info will reach the lower ranks on their forums).

In the meantime I offer the Pacifcan post office this award on behalf of all of Planet Bob.

Edited May 10, 2009 by General Bragg

[Haflinger]

Of course they had some. But when they had approaching 200 nations in peace within the first few days of fighting, obviously not many have "escaped to peace" And if they "escaped to peace" to say, collect outside of nuclear anarchy like many have done, why not come out?

You do understand wave tactics, right?

They've been cycling nations in and out of peace mode. They actually have more nations in peace now than they did at the start of the war, when you guys were claiming they were all hiding in peace. (It was about 150 IIRC.)

[General Bragg]

For an alliance that lasted not quite a week in the KARMA war, Invicta and Haflinger sure do talk a good game. I mean I probably for more Karma nations in 3 weeks than Invicta did in one. Great way to negotiate a fast peace.

[Haflinger]

For an alliance that lasted not quite a week in the KARMA war, Invicta and Haflinger sure do talk a good game. I mean I probably for more Karma nations in 3 weeks than Invicta did in one. Great way to negotiate a fast peace.

Sigh.

You did read our terms of peace, right?

Or you could read this post by one of our opponents which says that we achieved our objectives.

[Vespassianus]

General Bragg. You are a traitor. You abandoned your alliance, just because they cannot aid you, than you wanted to fight against them.

You insult Haf, who foughtt a very hardly, but honorably with his alliance against multiple opponents and they remained loyal to their allies and to their friends and gained the respect of the enemy? It won't help you i'm sure.

Edited May 10, 2009 by Vespassianus

[Voxamerica]

Did the OP just godwin his own post in the very first line?

Indeed. And equated himself with someone who was later hanged for war crimes.

Edited May 10, 2009 by Voxamerica

[SoxNation]

Has it ever occurred to you guys that some NPO nations have been able to escape to peace mode after fighting?

thats not the leadership, they've been in war since is started and have left the meatshield of their alliance to fight... cowards

[General Bragg]

General Bragg. Your alliance abandoned you, and you want to fight against them.

You insult Haf, who fought very hardly at all, with his alliance against multiple opponents and they abandoned NPO before the first week ofthe war concluded. It won't help them i'm sure.

Fixed it for you.

[General Bragg]

thats not the leadership, they've been in war since is started and have left the meatshield of their alliance to fight... cowards

I whole heartedly endorse your statement of fact. It warms my heart stings.

Happy now Eye. PS how can it be spam when I'm the OP of this thread.

Edited May 11, 2009 by General Bragg

[jer]

Given the Emperor had 400 infra last time I looked, I'd hope he's getting some rebuilding aid after the war.

You deliberately missed his point and it's a see-through and pathetic way of responding to an arguement which you cannot counter. Next time just admit defeat and move on.

Edited May 10, 2009 by Aimee Mann

[Captain Fatbeard]

I am sure Karma will allow you to fight against those who exploited and oppressed you. I have realeased all of my POWs, so that they could fight for teh justice. GL HF, General.

[Kzoppistan]

His issue isn't that their losing. His issue is that he has realized that he was a meatshield. While the Pacifican Government sits in peace mode and watches the war from above, the Pacificans themselves are being pounded on all fronts. This particular member saw or felt that he was a pawn in their game, and did all he could do. He left.

Well, to be fair, keeping those who run the war out of harms way is a viable tactic. The era of Napoleonic wars, the US civil wars, the commander’s tent was a mile or so away from the action and they directed the war by viewing the battle through a spyglass and communicated by flags and runners. I would be less happy with that style, but find it understandable, if the "brains" of the operation stayed out of the main fight and directed the war. If the operations center is disrupted, it could have disasterous results on the alliance.

That said, it works, but there is no doubt it affects the morale of the whole. The best commanders in history that I can think of off the top of my head, (Patton, Alexander the Great, Caesar), all positioned themselves in the front or center and lead the troops into battle themselves. Leading from the front is one of the best styles of leadership. It has a powerful impact on troop morale. I remember sitting in the war headquarters and every time I heard a damage report by Duncan King, or Suvorov, or any of the major heads of government, it rallied to me to fight even harder. Since the leaders were taking the most damage, it made me resolved to go down fighting, too. While the war was relatively short, our opponents were fierce and the fight was vicious.

Though I would disagree with General Bragg’s decision to turn against his previous alliance, I have to commend his fighting 3 rounds of war non-stop. That kind of commitment deserves the same kind by his leaders and I can understand his resentment at such shabby treatment.

[tobiash]

I would like an answer to why he is call a traitor!

He did fight for his alliance for 2 week, then he had his forum access to the NPO-forum removed. He keep fighting for a week or so. While trying to get an answer to why he was cut of. And then and first then did he surrender. He might have been a pain in the butt but still!

If some one from NPO could tell us why he is labeled a traitor then I would be greatfull.

Edited May 10, 2009 by tobiash